A story. The pentagon says the Trump Campaign was warned. Its not disney world, it is arlington national cemetery and it should be respected. Tonight the controversy over the altercation at arlington cemetery. On the practical reality of political shockwaves from Donald Trumps latest indictment. Is the former president going to show up in court to file a plea with these new charges . Plus, as the Harriswalz Campaign looks for votes in the rural south, a republican nominee taps and antivax Conspiracy Theorist for his Transition Team and thats only half of it. And also cut the head off of a dead Beach Ball with a chainsaw and tied it to the roof of his car to take home. Good evening from New York, i am chris hayes. Were 69 days out from the president ial election and if there is one thing we know about Donald TrumpNo Matter where we are in the campaign, No Matter where the polls are up or down is that he is going to be exactly who he is, all the time every day No Matter what. Nothing ever seems to stick to him, at least not enough. He was just indicted all over again by another federal grand jury. He is celebrating an endorsement from a Suspected Whale Decapitate her. More on that later if that is confusing you. The scandal that has trump and his people scrambling for Cover Today has to do with the bizarre Photo Drop on monday in which he grinned and gave the Camera A thumbsup over the grave of a marine killed in afghanistan. The appearance was offputting enough, but Yesterday Npr reported Trump Campaign staff at arlington have actually gotten into an Altercation Withn a worker at the cemetery over r the helming among the graves of The Fallen. The Trump Campaign top spokesman downplayed the incident in a statement to Nbc News with a sort of typically meanspirited spin, saying for whatever reason an unnamed individual clearly suffered from a mental Health Episode and decided to block members of Trumps Team during a solemn p ceremony. Of course the worker had every reason, right . Arlington national cemetery suggested as much telling a reporter that followed the incident and adding in a statement, federal law prohibits Campaign Or Election related activities in national cemeteries to include photographers, content creators or any other persons in direct support of a partisan political candidates campaign. Arlington national cemetery reinforced and widely shared this law and its prohibitions with all participants. Trumps Cocampaign Manager told Nbc News that trump went to the cemetery to honor goldstar families. Not film a political campaign, he would never do that. J. D. Vance tried to play it off as a media created furor. You are acting like Donald Trump film the Tv Commercial at a gravesite. He was there providing emotional support to a lot of Brave Americans who lost Loved Ones they never should of lost and there happened to be a camera there. Oh, there happened to be a camera there. How stupid do you think we are . He was called to provide emotional support, a thing he does all the time away from the cameras. Looking back, i camera. Ra this is the Video Trump posted to Social Media that day. Oc we lost 13 great, great people. What a horrible thing it was. We didnt lose one person in 18 months and then they took over. The disaster. That is a Campaign Ad Film that arlington, obviously. Also, dozens of u. S. Service members died in action under Donald Trump. No ceremony for them. No ads. That is trump going to a Military Cemetery to film a video reminding viewers of u. S. Deaths during the Withdrawal Th from afghanistan, without mentioning that trump tied to joe bidens hands by agreeing to a Withdrawal Timeline Set by the taliban. The cameraman happened to be there, as j. D. Vance said. The thing is, Trump Wasnt even the only politician capitalizing off the visit. He was accompanied by republican governor spencer cox, a guy who said he would never vote for trump until he endorsed him and used photos of the event is solicited the event to solicit donations. He now says it was a mistake, a thing he will say about voting for trump in a few months probably. Trumps team of course, not admitting any mistakes. Instead weve got j. D. Vance, the member of the republican ticket with military experience, responding on the campaign trail. Can you tell us more about the altercation that happened at the arlington cemetery. It is amazing to me that you have apparently somebody at arlington cemetery, some Staff Member had a little disagreement with somebody and the media has turned this into a national news story. The families of these poor people who had their Loved Ones die three years ago, at abby gate, those 13 americans, a lot of them were there with the president. They invited him to be there and to support them. That is not an insult to the memories of their Loved Ones. They wanted Donald Trump there and thank god we have a president who stands with their veterans instead of one who runs away from them. This is important. It is true trump was invited by some of those Family Members who trump has been talking to, but this is a really important point. He was not invited by all the families of the 400,000 veterans and dependents who are buried at arlington who did not and cannot consent to be used as props and a backdrop by other bereaved families for this individual. That is why the prohibition exists. It is a complete prohibition. It does not matter. Beyond vance disparaging someone who works at arlington national cemetery for enforcing the rules, is Donald Trump really a president who stands with veterans instead of runs away from them . Donald, i dont like losers, i like people who arent captured. He spent time attacking the parents of an Army Officer who died in iraq in 2004. Donald trump who has president fumbled the name of a fallen soldier in a condolence call with his widow and then is bickered with her. Donald trump who according to his own Chief Of Staff refused to pay respects at a Veterans Cemetery in europe, saying why should i go to that cemetery, it is filled with losers . And who on that same trip called the more than 1800 t marines who died suckers for getting killed. Or was it the Donald Trump who Hated Being Filmed or photographed with wounded veterans . A general chose a combat wounded soldier to sing God Bless America at the ceremony. Millie said afterward the president told him, why do you bring people like that here . No one wants to see that, the wounded. If you think all that is in the past it was just two weeks ago when Donald Trump used War Weary American Servicemembers as a punchline about how rough they all look to talk up one of his biggest political donors. I have to say, i watched sheldon sitting so proud in the White House when we gave miriam the president ial medal of freedom. That is the highest award you can get as a civilian. It is the equivalent of the congressional medal of honor, but a civilian version. It is actually much better because everyone gets the congressional medal of honor. Soldiers, they are either in ie very bad shape because theyve been hit so many times by bullets or they are dead. She gets it and she is a healthy, beautiful woman. See, they dont have those ugly scars or wounds or bullet marks. Shes beautiful, right . Isnt that awesome. Isnt that the highest one could hope for . You could be forgiven for looking at this and thinking trump only has respect for the most revered american institutions. When they are working for him. John allen is a senior national Politics Reporter for Nbc News and joins me now. Youve been reporting on the fallout from this. What have you got . Reporter we see the Trump Campaign playing this Down And Weve heard a little bit from the harris campaign. The spokesman went on cnn earlier today and said that this is set on trumps part, but there is a risk for trump. Given the things pointed out. There is a risk for trump that he takes the advantage he has had on the afghanistan withdrawal, something a lot of folks looked at as a failure or a botched mission under the Biden Watchword BidenharrisAdministration Watch and really undermine that with a story about trying to capitalize on it with a Photo Op at arlington national cemetery. It is not like these are clips that six months later got thrown into a Campaign Video. They were thrown in a Campaign Video within hours. Gn im sorry. Anyone asking us to pretend otherwise is asking us to pretend we are stupid. We obviously all understand what is going on. They sent a videographer to shoot the footage to make the video. The notion that this is anything other than what it looks like, when we can look at the images and the notion that there is this random arlington national Cemetery Employee who is now called deranged and has a target on their back. I worry about that person, frankly, who apparently was doing their job. The thumbs up, smiling photo and i think you mentioned this in your intro. There are gravestones and headstones of other deceased persons in the military who did not agree to be part of the filming and the photography and this is one of the reasons that there is this federal ban on doing this and just to be clear, the ban is on partisan political activity. Donald trump could show up and have photographs taken and not do partisan activity, but to your point you have to not believe your lying eyes to not believe that is exactly what went on here. Jon allen, thank you very much. Ben rhodes served as deputy national Security Adviser to president obama. They join me now. I know this is an annoying Thought Experiment and it even annoys me when i do it, but i will say if a democratic president ial candidate did this, it would just be one of those new cycles where the E Right would go anchors. They would go nuts. You would never hear The End of it. Youve worked on democratic campaigns. Rememberti that thing when bara obama was not putting his hand in thE Right place during the starspangled banner . This would be a constant news item. It is about the 10 Year Anniversary of the tan suit controversy, so it is a perfect moment. Combined we have probably issued hundreds of statements in our name on behalf of Barack Obama. This statement that suggests the unnamed individual is clearly suffering from a mental Health Episode, that was in response to a reported physical altercation at arlington national cemetery. It is not exactly a place where democratic activists are campaigning in the streets. It is a hallowed, not hollowed as their statement says, hallowed place where veterans who lost their lives that would be a fireable offense. So yes, this is not normal republican, democratic, any campaign at all that i have worked on were heard of. There is actually a deep and important point about this civic creed we all share, which is that there is a reason why there is no partisan activity allow their End Or Reason that it eadoesnt matter. Obviously it is better that the Family Members of some of the deceased Family Members invited trump, so he was there with them and he could have done whatever he wanted to, just without the cameras, obviously. But there is a reason which is that it is a shared space for everyone outside of and above partisan politics and it is just disgusting to draft The Fallen into your political campaign. There is a headstone of someone who just happened to be by him in the grave site. And you know, chris, when we were in the White House, Barack Obama went to arlington, but also specifically to section 60. That is where trump was giving the thumbs up like he was meeting with a Constituency Group sitting in the Oval Office with a smile on his face. Section 60 is where veterans of the post9 11 wars are laid to rest. Therefore it is a particularly potent place. Because of the nature of the wars. The freshness of the loss for families and often times Barack Obama would do events that had a lot of press. Not in a campaign capacity, but as president , speaking on Memorial Day or speaking on Veterans Day in front of the tomb of the unknown soldier. Often times would more quietly walk the grounds of section 60, because it was the furthest thing from politics. You did not want to go there at all when you were paying respects to young people who just recently laid down their lives and the absurd thing about this when this happened, Donald Trump had a staffer who got into a physical altercation with someone at Arlington Li national cemetery while filming a Campaign Ad and it is not even the most outrageous thing he has done involving a Military Cemetery. Obviously we have been here before. Do we really want to go through all of this again . Do we really want to deal with him insulting veterans and insulting and breaking down these norms and politicizing the spaces . This is what people are tired of and that is why this is bigger than this issue. This is about whether we want to go back to this kind of stuff again. I have to say that i think the two of you would say the same. What happened at Abby Gait was horrifying. Everything around those anguished weeks. You know, for Family Members that suffered trauma, no one Big Red just them feeling how they want to feel about politics or who they are angry at. I have no issue with that and whoever they want to invite. The point is above that because it is about this basic thing of what we together do as a society and what is sort of off limits for this kind of activity. I think, too, there is this return to form. Not that he ever left, but here is the trump repost just today and again i think that because it is on this weird social Media Site no one reads, it helps them. Because it is the perfect thing where he can blow off steam and no one sees it. Basically calling how to actually fix the system which calls everyone from fauci to biden to bill gates, randomly, in orange jumpsuits. That you should repost if you want public Military Tribunals with a picture of Barack Obama. Prosecute Jack Smith and indict the January 6 committee for sedition. That is pretty straightforward fascist propaganda coming from one of the two major candidates. No question and i think to bens larger point, sometimes we forget in the age of trump that we have all lived in for over a decade now, that there are some things that democrats and republicans have long agreed upon. Right . Defending the rule of law. Defending our nations veterans and the men and women who serve and treating them with honor. On making sure we talk about values and Human Rights values overseas and talking about making sure we are defending entries from invading other countries and their sovereign territory. Even much smaller, defending our democracy. That trump ha