Transcripts For MSNBC Deadline White House 20240906

Hi, everyone. Its 4 00 in new york. Its becoming the Noahs Ark of american politics. Passengers climb on board two by two including Alexandria Ocasiocortez and Bernie Sanders as well as Adam Kinzinger and the former number three House Republican with the last name practically synonymous with what the conservative republican party in its most strictly conservative It Ration used to be all about. All of them now in the same boat to save democracy from a disgraced, twiceimpeached expresident with the fondness for dictators abroad and a yearning to be one right here at home in america. All this critical Post Labor Day juncture in the 2024 campaign, Conservative Stall Worth Vice Chair Liz cheney announcing she will vote for Vice President Kamala Harris for president. Heres that moment. I think it is crucially important for people to recognize not only is what i just said about the danger that trump poses something that should prevent people from voting from for him, but i dont think we have the luxury of writing in candidates names, particularly in Swing States. And as somebody who believes in and cares about constitution, i have thought deeply about this. Because of the danger, not only am i not voting for Donald Trump, but i will be voting for Kamala Harris. The Harris Campaign responding to that moment, that endorsement saying, quote, the Vice President is proud to have earned congresswoman cheneys vote. Shes a patriot who puts our Democracy And Constitution first. For any american who is looking to reject the Chaos And Division of Donald Trump, turn the page, and pursue a new way forward that protects our freedoms and defends the american values we all believe in, there is a place for you in the Harriswalz Coalition, and we will continue working to earn your support. Liz cheney adding her high Profile Name to a growing list of current and former republicans. The assessment of the stakes of this election have led to one inescapable conclusion. Their support for the president ial nominee. Who supported and in 2020, her Breaking Point was, of course, the January 6th insurrection. Heres what she said on the eve of Trumps Trial in the u. S. Senate. What we already know does constitute the gravest violation of his Oath Of Office by any president in the history of the country. This is not something we can simply look past or pretend didnt happen or try to move on. It was comments like that that cost her her political career. Unlike just about all of her colleagues in the gop, who saw it the same way, who we know from Great Reporting and some hot mic moments clearly understood Donald Trumps Culpability And Role in inciting the deadly insurrection, they either didnt have the appetite to pay a political price or didnt have the courage to defy the expresident. But Liz Cheney helped drive the congressional investigation that uncovered so much of what we now know about the Trump Coup Plot and the cost of her own role in House Leadership and eventually her seat in congress. Be there, he instructed them. It will be wild. As you will see, this is a pivotal moment. This tweet initiated a chain of events, the Tweet Led to the planning for what occurred on January 6th, including by the proud boys, who ultimately led the invasion of the capitol and the violence on that day. His response was to say they can march to the capitol. Something to the effect of take the fing mags away. Let my people in. Donald trump made a purposeful choice to violate his Oath Of Office, to ignore the ongoing violence against law enforcement, to threaten our constitutional order. Theres no way to excuse that behavior. Whats politically important is that cheney becomes a really critical part of whats been coined by pollsters and political analysts of a Permission Structure for other voters who might see themselves in part of Liz Cheneys story and then go on to pull the Lever And Vote for Vice President Kamala Harris. Heres more of what was said at Duke University. I think that it is crucially important, and i would say especially to my fellow conservatives, that we think about the stakes and that we think about the extent to which we have a duty, a duty to put our country and our constitution above partisanship. We all have that duty and responsibility. A vote for Kamala Harris as an act of duty and patriotism, that coing from Liz Cheney s where we start today with some of our favorite experts and friends. Former Congressman David jolly is here. Plus political Strategist And Msnbc senior analyst Matt Dowd is here. We start with former select Committee Member Sdo lofgren of california. Your thoughts to Liz Cheneys endorsement of Kamala Harris yesterday. Im proud of liz. We worked very hard together on the January 6th committee. She and i are not the same politically. Shes a conservative republican. Im not. There are a lot of Policy Issues we dont agree on. One thing we do agree on is the Rule Of Law and protecting the constitution. And thats why we worked so hd on the January Ofth committee. Her statement is going to be important for a lot of people. She is so steeped in the republican party. I remember there were meetings that we would have and we were in a conference room. As we were sitting there, i looked on the wall and realized there was a picture of her father and the president on the wall. Thats her roots. She is so republican and that she would say the only way to honor our constitution is not just a not vote for trump, but to vote for the only real alternative, Kamala Harris, is significant. I think its brave on the part of liz. Once again, something i deeply respect about her. I love everything that youre saying. Its important to point out that i worked for her Father And George w. Bush. I was a squish. I was a squishy california republican. Matt dowd can attest to that. They were not. There were lots of instances where i was sort of viewed not distrustfully, but conservative skeptically. What seems to have developed, though, and really been punctuated by the Vice President s convention, especially that fourth night when she formally accepted the nomination, is that a vote for harris and all of these republican endorsers are making an argument that its the only patriotic thing to do. It is unpatriotic at this point, to support Donald Trump. What do you think about that coming from liz, who has the goods and the receipts because of her role on the select committee . I think its obviously true. And Adam Kinzinger spoke at the convention making the same point. Trump knew he lost the election. Hes actually just recently admitted that on a podcast. He summoned a mob to washington. He knew they were armed. He sent them to the capitol to overturn the election. I mean, what could be more unpatriotic than that. He wanted to overthrow the vote and up end our constitution. Theres no way to square that with the Rule Of Law and patriotism. As liz said in her statement, this is never happened before in american history, where we had a president Who Refsed to honor his oath in this way. For those who are focusing on Policy Issues, the Policy Issues can ultimately be solved. But if we dont have a democracy, theres no vehicle for solving them. So thats really whats at stake here. Matt, i want to show you more of what Liz Cheney had to say last night because shes her journey is strucktive. She cast a vote. He would go on to defy his defeat and she would lead the investigation with Congressman Thompson as the chair of that committee and with congresswoman lofgren, all of them working to reveal the evidence that doj seemed to have picked up with and run with in their own evidence. But she also outed the republican party. She described their dishonor as a stain that would live forever. Here is her private conversations who said if No One would have found out about it, they might have voted to impeach trump too. Just judging from my personal experience, many members would have voted to impeach if it had been a secret ballot. The private conversations that republicans have, often reflect the reality of the danger of trump, which in many ways, and i mean admittedly, im not in a lot of those private conversations anymore, but i think its really important point. To be in the situation where you recognize privately the threat that he poses, but rather than explain that to your constituents, explain it to voters, Tell The Truth about it, youre just crossing your fingers and hoping for the best. The way politics works is that you actually have to go and convince people. And so i dont think theres any excuse for people privately suggesting that and then publicly supporting them. This, to me, is the most underappreciated element of the death of the republican party, which she went on to say as well. That it used to feel if you were on Tv Calling Donald Trump a threat back in 2015 and 2016 you were crazy. That was a strategy. But what Liz Cheney helped out is that everyone saw the same thing. Mitch mcconnell, kevin mccarthy, Liz Cheney, they all saw the same thing. What made Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger different is that Liz Cheney had the courage to say it and was willing to pay the price of her own political career to do so. It is an amazing thing about liz. Its a disgusting thing about the republican party. Yeah. And its gutless, obviously, at the least its gutless. At the most its an upheaval of our constitutional order. Im amazed at this. I know liz like you know liz. I did Debate Prep with her back in 2004. You might have been the squishy californian, but i was the form former democrat from texas. So i wasnt much higher on the level the of conservative republicanism in that. That she actually she didnt say this, but she basically intimated this. That there is more room in the Harriswalz Coalition for principle conservatives than there are in the republican party. Think about that. She basically said, the coalition of Vice President harris and Governor Walz has more room for principled conservatives than the current republican party here. I think what liz has recognized, she voted for Donald Trump twice. She voted for Donald Trump in 2016 and 2020. Like many republicans, and a Dam Kinsing her for awhile thought the problem was Donald Trump. What i think they have discovered is Donald Trump was the proximate problem. He was the most apparent problem, but the problem ran much deeper because the republican base has moved into trumpism. Thats what she fundamentally now recognizes in this, and why it moved there is because not only did the other republicans not stand up to Donald Trump, what they did was they ampliied lies of Donald Trump to the base. So they had a point in time, i think, where they could have dealt with this by telling The Truth to their voters. They didnt. By not telling The Truth to their own voters, they allowed this to grow like a virus. And the virus is now grown because of the untruths that were told by other republicans, not just Donald Trump. When that happens, they created this monster that, in my fear, even if hes defeated this year, and its a great step towards democracy, theres still a ton of work left because 40 of the country now believesing the lies that Donald Trump have told them. Which as the congresswoman alluded to, Donald Trump doesnt believe. We know that Donald Trump knows they are lies. He admitted on tape this week that he lost the election by a hair or a whisker, i dont remember what he said about it. So what they reveal is the fools that Mcconnell And Mccarthy and all these republicans make of the republican voter. They are doing it in the front of the faces of mccarthy and others. I take a little nuanced view of the Cheney Endorsement and kinzinger endorsement, but its as hugely impactful. What i mean by that is i think since 16, theres been a lot of different lanes working adjacent to beat Donald Trump. The widest was the democratic party, who opposed him. But as early as 15 and 16, republicans said no to trump for his racist immigration language, for access hollywood, for flaunting the Rule Of Law, i can shoot somebody on 5th avenue. That was one lane working within itself. There were others that had personal fitness reasons to oppose him. There were some with specific ideological reasons related to fiscal responsibility. But Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger really defended trumpism for four years. As you mentioned in the read, Liz Cheney voted for him in 16, despite the muslim Ban And Access hollywood. She voted for him again in 2020. Weve got to get rid of Donald Trump. Liz cheney sald im voting for Donald Trump. She voted against the first impeachment. She called it a sham and a waste of time. And she is not even at Duke University saying, you know, we should give a second look on the Economy And Housing and infrastructure. Shes in a very narrow way saying that Donald Trump is dangerous to our country and to our democracy. Among all those adjacent lanes since 2016, thats a powerful lane. Simply has said Donald Trump is antidemocratic. Hes authoritarian. Hes willing to coddle dictators. Hes willing to trample on the right to vote and the individual franchise. Hes willing to trample on minority political coalitions. Hes willing to abuse office. Hes dangerous. Hes willing to use violence on January 6th. It was not until January 6th when Liz Cheney said, okay, i have had enough. There are a lot of americans in exactly that position, who actually today are not enthusiastic about Kamala Harris, but who see Donald Trump as a pure, Clear And Present Danger to the united states. Those words, however narrow that lane might be, its an incredibly powerful one to hear Liz Cheneys Voice Yesterday say its not enough simply to oppose Donald Trump. We do have to vote for the democratic nominee. That nominee is Vice President harris and cheney is with her. Congresswoman, i want to ask you to speak to this. It is a fetement normal non. And Vice President harris has been this partner. She elevated Adam Kinzinger to speak at the convention. She elevated lifelong republican jeff duncan. She elevated olivia troy. I wonder what you make of her i have to say i think all these people would have been there for President Biden as well, but this ticket seems to understand that if their message is we will be a president for all americans, that it is important to make this partnership and this Coalition Something in full view for everyone. How does that land in the democratic party . I think its very well received. When the Lieutenant Governor spoke, and i thought he spoke so powerfully, i was thinking and the person next to me whispered, he is really brave. Hes going to get Death Threats for speaking The Truth. People who are brave enough to stand up, Tell The Truth, defend Democracy Need to be embraced. And they have been. Which is very diverse, as you know. All the the way from people who are conservative democrats who look more like the Republicans Offiester year to people at the other end of the Spectrum And Everything in between. All of that spectrum is very welcoming to those who want to say no to Donald Trump. Lets put Kamala Harris in the White House. Well resolve these Policy Differences somehow, but you can only do it if you have a democracy as a vehicle to do that. Its the really a tribute to the strength of the democratic party. And it is a confident and healthy party that showCases members of the other party. Its an important point to end on. Congresswoman, thank you for starting us off. Everyone else sticks around. We have much more reporting on what this endorsement means in the Swing States for Vice President Kamala Harris. Plus still ahead for us, the debate Donald Trump has been aggressively working to avoid participating in has now been officially set and locked in. His campaign got everything they were asking for. Did that quiet him down, no. Hes continuing to shout as loud as he can into the wind. And later in the broadcast, one of the nominees for president of the united States Today was arraigned on federal charges over efforts to overturn the last president ial election just two months before election day. The judge in that Case again trying to schedule a trial. The very latest on that and more when deadline White House continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. S after a qui. Dont go anywhere. My little miracle is beckett. A Thousand Years by Christina Perri i have died every day waiting for you we wouldnt be where we are without saint jude. And in turn, we wouldnt be where we are without those people that have donated. voya there are some things that work better together. Like your workplace benefits and retirement savings. Voya helps you choose the right amounts without over or under investing. So you can feel confident in your financial choices voya, well planned, well invested, well protected. Pete g. Writes, my tween wants a new phone. How do i not break the bank . We gotcha, pete. Xfinity mobile was designed to save you money and gives you access to wifi speeds up to a gig. So you get high speeds for low prices. Better than getting low speeds for high prices. Right, bruce . Jealous . Yeah, look at that. Honestly, someone get a helmet on this guy. Get a free unlimited line for a year when you buy one unlimited line. Plus, get up to 800 off Google Pixel 9 phones. Switch today i have a confession to make. Im a lifelong republican. I feel a little out of place tonight, but i feel more at home here than in todays republican party. They have been kidnapped by extriemst and devolved into a cult. I have learned something about my party too. Something i couldnt ignore. The republican party is no longer conservative. It has switched its allegiance from the priniples that gave it purpose to a man whose only purpose is himself. Donald trump is a weak man pretending to be strong. He is a small man pretending to be big. Hes a faithless man pretending to be righteous. Hes a perpetrator who cant stop playing the victim. Let me be clear to my republican friends at home watching. If you vote for Kamala Harris in 2024 youre not a democrat, youre a patriot. Joining our coverage, chief political column national Affairs Analyst John Heilemann is here. John, i just jotted down a list of names. Cheney, mccain, pence, if you came down from earth and had been asleep for eight years and saw that they were endorsing Kamala Harris for president , youd think you hit your head on the way back into orbit. What point does the Conversation Shift to theres no party to leave, they are simply doing the patriotic thing which was the argument made there explicitly by the republican endorsements of Kamala Harris at the convention. To begin with, im pretty sure i hit my head any way. That actually happened for me in July Of 2015 when i saw Donald Trump come down the escalator. That was when i first hit my head and never really recovered from that. I think that i was totally engrossed in your Conversation Yesterday with Jeff Goldberg and some others on the show about the members of the military, generals in particular, who how much they could move their willingness of how far they could go or circumstances might speak out about trump. And i raise it only because the politics of those people are. Some are republicans, some of them are democrats. Even though some might find that surprising b there are many decorated generals who are members of the democratic party. They usually keep that to themselves as do the republicans, because this is part of their role. Liz cheney was the one we were waiting for in some sense. The question of when she would do what she did yesterday, if she would do what she did yesterday, how she would do what she did yesterday and what she would do going forward are important questions in an election thats going to be this close in where people who youre referring to when you say people who feel homeless now, people who feel in some ways i know how you do and have for a long time, which is that the party that they believed in has gone away and there is we are not really in a Twoparty System now. I dont think thats new, but i do think this election is bringing into sharp focus. Its been clear for a long time the republican party has been corrupted and botched to the point its no longer a real political party. Its a cult of personality. At that point, Liz Cheneys rationality and her reasoning for doing what she did and where it led her is unimpeachable on the grounds of reason if you believe the things she believes. There are a lot of republicans out there who whether shes the one who pushed them over the side or not, shes speaking a truth that a lot of former republicans need rings in their ears. I appreciate your comments about the coverage of the generals. It is, for me, trumps success is because hes disorienting. Hes so awful, he disorients the mind. In that Disorientation Or Trauma or however you experience trump, if you once were proud to be in the republican party, its how he benefits. So part of it is just reorienting yourself around saying up is up and down is down. It took a lot of republicans a long time to do that. One of the things that i can continue to find disorienting is how anyone, how Chris Christie or how they are not all backing Vice President harris, how she isnt juggling, romney, you cant go tomorrow because i have george bush tomorrow. You cant go tomorrow i have dick cheney tomorrow. Why arent they all there when the all the thetive is someone who hates not just the military, but the men and women who died in the military . Why are we i guess my question is why is this hard for any of them . I think to use the language of recovery, a lot of them havent hit bottom yet. I think there are a lot of republicans, and you can see this with the Case of some of the people you just cited, kinzinger and others, who might not even say the words im about to say. Which is that the republican party that they signed up for, the republican party of their youth and their middle age is no longer its not just what it was, that its become a house of repute in a lot of respects. I think the Mitt Romneys of the world dont believe that yet. When we talk about a cult of personality, im focused on the cult as much as the personality. And i think a lot of them are focused more on the personality than the cult. Thats to say they believe if we can be rid of Donald Trump. You saw this piece in politico where they hoped that trump loses in the Elite Parts of the party. They think if we can be rid of Donald Trump, maybe not immediately, but there will be a short path to back to normal. I think others like you look at this and go, the fact that this happened to the republican party suggests that this party will not find its way back to what it once was any time soon. The cult is as important as the personality to which the cult is enraptured. I might use a different word. Every one of the republicans still on the the sidelines saw a different threat very differently. Saw the threat of foreign terrorism, which christopher he called it and Ted Cruz agreed until He Unagreed on Tucker Carlsons show that it was domestic terrorism. All these people on the sidelines had a very different approach to the threat of foreign terrorism than they do the threat and the party that led to what christopher said led to dmesic terrorism. I wonder what you make of the inability to say what Liz Cheney said, that Donald Trump the judge was on the short list for Supreme Court for conservative President S. I wonder what you think keeps republicans from Say Whag they see. I want to remind everyone that even Joe Biden didnt see what we see today. He acted as if the republican party was some normalcy in it that was going to at some point return. It took him a couple years of his presidency if we dont recall that he finally understood what the republican the party had become and what isnt. Somebody as experienced as Joe Biden still thought there was some seblance of an existing republican party that one could deal with and grow or rejuvenate and create into something more. Yes, john is right to say its Recovery And Havent hit rock bottom. Thats true. I think its more like they are a person in a battered relationship that doesnt know how to see themselves outside of the battered relationship. That they think thats their only home. They think theres not something more out there for them to go to. They think this is what i know, this is the folks that i know, the staff people i know, the consultants i know, whatever. Even though im getting abused every day and even though my kids are getting kicked around and the dog is getting thrown against the wall and the the house is getting knocked down, this is a relationship i know even though its a battering, abusive relationship. And i think thats why its important what i think Vice President harris and Tim Walz are doing, which is trying to get those few people and open up a lane where they say, you have a home here. Its almost like putting them into a place where Spouzs Go when they are in an abusive relationship and theres a safe place to go to where they can get taken care of if somebody will talk to them that the democrats wont just abuse them. I think theres fear by some republicans that if they leave, then the democratic party is not going to welcome them, its not going to treat them well. Its going to treat them like a pariah. I know some of us on here, david probably has, there was a time when if you left the republicans and said enough is enough, Donald Trump is horrible, there was many democrats who werent receptive and welcome you on the team. Thats not what Vice President harris and walz are doing, which is much different, i think, and allows republicans in abusive relationship to find a new home. No one is going anywhere. I need to bring david in. Were also going to deal next with what may be the only Face To Face Debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. Well look at how badly the republican nominee is trying to not be a part of this, next. A. All my stresses just melt away. I hear that. This Bad Boy can fix anything. Yep, tough day at work, nice cruise will sort you right out. When im riding, im not even thinking about my painful cavity. Well, you shouldnt ignore that. And every time i get stressed about having to pay my bills, i just hop on the bike, man. Oh, Come On, man, you got to pay your bills. You dont have to worry about anything when youre protected by americas numberone motorcycle insurer. Well, you definitely do. Those things arent related, so. Ah, yee oh, that is a vibrating pain. Have you ever considered getting a walkin tub . Well, look no further Safe Steps best offer, just got better now, when you purchase your brand new Safe Step walkin tub, youll receive a free Shower Package. Yes, a free Shower Package and if you Call Today, youll also receive 15 off your entire order. Now you can enjoy the best of both worlds the therapeutic benefits of a warm, soothing bath that can help increase mobility, relieve pain, boost energy, and even improve sleep or, if you prefer, you can take a refreshing shower. Allinone Product Call now to receive a free Shower Package Plus 15 off your brand new Safe Step walkin tub. Only Purples Gel flex grid passes the raw egg test. No other mattress cradles your body and simultaneously supports your spine. Memory foam doesnt come close. Get your best sleep guaranteed. Save up to 1,000 during our labor day sale. Visit purple. Com or a store near you. in atrocious french Au Revoir mon amour. A bientot lets work on that french, shall we . Au Revoir mon amour. A bientot in Perfect French Au Revoir mon amour. A bientot you founded your Kayak Company because you love the ocean not spreadsheets. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. Indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. Visit indeed. Com hire five days from today, tonight, Vice President Kamala Harris and expresident Donald Trump will come Face To face with the first time, perhaps the only time on a Debate Stage in philadelphia. The Trump Campaign agreed to the rules set out by Abc News. Abc news is hosting this debate. It will mirror the June Debate between Trump And President biden. The microphones will be muted. So with everything locked in now, all thats left is for Donald Trump, as he has done so many times before every Debate Torks spend the next five tas moving the goalpost, lowering expectations for himself, attacking the media. He did it last night in a Sean Hannity Safe Space attacking the network over the debate he agreed to. David jolly, i think its a Shrinking Audience thats following the thread on all of trumps zigging and zagging on the debate. The Bottom Line is trump knows he benefits from his ranting and raving, or if he doesnt, his campaign knows he benefits. But i dont think it hurts hairs either way. I think this is such i dont want to set expectations in a false place for her either, but such an advantage to her in this setting in particular. Sure. Im not sure this Debate Matter s to Donald Trump how Donald Trump performs in this debate really matters. We kind of know who he is. The country knows who he is. Well see him angry and insulting and, in many ways, thats baked into the american peoples minds. Americans will look to take a measure of the Vice President. It may actually be less about her exchanges with Donald Trump. We remember the Hillary Clinton exchanges and the Joe Biden exchanges with Donald Trump. Again, the angry, borish Donald Trump. But it may come in exchange with the moderators. To see serious pushing like well see in interviews with the Vice President. Did you have a role in the planning from the withdrawal of afghanistan. What was your role when it comes to the economy or certain decisions of the biden administration. Less what she answer, than how she engages. And certainly her Strength And Capacity to deal with Donald Trump. We have everything we have seen so far, shes going to hold a command on that stage and put Donald Trump in his place. And i think that contrast between the two candidates will play favorably. And harris, who shows Strength And Command and the ability to root for the country instead of rooting against it, those exchanges with the moderators, i do think matter. And thats where the american people will get to see Vice President harris in a way that they have seen Donald Trump before. They probably have already made a judgment of trump, but maybe not yet on harris. David, i have to get you to weigh in about this death of the republican party and how the Democratic Coalition absorbs as many voters as they can ahead of november. I think theres two things going on that are very important that we get right. I love this Conversation Both Heilemann and matt alluded to it with your conversation. I think that Cheney Endorsement, what We Saw in the democratic stage is an Inflection Point for the Voting Behavior of never trump republicans. Cheney and kinzinger and others werent there yet to pulling the lever for a democratic nominee. They are now. But they are not part of the coalition actually for todays democrats. They suggest they want to build for the next four years. You could see a cheney and harris back on an Rnc Stage supporting a Nikki Haley or a candidate like that should someone emerge. But i think what is so qualitatively different in 2024, we just got whispers of in 2020, the new Democratic Coalition is kind of americas coalition. A lot of the early nevertrump republicans are actually becoming soft democrats. That is where the power of this Harris Campaign and todays democratic party is harnessed. Its an opportunity during a Harris Administration to grow a Coalition And Move republicans to democratic registrants. The votes of everybody against Donald Trump matter. But the Cheney And Kinzinger votes may not be there, but a lot of these other republican voits might find themselves supporting the Democratic Coalition 28. Thats the power of this cycle under Vice President harris. I hear what youre saying. I have to sneak in a break. The reagan democrats. That was a whole group of people who voted for democrats for a generation. I think that the nevertrump republicans have become independents or democrats. I think youre right. Where theres some of these figures will not matter to this bloc. I do have to sneak in a break. Well be right back. A break. Well be right back. Its Book Club in the wayborhood, yall. Eddie this table. I got this At Wayfair after the last Book Club. Every Book Club should have this much shopping. What did everyone think of the chapter the right Area Rug for every budget . Ill say it, the section on washable rugs was thrilling. Thoughts, richard . The part about the floral rugs really spoke to me. [ sigh ] i want to know whos going to play the rug in the movie . Why is nobody discussing the Plot Twist . Wayfair ships fast and free. [ gasps ] wayfair. Every style. Every home. Children Speaking millions of children are fighting to survive due to inequality, conflict, poverty and the climate crisis. Save the children® is working alongside communities to provide a better life for children. And theres a way you can help. Please call or go online to give just 10 a month. Only 0. 33 a day. We urgently need 1000 new monthly donors in the next 30 days to help the children we support around the world. You can help provide food, medicine, care and protection, plus so much more that a child needs by calling right now and giving just 10 a month. All we need are 1000 monthly donors in the next 30 days. Please call or go online now with your monthly gift of just 10. Thanks to generous government grants, every dollar you give can have up to ten times the impact. And when you call with your credit card, we will send you this save the children® Tote Bag as a thank you for your support. Your small monthly donation of just 10 could be the reason a child in crisis survives. Please call or go online to givetosave. Org to help save lives. Your Shipping Manager left to find themself. leaving you lost. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. Indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. Visit indeed. Com hire were all back. Heilemann, theres something that i just want to air out. David jolly is right. This is an opportunity for Vice President harris to sort of showCase her ability to interact calmly and competently on things like the withdrawal from afghanistan with the moderators. But nobody would ever say that its that for trump, right . And take that specific policy. It was trumps decision to pull out of afghanistan. This is something going on with the scrutiny that the media is under in terms of the different standards for each side. What are your thoughts about that heading into the debate . Well, i think my thoughts are, first of all, David Jolly used a crucial word twice. Which is what i think in a lot of Cases debates come down to, which is command. And command, if you look back on the history of president ial debates, the specifics of Policy Arguments and even the specifics of zingers often is not whats remembered. The winners of debates are seen as those who projected a kind of command of the stage. I think in this debate, that will be much of the same. To your second point, i think the reality is No One in Kamala Harris campaign, in the Vice President s office, and i would say even in her family would suggest that she is as known a quantity to the average american voter or to the ordinary american voter as Donald Trump is at this point. I think there are times when the press applies a double standard. There are times when theres false equivalencies. Theres all those things. The reality of this campaign is that harris great Opportunity And Vulnerability is how relatively undefined she is and how relatively not well known she is with a great swath of voters. Thats why this debate is a huge opportunity for her. I, at least right now, think that part of the thing of being trump, and you mentioned this before, that even among people like You And Me and others on this show who have condemned trump in even among people like You And Me and others on this show who have condemned trump in every possible term, some of them polite terms, some profane, we dont expect Donald Trump to perform like a normal politician. Youre not measuring him in the same way as you measure a normal politician or that youll measure Vice President harris at the debate. Shes coming into this race late. She has things she needs to prove, but thats an enormous opportunity for her if she can do what she has dup in other debates in Senate Hearing rooms with Brett Kavanaugh and other people, if she can be that commanding figure shes been at her best in the past, theres a gargantuan amount of upside for her. Trump has no upside either. She has huge upside here. A good point in the broadcast to point out that our coverage of what were talking about, this debate between Vice President harris and exPresident Trump, perhaps the only debate, certainly the first one between these two will be hosted by Abc News. It begins at 7 00 p. M. Our coverage does. Well also be simulcasting the abc debate and look forward to you watching with us. Were going to give Matt Dowd the last word on that. Dont go anywhere. T. Dont go anywhere. And fifty dol. Only on verizon. Jalen Hurts see you sunday we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. You think those two have any idea . That they can sell their Life Insurance Policy for cash . So theyre basically sitting on a goldmine . I dont think they have a clue. Thats crazy well, not everyone knows coventrys helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. Even term policies. I cant believe theyre just sitting up there sitting on all this cash. If you own a Life Insurance Policy of 100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry. Even a term policy. For cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. Someone needs to tell them, that theyre sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea hey, guys youre sitting on a goldmine Come On, guys do you hear that . I dont hear anything anymore. Find out if youre sitting on a goldmine. Call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect. Com. My colleague, mike barnicle, recently said of Donald Trump, he is a, quote, damaged, delusional old man who again might get reelected to the presidency of the united states. What are your thoughts on the contrast, opportunities, and what role does the media have in making those contrasts clear as Debate Moderators . You spent a lot of years at bc news. Your thoughts on that . I look at it in two ways. How im going to look at the debate and a lot of the part of the american public is going to look at the debate, i agree with the idea that Donald Trump is not going to change his image no matter what he does. Its baked in. The people who love him love him for his Craziness And Chaos and all the things he does. The people which dislike, the majority of america, have their view on that as well. So i think command is right, but i think for me, is Donald Trump has really never outside of a courtroom, been held accountable in a real concerted way by the media, direct to him. Right . Somebody direct to him. He goes in his Safe Space, or he gets in front of a crowd, has a Press Conference, only picks the people he wants to pick, doesnt answer the questions. For me is how does Vice President harris hold him accountable at that debate without coming back, without coming across as, you know, too over the top, but holding him accountable. But i have him looking at not only the Vice President , im looking at the media because i think theres too often in the media who look at this like, okay, he says this, she says this. Lets let the voters decide in the course of this. I want Abc News and their moderators, David Muir and lynsey davis, to hold Donald Trump accountable. When he answers a question thats outlandish, yes, Vice President harris should say something, but im going to hold the moderators of the debate and Abc News just as accountable as Vice President harris because they have a role in preserving democracy too. I think thats where a lot of voters are. Well see if thats what debates have turned into. I think theres a big appetite for that. I appreciate those thoughts. My thanks to all of you. Just ahead for us, the January 6th Case'>Election Interference Case, Judge Tanya Chutkan says the indicted Nominees Campaign Schedule is not a factor in getting this Case back on track in her view. Well bring you that story next. Dont go anywhere. Good point. When youre feeling super hot or super not, its pedialyte. The 1 dr. Recommended brand for hydration. Mom wheres my homework . Mommy hey hun sometimes, you just need a moment. Selfcare has never been this easy. Gummy vitamins from nature made, the 1 pharmacist recommended Vitamin And Supplement brand. I took on perpetrators of all kinds. Predators who abused women. Fraudsters who ripped off consumers. Hear me when i say i know Donald Trumps type. Hi again, everybody. Its 5 00 in new york. It is so much more than part of Vice President Kamala Harris stump speech. It is The Truth. It is now over to the voters, the choice before voters in november is this. What she articulates between a former prosecutor who has pledged her life to upholding the Rule Of Law and on The Other Side, a man who has multiple criminal convictions in Cases pending against them. A man who thinks the law is something he specifically is immune from, a tool for him to weaponize against others. Here he is just a few hours ago. She and her party are censoring speech, weaponizing the Justice System and trying to throw their political opponents, me, in jail. This hasnt happened. I didnt do that to crooked hillary. I said that would be a terrible thing, wouldnt it . Putting the wife of the President Of The United States in jail. But they view it differently, i guess, nowadays but thats okay. And they always have to remember that two can play the game. He tried to put Hillary Clinton in jail. He tried. He will say anything. And it just underscores how the preservation of the Rule Of Law in america must be paramount consideration to every single voter in november. The comments from trump that we just played, they Come On a day that saw the first hearing in his criminal federal Case'>Election Interference Case in nearly a year. Thats because the Case has been put on hold, as the Supreme Court, which includes three of his handpicked nominees grapple with the question of absolute president ial immunity for president ial acts and cited that trump gave him more than he asked for. That led Judge Tanya Chutkan to hold a Hearing Today in which she made clear shes not including the upcoming election in her considerations about timing say, quote, i understand there is an election pending, she said to trumps lawyer, this court is not concerned with the electoral schedule. Thats nothing im going to consider, end quote. Judge chutkan did not set a trial date, but she did send out a schedule for briefing due dates that runs through october. Before all the discussions about timing, there was another piece of business, the arraignment of Donald Trump on the four counts hes charged with in the special counsels Superseding Indictment that came down last week. Trump pleaded not guilty. And even though he was not present at todays proceedings, we cannot ignore the fact that two months ahead of a president ial election, one of the two candidates had to be arraigned today on criminal charges having to do with his efforts to overturn the last election in which he lost. Hes also awaiting sentencing on the 34 counts he was convicted of In May in the hush money Case'>Election Interference Case. That judge, judge juan merchan, also pushed the Sentencing Date back once and well be watching to see if he pushes it back again. As for now, the expresident is set to be sentenced in a little less than two weeks. Thats where we start the hour with former top official for the department of justice, msnbc legal analyst, Andrew Weissmann is here. Plus, politico national Correspondent And Msnbc Contributor Betsy Woodruff swan is here. Whats so interesting in trumps comments about Hillary Clinton is that its not a denial of any of the crimes hes been charged with. His defense or his line is basically what it was to grabbing women between the legs. When youre president , they let you do it. What does it say that with that as his message hes basically running Neck And Neck with Vice President Kamala Harris . Hes farther behind her than he ever was ahead of Joe Biden, but theres still a whole bunch of people in this country that havent focused on this or are buying what hes selling. Yeah, so i dont know which of the two it is or whether its kind of a combination of both of them, or whether, i mean, its certainly no failing on your part, but whether the media has to make it absolutely clear that facts matter. And so when Donald Trump says, you know, i never tried to put Hillary Clinton in jail, and you need to know two can play that game, i havent, but two could play that game, lets go over the facts, and heres a shout out to my colleagues on just security. They listed all of the ways in which Donald Trump tried to prosecute his enemies. In explicit detail, including Hillary Clinton. And some people actually were investigated. Some people were actually prosecuted. But if you if you ask sort of what is the key distinction, facts matter. The President Of The United States doesnt get to say put this person in jail. The reason Hillary Clinton was not prosecutors is because there was no prosecutable Case. The reason Andy Mccabe was not prosecuted is because there was no prosecutable Case. They tried. Donald trump tried to do it. The reason that john durham, who brought two charges, was not successful is because two separate trial juries, thats 24 people, unanimously found that he had not met the burden of proof. He could not prove his Case. 24 people unanimously. Facts matter. And so the former president saying this ignores that this isnt just a question of hes saying i can do this. He did try to do it, and hes ignoring that in the Rule Of Law that separates our country from his beloved russia, where we had such devastating events happen this week in terms of what russia is trying to do to help him become president , which he is silent on, saying and denouncing, which any president or former president should be denouncing, is thats what separates us from countries like russia, which is that we have a Rule Of Law where facts and law matter. Andrew, what does it say to you that the audience for the facts is almost as fractured on partisan lines as the candidates themselves . I mean, i agree with you. Thats how i see the world. The Supreme Court not so much. They believe in absolute immunity for Anything Someone can claim as an official act, which is how trump framed all of his coup activity. Activity that even John Eastman knew was both unconstitutional and illegal. Came out in testimony for the 1 6 select committee. I ask you that in the spirit of Liz Cheneys rather historic endorsement of Kamala Harris today, saying that Donald Trump is such a threat to the Rule Of Law, to democracy, and to the constitution, to that document, that shes going to back the democratic nominee. So i do not have sort of a big Picture Answer to the problem of when i grew up, there were sort of three News Stations and everyone talks about Walter Cronkite as sort of a basic consensus, not uniform, but a general consensus on the facts, and then a Discussion And Debate about what to do about it. What are the implications. And good faith debate, you can even have really strong views one way or the other as to what should happen. Now obviously, that is exploded into many, many, many different avenues where people can get bite sized pieces. I do think that one way to deal with this is that all of us who participate in the media in various ways, and i hate to say im like a broken record, need to not cover adjectives and adverbs and make sure were doing our homework and digging deeper for the benefit of the audience. And that a story is not by the way, im not personalizing, i know im preaching to the choir with two incredible professionals, you know, keeping myself out of it with the two of you who are on, but its really speaking to people where you have done your homework and you go to the ground truth. And you go one layer deeper than Donald Trump today accused someone of being ugly and this person and that hes more handsome than the opposing candidate. And using adjectives as if its a story and not really digging deeper into facts and making sure we cover that. Obviously, there are News Organizations that will not do that, but i do think elevating the level of discussion on air, in print, on the radio, and making sure that all of us are going deeper in our coverage is a service we can help provide. I know thats not a panacea, but at least its something to try to get people to grapple with actual facts. And maybe just final point is im a longtime doj trial lawyer. And i have to say, you end up i think when you talk to all trial lawyers, we have deep faith in jurors. And we have seen jurors of all political stripes and types and persuasions really rise to the occasion and act out of principle, and i think most people in that setting really try to do that. And i feel like that is something that we have to try and emulate in a broader context than just a courtroom. Its an interesting sort of segue to the reporting on this. Can mean, betsy, youre steeped in the facts of this Case, and the facts have never been in a lot of dispute. They have become more we had more of them, right . He plans this coup in full view. But we learn from Cassidy Hutchinson that he wanted to take down the fing mags, let me people in. Theyre not here to hurt me. The reporting and the public acts were enhanced by the congressional investigation, and then of course, the crimes that the federal government charged Donald Trump with in the indictment probably reveal more than any. And the witnesses arent people like andrew or me or you. Theyre Mike Pence, theyre the lifetime White House people. All that stipulated, trump has made fools of his base by somehow painting this prosecution as political in nature. It feels like that could all Blow Up in his face. Cnn is reporting this hour that evidence in the January 6th Case against trump could be released before the election under this new schedule just announced in the last hour. Let me read from their reporting. Quote, Judge Chutkan has set a schedule in the federal Case'>Election Subversion Case against former President Trump that will allow prosecutors to release never before seen evidence such as Grand Jury transcripts ahead of the president ial election. Some of those individuals like Mike Pence could be the ones providing the evidence. This is not what they planned for or what they want. And this would indeed represent new information before the voters ahead of the election. In fact, this is the opposite of what trumps team wanted. Today in court, john lauro, one of trumps top defense attorneys, specifically said that one thing they were hoping for was that surprising or interesting new information about what happened around the time that trump tried to overturn the 2020 Election Results would stay under wraps because it could have an impact on the election. Judge chutkan soundly rejected that argument and said, actually, were doing the opposite. Were going to proceed as if this Election Wasnt happening. She basically said its not my problem your guy is running for president. Then in the Scheduling Order that just came out within the last hour, she includes deadlines that lead up to november 7th, two days after election day, the deadline for the Justice Department to file a very important motion showing some of the evidence they have to demonstrate that trump was acting in his personal capacity when he committed the crimes they alleged in the Superseding Indictment. The deadline for them to file that motion is september 26th. Now, it will be filed under seal. The judge is going to be able to determine when the seal would be lifted. But shes made clear in very explicit terms that shes not going to make that determination based on any electoral consequences. Shes very much moving forward independent of the political process, uninfluenced by the political process. Trump can complain as much as he want about federal prosecutors being infected by political calculations, but this is a judge saying politics is very far away from the decisions that i am making. Nicolle, January 6th is one of the most investigated events ever. I think we can all agree on that in terms of the amount of information thats been made available. But what we can now expect is that perhaps even more material that is not yet public could come to The Public Eye in the weeks before election day. If i could add one thing on the Point Andrew was making on Media Literacy and the environment we live in. Arguably in one way, this is the golden era for media consumption. The amount of journalism available for anyone for free, the amount, the breadth, the quality is just staggering. You could spend all day every day reading high Quality Journalism and not get through all of the fascinating material thats published. But one thing i think is really important is that people who are trying to keep track of these Cases both read high Quality Analysis but also read the underlying Court Documents. This Scheduling Order that were talking about, its available for free online. Media outlets reporting on it, including particularly politico, always link to these Court Documents. So people can see them for themselves and really try to get a sense of all the details, all the information that in prior decades would not have been readily available. Betsy, let me ask you this. Trump is admitting in recent interviews that he lost the election. And that its his right to interfere. Thats basically his argument before the Supreme Court, those were official acts. Is that part of his defense in the federal Case . Or is that part of his plan for 2024 . Its a good question. I have not heard him emphasizing the fact that he lost the 2020 election as a Forefront Key Argument in his criminal defense. The fact hes saying that now i believe to a conservative Media Personality or in sort of an informal interview, my guess is that that has more to do with him just hoping that there could be some sort of political benefit as part of his effort to tack to the middle on a host of issues where his very, very far right bona fides are deeply established. I have trouble seeing how that would be something that would be useful in court for him for a criminal defense, but his team has been willing to use all sorts of different strategies and emphasizes so i could be wrong about that. Is It Notable that he admits in this podcast he knows he lost . I think his word was by a hair or by a whisker. Yeah, i think its one of the first times hes said that publicly. Hes been adamant about saying the election was stolen, that democrats conspired and committed all sorts of nefarious acts to rob him of an election he won. I am not a Trump Completest for better or for worst, but i think this is one of if not the first times he explicitly conceded that he lost 2020 rather than that he was robbed of a victory in 2020. And just andrew, real quickly, whats the legal significance of trump admitting on the record in an interview in his own voice that he lost . Its either by a hair or by a whisker. Well, legally, its an admission if he thought he was going to go to trial, and if he loses the election and the Supreme Court doesnt do something to get rid of this Case, that its an admission. Its also could be juxtaposed, we lets not forget that he said about these criminal charges that he had dispositive proof that he was going to reveal to all of us that he in fact had won. And that there was fraud in the election. He said he had that proof. Remember, he was going to have a Press Conference about it. Now hes saying he lost. So of course, you can chalk that up to another lie, but in terms of in the court proceeding, all of that is evidence. All of that is whats called an admission of a defendant that can come in. What hes beenincredibly successful in doing is putting off that day of reckoning in every court other than the new York Trial court where obviously there is a potential sentencing coming up in just a couple weeks. Amazing. Betsy, thank you for starting us off. Andrew sticks around with us because when we come back, there are new details on the Breadth And Scope of russias meddling in the 2024 election season. As Putins Election Interference efforts ramp up, who the Justice Department is looking to prosecutor and how close it comes to the leaders of the current republican paparty. Later, New Reporting about how Ginni Thomas, the wife of supreme Court Justice Clarence thomas, cheered on right wing groups working to block Ethics Reform. The reporter behind that great reporter will be our guest. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. And even at 2 years. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a Vaccine Or Plan to. Liver problems may occur in crohns disease. Ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. Control is everything to me abbvie could help you save. Craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. So he sublet half his Real Estate office. [ Bird Squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. Megs moving company uses tmobile. So she scaled down her fleet to save money. And dons paying so much for at t, hes been waiting to update his equipment theres a smarter way to save. Comcast business mobile. You could save up to 70 on your wireless bill. So you dont have to compromise. Powering smarter savings. Powering possibilities. behind every Splenda Product is a mission. Helping millions of people reduce sugar from their diets. Now try a sweetener grown by u. S. Farmers. Introducing zerocalorie Splenda Stevia. At Splenda Stevia farms, our plants are sweetened by sunshine. Experience how great Splenda Stevia can be. Grown on our farm, enjoyed at your table. all right. Here we go. So i guess you put in Ten Rubles here and you get it back when you put the cart back. So its free but theres an incentive to return it and not just bring it to your homeless encampment. Russia is famous for its bread. Which is one thing i can assess pretty well. The low Carb Lifestyle has not swept russia. Thank heaven because look at that. Its fresh, too. Look at that. Come on. I thought that was a Grocery Store in russia is where Self Respect goes to die. We hope you were sitting down. Russia supermarkets have shopping carts, and wait for it, bread. Just for a moment, that ridiculousness, stick a pin in that because were going to start with what amounts to a meltdown happening right now up and down the ranks of conservative media like that. It started when the Justice Department yesterday announced indictments and sanctions associated with a russian Election Interference scheme specifically doj targeted two employees of the stateowned media network rt, federal prosecutors charge that among other things the pair funneled nearly 10 Million to a Tennessee Company, one that apparently agreed to lucrative contracts with prominent right wing influencers in the united states. An Nbc Review of charging documents, business records, and Social Media profiles indicates that the company unnamed in the indictment matches the description of what is called tenet media. They did not immediately respond to a request for comment, but we know who they partnered with, names you might not know but ones that rack up millions of views on Social Media. We should be clear, this rightwing influencers are adamant today in their statements they are denying any wrongdoing. They assert that theyre victims of deception. And the indictment backs up the idea that they had no idea where any of the money was coming from, but it does call to mind a phrase Hillary Clinton invoked back in february, quote, Useful Idiot, to describe none other than Tucker Carlson ahead of his interview with vladimir putin, which brings us back to where we started. While Tucker Carlson doesnt appear to have any involvement whatsoever in the alleged scheme, it does mention it does it is important to point out he gets a mention in the indictment. Because apparently when a producer at the Tennessee Company was asked to post that bizarre video we showed you in the supermarket with the carts and the bread, the producer suggested, quote, it just feels like overt schilling, end quote, but was told to, quote, put it out there anyway. Joining our coverage, pete strzok, also joining us, Dan Goldman of new york, and Andrew Weissmann is back with us. Let me ask you for your reaction to what was charged yesterday by doj. Well, look, it is the continuation of what We Saw in 2016, what russia tried to do in 2020. And now, its confirmation that russia is trying to once again meddle in our election. Our president ial election, and that its clear its trying to do so to support Donald Trump. Who should also be included in the category of at minimum a Useful Idiot for vladimir putin. But what is i think a little bit more disquieting to me at least, as someone who sits on this socalled weaponization of the federal Government Subcommittee in congress under jim jordans chairmanship, is that they have spent this entire congress attacking the government for trying to stop malign influencers like russia and using euphemisms like censorship and efforts to interfere in the first amendment. All so that they could pave the way for russia to do exactly what it has now been charged with doing and sanctioned for doing. And so im not making any allegations that they knew about any of this, but i certainly have been banging the drum that the point of this subcommittee was to chill the government from having any interactions with Social Media companies in order to stop Election Interference, and now we see exactly what were talking about when we talk about Election Interference. Let me show my viewers what it sounds like. This is Tim Poole on august 20th. This is psychotic. Ukraine is the enemy of this country. Ukraine is our enemy. Being funded by the democrats. I will stress again, one of the greatest enemies of our nation right now is ukraine. They are expanding this war. Dont get me wrong, i know, you have got criminal elements of the u. S. Government pushing them and guiding them and telling them what to do. Ukraine is now accused, a german war issued for blowing up the nord stream pipeline, triggering this conflict. Ukraine is the greatest threat to this nation and to the world. We should rescind all funding and financing, pull out all military support, and we should apologize to russia. So this is what Tim Poole said today. Quote, should these allegations prove true, i as well as the other personalities and commentators were deceived and are victims. I cannot speak for anyone else at the company as to what they do or to what they are instructioned. Quote, never at any point did anyone other than i have full Editorial Control of the show and the contents of the show are often apolitical. Pete, help us sift through all of this, the Useful Idiots, the content, and the charges. Well, i think its interesting to hear Tim Poole say that given he was making it looks like about 100,000 per weekly episode to put this out. Look, from a russian intelligence perspective, this sort of disinformation has been going on for decades. You know, seeking to find divisive issues within u. S. Society, seeking to advance strategic narratives for russia, which changed, what evolved for a comparatively low cost of 10 Million, russia was able to get ahold of a number of influencers with extensive reach, and you see laid out in the Court Documents the application for the Search Warrant talks about russian plans on how to target the hispanic u. S. Community, how to target the jewish american community. You have the fact that earlier i think it was this may, Tim Poole interviewed Donald Trump and they talked about the prospect of whether the war in ukraine would lead to World War iii and he got trump to state he would seriously considerassange. You have the republican nominee being interviewed by somebody being paid millions of dollars potentially by russian propagandists to advance a very clearly russian narrative. So thats whats going on. Again, if you look at the cost of one russian War Plane in ukraine thats between 40 and 50 million. What doj identified as a 10 Million effort. I have little doubt that russia right now is spending money in other areas in the media, in Social Media, potentially in congress and our political arena, and thats still going on, unfortunately, in my opinion. Andrew weissmann, i havent read all of project 2025, but i like you have read the Doj And Fbi section. And cant quote the whole thing, but i know that the Fbi Section describes reforms at the fbi because of the, quote, russia hoax. Do you have any doubt if trump is elected president again and implements the project 2025 plan for the Fbi And Doj that Cases like this, charges like this would have a very hard time Cases like this would have a hard time being made . Not just a hard time, they would not be made. Donald trump is transactional. The one thing that we know even from the 2016 investigation that pete was involved in and that i was involved in, is it was absolutely clear that Donald Trump wanted foreign assistance, and foreign assistance wanted to help him. That was absolutely clear, as We Saw in the charges that were just recently brought. This was an overt strategy by russia to have Donald Trump elected and to denigrate the democratic nominee. And because Donald Trump is transacle, his view is thats fine as long as its helping me. It is not a patriotic view, which is that foreign governments should not be interfering in our elections regardless of whether its helping or hurting republicans or democrats. Its not a party issue. It is a matter of patriotism to sort of paraphrase Liz Cheney. This isnt a question where we need to speculate about what would happen in a trump 2. 0 because we know that is exactly what he has said and done when he was president. We have a track record. So its absolutely clear that this is what would have happened, and finally, just a shout out to doj, because in 2016, you remember that the government got a lot of flack for not calling this out quickly enough because the concern was that it would be viewed as politicizing the election, and here, its really great that they took this action, including taking down the domains now and calling it out for what it is. And also putting out into the, as we just talked about in the prior segment and Betsy Woodruff Swan Pointed Out, you can see in Black And White exactly what is being done. So you can read for yourself the exact scheme. What you played which is so visceral, you can see that in Black And White and exactly what pete is talking about, targeting these swingitates, targeting hispanic communities, the jewish communities, groups they think will help in getting Donald Trump elected. Why . Because they want russia to win the war in ukraine. Thats the ultimate goal for why russia is doing this. And just to pull the political thread tighter, Donald Trump is a much better pet than Vice President harris. Andrew y know youre juggling a lot of things. Thank you for making time to be with us this hour. Pete and Congressman Goldman Stick around longer. Were going to continue this conversation on The Other Side. S conversation on The Other Side Vo Youve got your Sunday Obsession and we got you. Now with verizon, get nfl Sunday Ticket from Youtube Tv on us and get every outofmarket sunday game. Plus 800 off Samsung Galaxy z fold6. Only on verizon. Jalen Hurt see you sunday. Im amanda and ive struggled my whole life with my weight. I had some health issues which affected my hormones and my metabolism literally just crashed on me. Ive tried everything and starving myself just didnt work. I wanted to feel good and i needed to find something that could help me eat right and learn how to do it. The Golo Plan and release has given me back my metabolism and it means that i have the energy to live everyday how i want to thanks to golo. Our biggest challenge . Uncertainty. Hidden fees, surcharges. Who knows what to expect Turn Shipping to your advantage. Keep it simple. With clear, upfront pricing. With usps ground advantage®. Unitedhealthcare knows youve got your whole life ahead of you. Its nice to know youre free to focus on what matters, with reliable Medicare Coverage from unitedhealthcare. The united States Government wants us to believe that the russians are using republican Talking Points to interfere with the election. And if we see things online about dei or migrant crime or even record inflation, it could be russian propaganda. And anybody who emails this stuff around or says it on tv could be a russian agent. And should be under investigation. This Show Tonight has all the earmarks of russian propaganda. If you say so. Congressman Dan Goldman, what are they doing . Why are they what are they doing . Well, there are a lot of theys. I assume you mean the right wing media and the trumplicants. Look, this is an any means necessary type of republican party now. Donald trump has turned this into the party of him. And whatever is best for him is therefore best for the party and best for the country. And what fox is trying to do is get Donald Trump elected. And what the House Republicans are trying to do, and we see it now as they start these bogus investigations into Tim Walz and Kamala Harris so suddenly after they become the nominees for the democratic party, theyre initiating investigations through the official resources of congress. That is improper to use the official authority of congress for an electoral purpose, for a partisan purpose. But its all part of a broader scheme, nicolle, which is solely designed to chill whatever oversight there might be to promote propaganda, to promote disinformation, to promote lies that will have an impact and mostly in scaring the american people so that Donald Trump will win. And it is whether witting or unwitting and that remains to be seen for a lot of these people, it is clearly aligned with russias interests and the fact that Tim Poole would say that ukraine is the biggest enemy of the united states, a democratic country who was invaded by a dictator, vladimir putin, tells you everything you need to know about this republican party because up is down and down is up. Yeah, i mean, i guess, pete strzok, what i find so confounding is how quickly the republican leaders of John Mccain and for a While Lindsey Graham and Mitt Romney who Saw Russia for what it was led by a kgb agent, a murderous regime, an autocracy are now so willing to subvert our democracy and our allies in ukraine in service of russia. What is is it a shared mission, is it more than that . What are your ongoing questions about their fealty to russia over democratic leaders in this country . Well, i think its a function of Donald Trump. When you look at the republican party leadership, and their perspective on national security in general and russia in particular, it changed in 2016. And it remains changed until this day. I remember going up to brief congress in 2014 and 15, pretrump, and extraordinary support, it was typically bipartisan, but particularly from the republican side of the aisle on the House And Senate intel committees about being strong on russia, about supporting the emerging democracies around the world. Now with Donald Trump because of his strange affinity for dictators and putin in particular, you have the entire party willing to push aside the senator mccains and romneys and even traditionally a Defense Hawk like Senator Rubio who up until Donald Trump became the president , was a staunch supporter of the military, of the intelligence community. But i think, my sense is that this fever will not break in the republican party until Donald Trump is gone. Because as the congressman Pointed Out, Donald Trump is willing to take assistance from russia, from china, wherever it may come. And as long as thats his perspective, thats the perspective of the republican party. By extension, anyone who holds russia accountable threatens trump and the republican party. Its remarkable. Thank you so much. When we come back, the united states Supreme Court mired in an ethical crisis. It seems to get worse by the news cycle. Up next, New Reporting about what the wife of Justice Clarence thomas told a Rightwing Group working to prevent and stop and halt any effort at an acting ethical reform at the Supreme Court. Well bring you that next. Youll find them in cities, towns and suburbs all across america. Millions of americans who have Medicare And Medicaid but may be missing benefits they could really use. Extra benefits they may be eligible to receive at no extra cost. And if you have Medicare And Medicaid, you may be able to get extra benefits, too, through a Humana Medicare Advantage dualeligible special Needs Plan. Call now to see if theres a plan in your area and to see if you qualify. All of these plans include doctor, Hospital And Prescription drug coverage. Plus, something really special, the humana healthy options allowance. Your allowance. To help pay for essentials like eligible groceries, utilities and rent. Even overthecounter items. And whatever you dont spend gets carried over to the next month. Plus, with a Humana Medicare Advantage dualeligible special Needs Plan youll get other important benefits. All of these plans include dental coverage. With two free cleanings a year. Plus, fillings, and a yearly exam. Vision coverage, including Eye Exams and a yearly allowance for eye wear. And hearing benefits. Including Routine Hearing Exams and coverage toward hearing aids. Youll also get free rides to and from medical appointments. Best of all, youll Pay Nothing for covered prescriptions, even Brand Name ones, all year long. And Zero Dollars for many routine vaccines at innetwork retail pharmacies. Plus, youll have access to humanas large networks of doctors and specialists. So, if you have Medicare And Medicaid, call now to see if theres a plan in your area that will give you extra benefits, including an allowance to help pay for essentials. Plus, nocost for covered prescriptions. And coverage for routine dental, vision and hearing. A knowledgeable, licensed humana Sales Agent will explain your coverage options. And, if youre eligible, help you enroll over the phone. Its that easy Call Today and well also send this free guide. Humana. A more Human Way to healthcare. Limu emu doug. And if we win, we get to tell you how Liberty Mutual Customizes Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Isnt that what you just did . Service stand back im going to show ya, how doug and limu roll, yeah you know you got to live it, if you want to win. [bump] Time Out only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. A Binding Code of ethics is pretty standard for judges, so i guess the question is, is the Supreme Court any different . I guess i have not seen a persuasive reason as to why the court is different than the other courts. That was supreme Court Justice Ketanji brown jackson over the weekend responding to a question about the growing calls for a supreme Court Code of ethics, making the extremely reasonable point that the nations highest Court Shouldnt be held to a lower or different standard than any other members of the judiciary. Reasonable unless youre Ginni Thomas. The wife of embattled supreme Court Justice Clarence thomas, who appears to be enraged by the idea that she and her husband might have to stop getting away with freebies from shadowy rightwing billionaires. New reporting in propublica finds Ginni Thomas was so angered and distraught by the growing calls for the Supreme Court Ethics Reform that she allegedly emailed a far right christian organization thanking them for their advocacy and efforts against Court Reform. Writing in all caps this, quote, you guys have filled the sails of many judges. Can i just tell you thank you so, so, so much. The email was sent to Kelly Shackelford, the president of First Liberty, a far right religious organization, which has frequent business before the united states Supreme Court. Shackelford read Ginni Thomas all Caps Email aloud on a Phone Call in late july with the groups top donors. Where they also accused elena kagan, a sitting supreme Court Justice, of treason for backing Court Reform. Take a listen. That is incredible, somewhat treasonous, what kagan did. The Chief Justice rules the court. Theyre trying to keep the other branches Hands Off of them. Then you have kagan from the inside really being somewhat disloyal and somewhat treasonous in what shes doing. First liberty did not directly respond to propublicas questions about the Recording And Ginni thomas did not respond to propublicas repeated request for comment. Joining us, propublica investigative reporter andy krol. Wow is my first thought. My first question is, you know, its his voice on tape calling a supreme Court Justice treasonous. Is there any comment from Chief Justice roberts on this . Well, thanks for having me, nicolle. We havent heard anything out of the Supreme Court in response to this comment from Kelly Shackelford, who im glad you Pointed Out is someone who has brought Cases before the Supreme Court, who has won Cases before the Supreme Court, especially in front of this 63 conservative majority. And in public, i would add, he has talked about Court Reform on a podcast his group puts out there, but nowhere in public did he describe Justice Kagans comments or treasonous or disloyal, but in private on this donor call, invitational only donor call, this is the venue he chooses to call Justice Kagan treasonous, to talk about how Court Reform will destroy the unless of the judiciary. This very sort of fearmongering, sky is falling rhetoric when he is simply talking about proposals like an enforceable ethics cold, Term Limits for the court, or even this notion of a constitutional amendment overturning president ial immunity this decision from the Supreme Court last term. So this very sort of apocalyptic sort of rhetoric but only in the private setting coming from Kelly Shackelford. Let me read more about what his group, First Liberty, has before the Supreme Court. You report this, quote, in the last several years First Liberty has notched big victories. In june 2022, the Supreme Courts six conservatives ruled in favor of several families when it struck down the States Ban on using funds for public school. They ruled again in favor of a First Liberty plaintiff, a former Football Coach at a Washington State public high school who had been fired for praying on the field after games. First liberty has also representing a bakery in oregon whose owners refused to make a cake for a samesex wedding. In all the Cases, First Libertys plaintiffs won partial or full victories in lower courts or the Supreme Court. This is not some sort of fringy group that doesnt touch the court. Theyre in front of them all the time. Talk about the intersection of the thomases with this group. Right, so Kelly Shackelford as you point out is an influential figure in the conservative movement. House speaker Mike Johnson is a former First Liberty institute attorney. Thats the group Kelly Shackelford runs. And Speaker Johnson has called Kelly Shackelford a mentor. And so there is that overlap there, obviously, thats a strong and important connection to point out. But what also we learn on this call is Ginni Thomas is not only in meetings in washington, d. C. With members of First Liberty, meeting with other conservative leaders as she often does, continues to do, and thats been reported extensively, bushes also reaching out to shackelford privately in this email that was previously unpublished until we reported on it. That shes so thankful for First Libertys work stepping up and announcing that it would fight against these Court Reform proposals put forward by President Biden, put forward by outside groups, put forward by members of congress that First Liberty was taking the lead here and that Ginni Thomas, wife of justice thomas, was thrilled with them. And really i think a key point in her email that you read off just a second ago is its not that hes shes just saying thank you and we appreciate what youre doing. Shes saying this is, quote, filling the sails of many judges. Thats not an empty statement. Ginni thomas, her husband is justice thomas. She socializes and moves in circles with other federal judges. I have to imagine that that is a statement based in fact. That there are other judges out there who dont like reform and that she is conveying their happiness at this effort to block reform in this email. Its also amazing that shackelford describes it as a spiritual battle, the same sort of things you hear from alito in that undercover video. You continue to build an extraordinary and vitally important body of reporting about the Supreme Court. Thank you so much for spending some time to talk to us about it. Thank you. Another break for us. Well be right back. For us well be right back. Ed instant y delivers quality candidates matching your job description. Visit indeed. Com hire hayden the fact st. Jude will take care of all this, this is whats keeping my Baby Girl alive. Chelsea its everything for us. We wouldnt know what to do. We couldnt afford for our little girl to survive. And st. Jude gives us that. [music playing] life, diabetes, theres no slowing down. Each day is a unique blend of people to see and things to do. Thats why you choose glucerna to help manage blood sugar response. Uniquely designed with carbsteady. Glucerna. Bring on the day. Some breaking news to tell you about. Today, hunter biden, President Bidens son, unexpectedly entered a guilty plea in all nine counts in his federal tax evasion Case, thus avoiding a trial, but exposing himself to potential prison time. Abbe lowell, who is his attorney, said he entered a guilty plea to prevent his family from going through the pain of another trial. In december, he was indicted on three felony and six misdemeanor counts. He is set to be sentenced on december 16th. Another break for us. Well be right back. Eak for us well be right back. Ous super fl in under 2 minutes. Each meal is mixed with our phytonutrient blend choose from beef, chicken, plantbased or egg. Experience how delicious fueling your body can be. Kickstart your journey to a healthier you. Visit golofoods. Com today to start fueling your health one meal at a time. We love Home Internet from tmo billllllle now mesh boosts wifi all over your home. Hooommmmmmeee take a class in your attic, that dead spot is gone. Stream ballet in your man cave, learn to paint on your lawn. Hes glorious for a limited time get a free upgrade to Home Internet plus. Just 50 bucks a month. Do, do, do, do, do when i was diagnosed with hiv, i didnt know who i would be. But here i am. Being me. Keep being you. And ask your Healthcare Provider about the number one prescribed Hiv Treatment, biktarvy. Biktarvy is a complete, onepill, Onceaday Treatment used for hiv in many people whether youre 18 or 80. With one small pill, biktarvy fights hiv to help you get to undetectable and stay there whether youre just starting or replacing your current treatment. Research shows that taking Hiv Treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting hiv through sex. Serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. Rare, lifethreatening side effects include a buildup of lactic Acid And Liver problems. Do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. Tell your Healthcare Provider about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have Kidney Or Liver problems, including hepatitis. If you have Hepatitis B do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your Healthcare Provider. Common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. No matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. Talk to your Healthcare Provider today. Next big political event in this election season. Our special coverage of Vice President Kamala Harris and Donald Trumps first and perhaps only president ial debate which will be hosted by Abc News, begins at 7 00 p. M. Eastern here on Tuesday Night on msnbc. You can watch our coverage going into it. You can also stay and watch the debate on msnbc because we get to simulcast the whole thing start to finish. Thank you so much for letting us into your Homes Today and during these extraordinary times. Were grateful. The beat with Ari Melber starts right now. Hi, ari. Happy thursday. Happy thursday. We can watch abc on nbc, msnbc