Transcripts For MSNBC All In With Chris Hayes 20240926

Tonight on all in until my people we dont need any votes. All i wanted do is make sure we got our vote. If trump plans to cheat instead of win [ inaudible ] i hope the people of nebraska understand this may come down to a single Electoral Vote. Tonight how the republican attempt to change nebraskas Voting System just six weeks before the election failed thanks to one republican State Senator. In 2016, former President Trump won. In 2020, President Biden won. Come in and work for the book. You will join me live tonight. Plus women will be happy, healthy, confident and free. Senator Elizabeth Warren on trumps message to women. Direct national Security Spokesman John Kirby on the president s final address to the united nations. My fellow leaders, let us never forget some things are more important than staying in power. All in starts right now. Good evening from new york. I am chris hayes. There is a basic dynamic in this Election Cycle that is not getting enough attention, and it is this. The Trump Era republican party would rather cheat than win. And, i dont mean that they will lie about migrants or teachers or trans people. I mean, they dont care about winning more votes. They want to win regardless of votes or sometimes i think actually, they prefer to win through subterfuge than actual democratic politics. That Sounds Hyperbolic or weird, you dont have to take my word for it. Just ask Donald Trump. I tell my people i dont need any votes. We got all the votes we need. All i want to do is make sure that we guard our votes. It is guarded. We stopped the seal. You know, there is a lot of expressions. I want the vote guarded. I want the Steel Stop because we dont need the votes. We have the votes. We dont need the votes. We need protection of the votes once they are cast. Listen, we dont need votes. We got more votes than anybody has ever had. We need to watch the vote. Think about this. He says it all the time. He is telling people i dont want more votes. I dont want more votes. What i want is to control the electoral system, and you should take Donald Trump seriously when he says that because he keeps saying it. A campaign that is serious about winning the most votes starts with a series ground, Field Operation that knocks on doors and helps voters find rise to the polls. Trump benefited from an Rnc Vote Campaign that worked. But trump is now outsourced their Field Operation to Super Pacs as well is a Swing State republican operative told Nbc News this month there is no tangible Evidence Trump and the rnc have invested in the kind of Ground Game you need in a turnout election. Local republicans are not been asked to not doors, make Phone Calls, Harvest Mailin ballots. Instead, there been asked to be polewatchers in republican counties with republican clerks. Instead of a Ground Game, trump and the rnc have recruited roughly 175,000 volunteers to execute its election integrity program, otherwise known as protective vote. This operation, the dispatch reports, the rnc has already filed 115 lawsuits across 25 states compared with 79 four years ago and Election Day is still four years away. Under trump republicans believe they dont need voter outreach. They need Pole Watchers and lawyers and challenges to laws that make voting and counting votes easier. As We Saw In Georgia Last week went a majority in that State Election Board voted to require handcounted ballots in that state, a move that could drastically lengthen the amount of time to tally results in a critical battleground state. The georgia republican attorney Generals Office suggests the move is illegal in the Republican Secretary of state says it could cause chaos and introduce errors on Election Night but it was approved by three Board Members who have been praised by former President Trump. All this is reminiscent of Assertions Trump and his lawyers made after the 2020 election. Remember when trump made that Phone Call to Brad Roethlisberger asking him to find 11,000 votes and steel that election . He did that behind the news and behind the scenes in secret but when he did that, he tried to launder the subterfuge like yeah we did it. He acted like it was another perfect Phone Call and hes doing it again but not just battleground states. You know this is a very tight election. It could be one of the closest in president ial history, so every possible Electoral Vote matters because Electoral Votes are ultimately what decides the presidency. Most states give them all their Electoral Votes to the winner of the popular vote. Two states are not winner take all. Those two states are Maine And Nebraska where whoever gets the most votes in an individual congressional district wins that districts single Electoral Vote. Even though nebraska is a pretty red state, the congressional district containing omaha tends to vote blue and so since Barack Obama back in 2008 it has been a competitive district for democrats and republicans. The converse is true in maine. That is a blue state where one Electoral Vote went to Donald Trump in the last two elections. In most Elections None of this would be too important but this is what the Electoral College would look like if Donald Trump won all the states he took in 2020 georgia, arizona, and nevada. As you can see, it suddenly becomes critical that harris takes that single Blue Dot in omaha. That single vote would be the difference between winning the election with exactly 270 votes or tying Donald Trump and Electoral College with 269 votes, a tie that the republicandominated congress could then break in trumps favor. So, democracy itself could depend on the singlevote districts. So of Course Back in april, trump and republicans pushed hard for Nebraska Legislatures to pass a bill making it a winner take all state, a Push Led by charlie kerr, the same far right commentator whose Super Pac is now leading trumps Get Out The Vote effort. The thing is the bush did not work. Nebraska did not change its Voting Roles in fact because of the threat from maine that maine democrats would just change theirs. Fine, right . Mutually assured destruction. If both states become winner take all, neither party gets an advantage so the effort died last spring. In fact, listen to this carefully. Maines chance to change its rules passed quietly last month. That is because a bill takes 90 days to become a law after it is passed in maine. Last wednesday marked 90 days before the Electoral College meets in december. Last wednesday was the deadline for maine to be able to change its electoral College System to winner take all in time for the Electoral College. Guess what else happened last wednesday and nebraska. State lawmakers along with South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham came together for a conversation regarding winner take over. In that Closeddoor Meeting we are told grandmas trying to drum up support to change the way nebraska hands out its Electoral College votes. Right . Reservoir dogs. Maine and nebraska both have a gun pointed at each other. Maine drops again. Its like oh, why dont we talk about that winner take all. Assured that maine cannot retaliate anymore, it was back on the menu. Last Week Nebraska republicans moved to change their Electoral Vote rules to favor trump and once again graham openly admitted what he was doing, trying to launder it as normal politics. Nebraska has been talking about this for years. It is a very close election. The entire federal delegation of Nebraska House members and two senators want this change. To my friends and nebraska, that one Electoral Vote could be the difference between harris being president or not and she is a disaster for nebraska in the world. Side note, you see how the Electoral Colleges rube Goldberg Machine invites this kind of sabotage . Like what are we doing here . Count all the votes. The person with the most votes should win like every other election in america. That said, republicans would rather cheat than win. We saw this time and time again in 2020 when Trump And Instagram and Pressured Roethlisberger to change votes in georgia after theyve been cast. When they pushed Arizonas House Speaker for bowers to fake trump electors. In both those cases, Americas Future hung in the balance. Trumps attacks on democracy only failed because the Courage And Integrity of individual republicans like Brad Roethlisberger in georgia and bowers in arizona resisted the pressure of the system and now that appears to be what is happening in nebraska. In order to hold a special session to change your Electoral Vote rules Nebraska Publicans need a filibuster proof majority. One single republican senator could block that plan and one did. His name is senator Mike Macdonald, a former democrat who announced publicly yesterday he was a No Vote on the change. If you look at my position, its been known and i made it clear for the reasons is a believe it makes it relevant in the president ial election. It brings dollars into our city. Were talking about potentially a 50 Million economic impact and also it means youve got a work for it. Youve got to work for our vote. I mean, trump won that Omaha District in 2016. Its not out of reach but remember, he keeps telling his supporters and Campaign Workers i dont need votes. I need to watch the vote. Because ultimately Donald Trump would rather cheat than win. Nebraska republican State Senator Mike Macdonald joins me now. Its wonderful having you on the program. Thanks for making some time for us tonight. That evening. Thanks for the invitation. Is an informational start, from your perspective, could you guide us through what the conversations in the statehouse and in that republican caucus have been like through this year going back to april when it first surfaced as an idea then seemed to go away then made a Sudden Come Back last week. I want to start with thanking all the people who have reached out to me on both sides and 90 of them have been professional, of course, passionate. You cant manufacture passion, its got to come from the heart. I understand this is a serious issue and serious decision. I do appreciate the thousands of emails and conversations and going back to 2016 when i decided to run for the legislature and we are the only one House System in the country which i think we do that better than most states should probably look at changing over to a one health system. I set the reason i want to keep the system we have is the idea that it makes omaha relevant. And it makes the dollars, of course, the economic impact, but it makes people work for our vote. Come on in and talk to some work for our vote and i think sometimes people say oh, nebraska, nice. I they think thats a sign of weakness. Its not. We Work Hard and we play by the rules. Come on in, Work Hard, play by the rules, dont try to change them with 42 days left and as you said earlier, look at the past. Look at the idea of President Biden in 2020, former President Trump in 2016. You know, work for that boat and you can win it but youve got to come in and work and youve got to talk to us. It seems to me that here is my feeling about this and im curious what you think. If you went to winner take all in 2023 where you had a statewide referendum or even earlier this year, i would say yes, that is political hardball by republicans but okay, its hardball. 43 days before the elections, after maine has already past the window, seems like not on the up and up. I have talked about this since 2017 when i was elected. Lets do it in midterm. Lets go ahead and let the people of nebraska vote, which i would oppose this, my vote to switch to winner take all. Of the people in nebraska want to do it twoyears out and let whoever wants to run for President Of The United States know the rules i think that would be fair. I think we should go around the country and in maine, ask other parts of the country, look at our system. All congressional districts can should look at the way we are doing things but i because i think you are talking about going to the people, not talking about 33 senators making a decision. The idea that the coach calls a timeout with two minutes left and says i want to change the value of a Field Goal from three points to four and thats all im going to win, it does not ring true and that is not part of nebraska values. We want to let the people make the decision and to former President Trump and Vice President harris, come into omaha. Have a debate in omaha. Again, work for that Vote And Work for that win as others have done in the past including former President Trump and President Biden. Have you received any communication from former President Trump directly . My policy for the last eight years, i dont talk about private conversations. I can say that people have reached out through Phone Calls and emails and both sides really have worked hard, but theyve been 90 you know, professional and polite. I would say both campaigns were hundred percent professional and polite and we had good conversations and i was try to tell people you know, Tell Me Why im wrong. Teach me something i dont know , but since 2016 when i ran, i have been consistent on this issue based on the idea that i think this is better than winner take all. It is better for our democracy. Let people vote. The idea of the red dot, Blue Dot, how about the Green Dot . It is an economic boost to the city a Phone Call but also have them work for the dot. Come have them talk to the people and work for that vote. I know x President Trump said you are wrong about this and sort of blasted you want to social which i am sure is par for the course. Are you prepared i guess for the glare of that to intensify . Well, i stand behind my word for eight years, you can talk to my colleagues and i have 48 colleagues that i know Work Hard and they are good people but that i disagree with on a number of issues but you can talk to them and they will tell you that i keep my word on the idea of actually representing the people, i represent legislative district five, that is south omaha, i represent those people and i will stand up for those people and all the people of the city of Omaha And Nebraska in the country. Are you going to run for mayor of omaha . Yes, we are definitely thinking about that in looking at making an announcement potentially coming up here but right now, im a State Senator till january 8th. We are serving the constituents as a State Senator and i am proud and honored to do it and it has been a great eight years for me and all the people that i have gotten to know. You can agree with or disagree with people. They say if you are pleasing everyone youre lying to someone so of course theyre going to be disagreements but Ronald Reagan said hey, if you agree 80 of the time i call you a friend. I dont call you 20 anatomy. I think that is the Approach Weve got to have. At The End of the day, decisions have to be made and as i said, in 2016 i was a note to winner take all and i know today and i just dont think it is fair. I think the twoyear idea, if the people of nebraska want to vote to change it for 26 28, fine. I would rather keep it down winner takes all because i think it benefits the people of our state but also i think it is a fair system. Final question for you. Were you surprised to see the republican senator from South Carolina in your State Meeting with your colleagues in that unicameral body, Lindsey Graham lobbying on this issue . We want people to come in. We want to meet people and hear their ideas and concerns and thoughts. The idea of coming into nebraska , please. Like i mentioned earlier, id like to have Vice President harrison former President Trump come into our state and have that debate but people coming in to talk to us, i think thats fine and part of democracy and again, i try to listen. I try to understand but at The End of the day, i am now to winner take all. State Senator Mike Mcdonnell of nebraska, thank you so much for your time tonight. I appreciate it. It was good to talk to you. Start coming up, trunk promises to protect women after dismantling reproductive rights. Senator Elizabeth Warren joins me next. R Elizabeth Warren jois me next. Introducing New Advil targeted relief. The only topical Pain Reliever with 4 powerful painfighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. For up to 8 hours of powerful relief. New advil targeted relief. Introducing a revolution in Pain Relief. For up to 8 hours absorbine junior pro,. The strongest numbing Pain Relief available. Its the only solution with two Max Strength anesthetics for fast penetrating Relief Absorbine junior pro. Nothing numbs pain more. Will trump his having a tough time winning over women. Vice president Kamala Harris according to pulling house at 21 point advantage. Trump is also down 21. On the key issue that matters to a lot of american women and men, as well. 54 of registered voters sick harris would be better than trump on abortion rights. She is up 21 points on that. Now, the republican nominee is trying to bridge this serious golf by basically telling women dont worry your pretty little heads. I am your protector. I want to be your protector. You will no longer be abandoned, lonely or scared. You will no longer be in danger. Youre not going to be in danger any longer. You will no longer have anxiety from all of the problems our country has today. Women will be happy, healthy, confident and free. You will no longer be thinking about abortion. That is all they talk about. Abortion. Joining me now is senator Elizabeth Warren, democrat of massachusetts. Its good to have you on the program. Well, what do you think about this pitch that Donald Trump will be your protector . Hes talking to you as an american woman and he will protect you so well that you just have to worry about all this Politics Stuff like abortion. This is really creepy. Donald trump says he will be happy and you will be happy doing exactly what Donald Trump and his extremist friends have decided that you are allowed to do, and you know, i have to say it actually fits with the whole mindset of saying Donald Trump and an Extremist Branch in this country will decide who gets access to abortion, to ivf, to contraception. It is this they will make the decisions and women, bless us, will simply say thank you and be so happy about all of it. You know, i just want to give him a little advice here. That isnt how we work. Women actually want to stand up and make our own decisions, and if we consult people, we would like to be the ones to decide who we consult. It should not be the case that the government or really, it is Donald Trump and a handful of extremists come in and decide our Healthcare Decisions and what kind of medical care we will be able to receive. It is just creepy, chris. Anthony comstock, after whom the Comstock Acts name, i think also saw himself as a protector of women. We have a lot essentially still on the books and thanks to the overturn of rubber Drums Court could be utilized by the Justice Department on day one as they call for project 2025 to essentially criminalize Abortion And Contraception being mailed anywhere on the first day without congress. Exactly right and remember, Jd Vance has already written a letter to the Department Of Justice telling the Department Of Justice to get out there and enforce the Comstock Act and take away access to abortion to every person in this country. No more access at all. And you know, this is the reminder, obviously, why we need Kamala Harris in the White House, but also, why we need democratic control of congress and particularly, democratic control of the senate. You are covering the races here. I am so glad you are, but this is really the moment. Look at what is going on around the country. More and more people are standing up and saying, i care about the abortion issue. I care about being able to make my decision or letting women make their decisions. This is going to be on the ballot down in florida, and that means that some races in direct contention. You are looking for a race that you want to say where is the possible pickup for democrats . It will be in a place like florida where people are coming to the polls to be able to vote to say, we want access to abortion and while we are here, we would like to have a democratic senator who actually would help Kamala Harris put the law in place to make sure there is no Comstock Act, and that some republican president all on his own In The Future Cannot just wave his wand and get rid of access to abortion. I want to ask you a question about Senate Candidate Bernie maria who is running against your Colleague Sherwood Brown in ohio. I want to play this for you, its kind of a Head Scratching like what is up with these prods and all their obsession with the abortion thing, like why do they care so much in here he is talking about he doesnt quite get why women over 50 care about the issue. Heres what he had to say. You know, the left has a lot of single issue voters. There is a lot of suburban women that are like listen, abortion is it. If i cant have an abortion in this country whenever i want i will vote for anybody else. Okay, its a little crazy but especially for women that are past 50 im thinking to myself. I dont think thats an issue for you. What you think of that one . So, this is the plan to win votes from women . Look, as i understand it, the people of ohio have spoken on the question of abortion, and they voted on this last year, and they came together and said by a pretty large majority, that they want to have access to abortion and that they really dont want to go down this path of having the government make their decisions for them, but it really is to me, this is all of the same mindset about people like Donald Trump just saying that they are the ones who are going to make this decision and patting sweet little woman on the head and telling us we are all going to be happy with whatever it is that they decide. Newsflash. We are not going to be happy about it and in fact, we are not going to go along with it all. That is why i think that we are backing up Kamala Harris and we are backing up democratic control of the senate and backing up democratic control of the house because that combination is literally the only possible way that we can protect access to abortion, protect access to ivf, all across this country. So, yes we have got to help, but we also have to help the republicans in the senate. Florida may be a pickup opportunity. Texas is looking like a pickup opportunity, and defending out democrats who are fighting right now to hang onto their senate seats, that is our pathway to protect access to abortion in Red States and blue states because those republicans are making clear they are coming for everybody. They want to ban abortion nationwide. This is our chance to fight back. You know the democratic candidate in texas and the democratic Candidate Running against Rick Scott so people know this names good to have you here. Still ahead, national Security Spokesman John Kirby. Security spokesman John Kirby. Today, President Biden gave his fourth and final speech to the u. N. Today he made several points about his decision to step aside. This summer, i faced a decision not to seek a second term as president. It was a difficult decision. Being president has been the owner of my life. There is so much i want to get done. As much as i love the job, i love my country more. I decided after 50 years of Public Service its time for a new generation of leadership to take my nation forward. My fellow leaders, let us never forget, some things are more important than staying in power. That lesson, if you will, was obviously not only to his decision about the 2024 race but also Donald Trumps attempts to subvert american democracy and steal the last election. It could also be interpreted to a message to a bunch of people and that room including israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, who has been accused of prolonging his countrys brutal Siege Of Gaza in order to maintain his own grasp of office. Now leaders have another opportunity to discuss the in that world though at the moment there does not appear to be any hope for a Ceasefire Deal that would release hostages in gaza and in bloodshed there. At the same time, ukrainian Volodymyr Zelenskyy is making his case to escalate the fight against Russias Invasion of his country which has been raging for more than two and half years now. John kirby joins me live here on sat next. Here on sat next. The u. S. Is sending additional troops to the Middle East for security purposes to bolster the 40,000 american troops already in the region. This comes after a series of israeli airstrikes left nearly 600 people dead according to the lebanese health ministry. The israeli government says they killed a top hezbollah commander. In the past several Months Israel and hezbollah have engaged in cross attacks. This most recent round of strikes risks dragging in the united states. U. S. Voters rank Foreign Policy relatively low on their list of priorities but sometimes foreignpolicy has a way of asserting its own importance. John kirby is the White House national Securities Adviser and he joins me now. Lets start on lebanon. There is a quote from the great Israeli Reporter not back from the calculation of what israel had done with the pages of the walkietalkies in the airstrikes s deescalation through escalation. This quote went viral. I think you understand why. What do you say when people say this looks terrifyingly like the beginnings of a regional war . That is exactly what we are worried about anothers exactly the message the president had today in the speech to the general assembly. We want to deescalate the tensions. We dont want to see an All Out War and i would argue that almost everything we have been doing since the seventh of october is to prevent that outcome. The way israelis of talked about what they have done over the last couple of days was to preempt what they believe, and they had intelligence that convinced them there would be imminent attacks by hezbollah, Rocket And Missile attacks. The Attacks Today were lighter than they were yesterday. That is a welcome sign, but we are obviously watching this really closely. It is a dangerous moment we are in right now and we continue to urge both sides to step back here. We believe, the president still believes that there is a diplomatic solution to be had here. That diplomatic solution, i think everyone agrees that the center of this is the cessation of hostilities in gaza and the release of the hostages in some kind of deal, right . The White House has pushed for that. It has advocated for that time and again. It seems like it is not happening. I know what youre going to say, its like a stuck Peanut Butter Jar and youve got to keep working it but the members of netanyahus own coalition of threatened to leave the government. Netanyahu says there is no deal on the table. There is reporting that he doesnt want to deal and then there is reporting that hamas does not want a deal. If there is no deal on the table, what is the out of that is the major strategic objective . It is to continue trying to find a path forward to get that deal and im not in the Smoke Blow Smoke here with you. We have not made the progress we had hoped to make and there is no indication right now there is interest at all in any goodfaith way in coming to a negotiated outcome in getting to a ceasefire but that doesnt mean it is still not worth it. As the president says the other day, everything is realistic until all of a sudden it is not anymore and you can try and fail hundred times in the negotiation and then you just dont know if youre going to get that one outcome, so we are keeping at it because we still believe that is the way, the best way to end this war. Its very obvious the u. S. Leverage over sinwar and how mosses now. We dont have direct leverage over them. The israeli government we do have leverage. Obviously we are the largest funder of their military. They have a special program to purchase u. S. Weapons and streamlined fashion. We have a congressional Arms Transfer of policy promulgated by the law that guides the lawful transfer of weapons to countries in line with national and military law. The u. S. Governments two foremost authorities on humanitarian assistance concluded the spring that israel had deliberately blocked deliveries of Food And Medicine in gaza. The conclusion was explosive because the law requires the u. S. Government to cut off weapons shipments to countries to prevent shipments. Days later, secretary of State Blinken delivered the carefully worded message that said we do not currently assess that israeli government is currently restricting the delivery of assistance. Did the secretary of State Override Usaids Assessment . I cant speak to the details of the propublica report. I thought this afternoon, same as you. I cannot speak to the veracity of it. What i can speak to is a couple of things. Number one, we take our obligations under international humanitarian law very seriously. We take the ladylove very seriously and we obviously know the linchpin of any democracy that is at war is to be at war and in keeping with the laws, and that you are treating innocent life as seriously as possible and being as careful as you can and we have made that case to the israelis time and time and time again since the seventh of october. Im not going to sit here and say that they have not caused too many civilian casualties. They absolutely have. And each death is tragic. Each one matters a lot to President Biden and we have continued to press that case. The second thing i would say in keeping with secretary Blinkens Statement is the State Department does have a process. They have to, where they evaluate incidents as they are informed, and as you and i are speaking, they have not made an assessment that there has been a violation of international humanitarian law but they still have cases and incidents that they are examining as you and i are speaking. I think the skeptics would say this but i dont like to end on this note, that basically the political nature of our alliance with israel, for a bunch of regions reasons, geopolitical, domestic politics, whole bunch of reasons, means that we are with them like they are our allies and were not going to cut them off no matter what they do. There is no redline. There is nothing they can do that would mean we would suspend our treatments because that is who we are back in here. It would not go so far, chris. Yes, they are our ally in the president has been consistent that we are going to do what we have to do to help them defend themselves. Even put american Fighter Pilots in the sky to help shoot down drones and missiles back in april. We are serious when we say israel has a right to defend itself. No country would want to live next to those kinds of threats that are just across the border in any country that did would certainly be within their rights to defend themselves, but i would not go so far as to say that we are not willing to make some difficult decisions. When they were going into rafah a few months ago, a very densely populated area, we withheld a shipment of 2000 pound bombs because we had concerns that you can drop those kinds of munitions and be precise so we have taken steps. All right, White House national security Communications Adviser John Kirby, its great to have you here. Come back in the studio anytime. Head, toms latest threats to his enemies and why the united States Senator is taking them seriously. Next. Ing them seriously. Next. Why choose a mobile network built for places youll probably never be. Instead of for where you are most of the time . Xfinity mobile was designed for where you need it most. Xfinity internet customers, ask how to get a free 5g Phone and a second unlimited line free for a year. They were very brave, the Supreme Court, and they take a lot of hits because of it. It should be illegal what happens you know you have these guys like playing the rough like the great bobby knight. These people should be put in jail the way they talk about our judges and the justices. At a Campaign Rally Yesterday Donald Trump said people who criticize the Supreme Court should be put in jail. At some level you think thats just hyperbole but he talks about punishing his enemies with enforced law all the time day in and day out. People who are on trumps so called Enemy List like republican Senator Mitt Romney of utah take those threats seriously, especially given the Possibility Trump may become president again. Mckay coppens writes that romney knew he was likely to be on any of trumps enemies list. Mckay coppens joins me now. It was interesting to see your reporting from this interview with romney who is retiring as a u. S. Senator. He will reenter private life after the spell, but who clearly is thinking quite a bit about what his life would look like with Donald Trump as president with the full expectation that it is not at all crazy to anticipate the essential abuse of the Justice System to go after them. That was one of the striking things in reporting this new material. I had heard from people who were friends with him that he was privately musing about whether he and his wife would have to leave the country, move abroad if trump won, right, and you know, his office pushed back on that a little, said he wasnt necessarily serious about that when he said that but the people i talked to think that he was serious and more to the point, when i talked to him about it, when i sat down with him and asked what his life look like for you if Donald Trump is elected, it was clear this was an issue he had thought through a lot. He showed that snippet of the quote. He said you know, look, i dont think i have anything in my past that will warrant an investigation or an indictment, you know, i dont have classified files. Ive not had an affair. I have not abused my power but i told him, you know, that does not mean the Trump Administration would not go after you then he immediately started talking about you know, well, i have 25 grandkids. I have five sons. I have five daughters in law. We are a big group. It was so clear to me that this was looming large in his mind and he knows theres really no solution to it, given trumps repeated threats of retribution against his political enemies. This is a place for personal really is policy, whoever is working in that Justice Department but only at the highest level but down the line. As John Roberts says, its perfectly appropriate under the constitution for the president to direct his Department Of Justice to do whatever he wants. For instance, to start investigations on all five of Mitt Romneys sons. It does come down to who will go along and who doesnt in your study of these profiles in integrity of conservatives to set no, we had one to start the show, Nebraska Senator Mike mcdonald, who would not go along with this Nebraska Thing but it is amazing how much it comes down to people having integrity and ethics in saying no when the moment matters. Yes, and it is interesting, you know, i remember a couple years ago in an interview with the man, he said you know, he was trying to convince himself that things would be all right if trump won, that it was not going to be The End of democracy and he said i really do believe that most people want to do what is right. They dont want to see themselves as crooks and liars. They dont want to try to steal elections at The End of the day, and i kind of raised an eyebrow at that and he said you know, we have seen a lot of evidence to the contrary and they can convince themselves that they want to do whats right or theyre doing what is right while pursuing these pretty scary agendas and he kind of slumped in his seat and said you know, youre right, but i dont know what to do about it. I think youre right that it comes down to who will be in the administration and who is going to be asked to follow through on these orders but by all accounts, Donald Trump is going to stop his next administration with loyalties, with people who will obey him and i think that is what scares people like Mitt Romney. If you are Mitt Romney and you view the status seriously as he appears to, it does seem like you should endorse Kamala Harris. Youve got the chinese, youve got a whole bunch of whos who of former republicans and then you have folks like romney. I would say Mike Pence was one of them as well was like oh yeah, the guy is clearly a menace, threat to democracy but you know, what can you do . Im curious how you rationalize that. You know, i interviewed him earlier this year for this paperback and at the time Joe Biden was still the democratic nominee and he told me in that conversation that he had not ruled out the prospect of endorsing Joe Biden. My sense was that if that did happen, it would happen in the fall. Were kind of there now. When i asked if you wanted to talk again to update his thinking given everything that is change since that interview, he declined. He is not doing interviews. He does not want to put himself in the News Cycle so i dont know what he thinks of Kamala Harris as a nominee. He has made some comments publicly that she was impressive in the debate against trump. I think, though, that Mitt Romney has internalized this idea, and this is based on a lot of conversations ive had in the last few years, that he has so little influence on republican voters and the electorate is encouraged that his endorsement will not matter