Lose the election. I would just ask that. Did he lose the 2020 election . Tim, im focused on the future. That is a damning nonanswer. America, i think youve got a really clear choice of whos going Toar Honor that democracy and who is going to honor Donald Trump. That was the harris campaigns first ad after last Nights Debate highlighting j. D. Vances absurd claim that Donald Trump peacefully transferred power after the 2020 election and vances refusal to admit that trump lost. Now, if you watched the dewait Last Night, you would have seen Senator Vance try to put a gloss of respectability on the president ial campaign as trump himself appears increasingly unhinged. But that strategy to normalize the very weird and very extreme trumpvance platform, that Strategy Sort of fell apart when vance was asked about huz Running Mates failed attempt to cling to power after the 2020 election. Now, admittedly, it is hard to defend Donald Trumpsis actionsn the post2020 election period. There were a lot of bad Data Points there. And today it feels like the News Gods watched last Nights Debate and saw j. D. Vances appalling answer and decided to highlight the whole issue. Because today a federal judge in washington, d. C. Unsealed a partially redacted, 165page Filing from special Counsel Jack Smith in which smith lays out why he believes that the case is very much still prosecutable following the Supreme Courts immunity ruling. Along with that, smith lays out yet another new narrative of the case, and that all 161 pages of that is what reporters and legal analysts have been pouring over all day today. Stuff like conversations with Trump And Vice president Mike Pence before an angry mob called for Mike Pence to be hanged. At abe private Luncheon Decembe 21st pence encouraged trump not to look at the election as a loss, just an intermission. This was followed later in the day by a private discussion in the Oval Office in which trump asked pence, what do you think we should do . Pence said, after we have exhausted every legal process in the courts and congress, if we still come up short, trump should take a bow. Trying to get trump to think aboutp his loss as an Art Missn suggests Mike Pence wanted trump to run again in 2024 and was presumably ready to run with him. But it was Mike Pences decision to focus on the future, as jaesks might say, instead of doing trumps bidding in the present that might ultimately lead trump to believe Mike Pence lacked courage. Upon receiving a Phone Call alerting him that pence had been taken to a secure location, a staffer rushed s to the Dining Room to inform trump in hopes that the defendant, trump, would take action to ensure pences safety. Instead, after the staffer delivered the news, trump looked at him and said only so what. The Vice President s life is in danger, and the president s reaction is so what. This new filing further sheds light on just haw conscious he was hed been lying after the election. A white House Staffer traveling with trump overheard him tell Family Members that it doesnt matter if you won or lost the election, you still have to fight like hell. And then we learn the degree to which the Trump Campaign explicitly encouraged violent disruption not just at the capitol on January 6th but in states where the vote was still being counted. You might remember this footage of Angry Trump supporters in Detroit Demandingup Access to t secure location where votes were being counted after Election Day. This new filing describes how Trump Campaign staffers appear to have actively encouraged those people to commit violence. A campaign employee agent, and coconspirator of trumps tried to sow there he told that Campaign Staffer we think a batch of votesgn heavily in Bidens Favor is right. Staffer responded, well, find a reasonl, it isnt. Give me options to file litigation and even if its b. S. When a colleague suggested there was about to be unrest reminisce want of the Brooks Brothers riot, an effort to stop the Vote Count in florida after the 2000 president ial election, the staffer responded, make them riot, do it. Joining me now is democratic congresswoman Zoe Lofgren of california. Re she, of course, served on the January 6th committee. Congresswoman, thank you for being heren, tonight. Im eager to get your initial reaction to this traunch of new material, a lot of it quite damning, that the judge has unsealed today. Well, it has details that we were not able to get, but i dont think the conclusion is really much different than we reached. Thiser was a plot by trump to Kp Power even though he lost the election. He knew he lost the election. In fact, we found statements going back to April Of 2020 where he said, you know, he was going to stay in power. He would not respect the vote. So this was he never intended to seize power and we were not able to get, for example, testimony from the Vice President. So theres some things in here that we didnt know. Certainly the who cares statement is shocking but not surprising. Thats in keeping with his whole attitude, the tweet that he put out. He called he assembled that mob in washington and he knew they were armed, and he sent them down to the capitol any how, and he wanted to go with them. He tried to go with him. Congresswoman, the most explosive stuff a lot of it is explosive, but the stuff a lot of people really have not been privy to is Mike Pences testimony. Were allpe highlighting the so what comment because its so cavalier, so effectively heartless not to say nothing of theot morals and heartless. The indictment details 71 instances where trump threatens pence. And at one point threats that are so serious, that mark short, pences former chief of staff, feels he needs to notify the Secret Service, that his you know, his asset their asset could be in harms way. It is very hard for me to understand whatever the Supreme Court has said in its initial immunity ruling, that this could somehow be an official act. The threatening of a Vice President s life by its very Nature Cant be part of the role of the Vice President. Can it . Well, it boggles the mind if it is. Clearly as the prosecutor has laid out, these efforts were in his capacity as a candidate for President And Someonee who was trying to keep office, not act as the president. So i think, you know, its a compelling case. I think, you know, well see because if trump is elected president , hes going to order the Department Of Justice to dismiss this case. And the court the Supreme Court made clear that any communication between the president and the doj is going to be in that immune bubble. But if he is not elected president , this case is going to go forward, i think, and i think a solid case has been made that Theres Evidence sufficient to proceed and probably to convict. As a Congress Person i wonder how youre processing, you know, the details like Trump Campaign staffers encouraging Election Workers to make them riot as we now sit a month before another election when Donald Trump is once again at the top of the ticket and once again questioning whether the election will be free or fair, now has an army of poll to watchers who are going to do his bidding. Whats your concern there . And how prepared is congress in the coming months and years ahead if trump is reelected . Well, we did, of course, make changes in the electoral count act, liz cheney, and i with a lead on that to make it harder to overturn the election. Trump has been pretty overt, pretty open that violence is something that he appreciates. I mean, all the way from urging his followers in rallies to rough up people who they didnt like to, you know, summoning a mob and encouraging an armed mob to attack the capitol. I mean he uses violence for his own purposes, and he is threatening, i believe, to do that again. He sometimes uses code words, but his followers certainly understand what hes saying. They sure do. Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, thank you for making the time tonight. I appreciate it. Im now joined by kristi greenberg, former federal prosecutor and now msnbc legal analyst. Thank you for being gifted to us by the News Gods. We havent had all the adequate time to digest it, but three buckets that stood out to me. Where the special counsel is saying these are not official acts, a and therefore they shou be in an indictment, we should move forward. This all stuff he can be held to account on at trial. The first is Mike Pence. It seems the Supreme Court has left open the door some of the conversations and interactions between the president and Vice President may just be prosecutable. In the filing the special counsel goes out of its way to characterize the conversations as those friends would have, that they are conversations where trump is being encouraged by pence to acknowledge that its over, kind of like you would console a grieving friend, that the Context And Content of the conversations reflect a candid exchanges between two candidates on a shared ticket, not, in fact, office holders. How convincing do you think that argument is around the nature of those conversations . Ofwell, i found it very convincing. Reading through their exchanges it didnt seem like it was a president and Vice President a talking. It seemed like a Schoolyard Bully and a victim. Thats how it seemed. Youve got Mike Pence call him on christmas to wish him Merry Christmas and hes saying, so, you going to certify that election . It wasec constant to the point was saying everyone is going to hate you. You have to do this. And then youre too honest, which is the part that sang to me. Because, again, goinganto back your intro where is the part in this 165page Brief where you get that Donald Trump knew he lost and knew these Election Fraud claims were bogus . And that right there was one example. You were too honest. And again, its hard to see how the Supreme Court can t look at statements like that and say, oh, that was well within his official acts as president. He was clearly speaking as a candidate who wantedas to win a who knew he lost. And when pence is speaking to trump trying to defend himself and get him off the ledge, effectively, its not that of a Vice President serving his president. Its a Running Mate saying, hey, bro, we lost. We can call it quits. Yeah, we can try again in 2024. And asca you said, its just an intermission. Dont think of it as a loss. Like the fragility of this mans ego, reading it it was kind of lame and pathetic, but again not seeming Veryin Official whatsoever. The next part of it is the ellipse rally, right . They go out of their way to say this was not an official, you know, White House function. This, was paid for, i believe,y Ave Grocery Chain heiress. The Secret Service responsible for the president s protection classified the rally as a campaign event. The special counsel is trying to establish that everything that happened there had nothing to do with official function, so Anything Trump said there would notru be deemed official acts, right . Ct right. And so i think what Jack Smith sets up so beautifully when he gets to this point on January 6th because he takes you through days and days on the Pressure Campaign on State Officials and the state elector scheme. And now everything has failed. This is his last shot. This is it. Th hes got to get this crowd to stop the certification because Mike Pence isnt playing ball. Seeing how Donald Trump, the words in that context, with that fuller context of everything that c had come up before it, i just seems so clearly designed to incite this riot. Th thats clearly where his statements were directed, and once again how is that at president ial . He does the same thing. Smith again takes the same logic and applies it to the fake electors plot, suggesting this is completely unofficial. Its Fair Game for prosecution. Judge chutkan unsealed all of this. Theres a purpose there. I wonderth what you think what happens now. The public is digesting it. Its heavily redacted or partially redacted. Trump gets to file a response. Where do we go from here . One thing thats been notable to me is trumps lawyers have said we get a chance to cross examine the witnesses. Youin cant just take this on t papers. We get to question these witnesses and confront them. And presumably for a number of these witnesses the way theyre characterized in the filing is not the Way Trump is going to characterize them. Forze example, Eric Hirschman W is not identified by name, but you can read between the lines and figure out who he is, he is described as a conduit between the campaign and the White House. But at one point in 2020 hes actually working in the White House. So theyre goingal to say, no, hes a White House guy. None of this was within the campaign and the candidacy. And with Mike Pence i think itll be a similar calculus. Those witnesses in particular important because those are the two Jack Smith says those people told him he lost and knew it in 2020. And you have statements seeming to acknowledge it when hirschman says this is not going to hold up in court, and Donald Trump says details dont matter. Things like onthat, those are important facts from the judge, and i think shes going to want to hear it from the horses moulgt. Ultimately whatever she decides, its going to get appealed and its going back to the Supreme Court. Thats a whole other question. Christy greenberg, thank you for your time and expertise. Appreciate it. Stillex ahead this evening, what happens when a massive deadly hurricane hits two critical Swing States five weeks before a president ial election . The chair of the North Carolina democratic party will join me to talk about how her state is recovering and getting ready to vote. But first Donald Trump has a T W Week to officially respond to special Counsel Jang smiths bombshell filing tonight, but hes already responding online. Going to have more on that with the bulwarks tim Miller And Charlie sykes Coming Up next. Syt why didnt you answer the question Last Night during the debate about who won the 2020 president ial election . Heres the simple reason. The medias obsessed with talking about the election of four years ago. Im focused on the election of 33 days from now. J. D. Vance may be interested in moving on, but a newly unsealed filing from the special counsel is keeping trumps increasingly desperate plans to overturn the 2020 election very much in the spotlight 34 days before Election Day as voting is underway in 29 states. Trump himself responded tonight on truth social writing, democrats are weaponizing the Justice Department against me because they know i am winning and they are desperate to prop up their failing candidate, Kamala Harris. The doj pushed out this latest Hit Job Today because jaefs humiliated Tim Walz Last Night in the debate. Joining me now are tim miller, writer at large at the bulwark. Gentlemen, here we have it. This is how you explain it away. Tim, this is the epiinization of the Justice Department. Never mind Judge Ton Yu Chutkan is an independent federal judge. Your thoughts. Amazing how weaponization works. Theyre going after Eric Adams and Bob Menendez just to throw us off the scent. Look, we know this is ridiculous from trump. To me i think the most interesting thing that we learned in the filing is just how much Jack Smith has on trumps behavior. I think the January 6th committee did such a good job i didnt know how much material would be out there, just kind of scanning what we see so far, knowing what trump what he was watching on his phone, like as the riot was occurring, what the context was of when he sent out the Mike Pence should have the courage tweet. The fact that people told him about the threats to Mike Pence and that he didnt care. There is even additional information here added on top of the already damning stuff that we learned from the January 6th committee. Hopefully between that and what we saw from j. D. Vance last Night Kind of continuing to keep this story in the news as it should be, by refusing to say Donald Trump lost the election, it can, you know, be something that is injected into the public debate in a way that, like, a certain demographic of people, probably not viewers of this show, but a certain demographic of people probably have top of mind. Charlie, theres the reality of how damning this is for any president. But the fact this person is running again, the election is in 33 days i lost count but hes out there saying this. Lets play the sound of, you know, his level of confidence about the coming election. Do we have the sound . Can we play it . Trust the process this time around. Ill let you know in about 33 days. Charlie, ill let you know in about 33 days. That is not what you want to hear from the guy who has a who is the subject of a 165page Filing detailing his desperate measures to subvert democracy. I wonder if you think this matters to voters. Well, were going to find that out. You know, youre going to be hearing a lot more of this because this filing by Jack Smith is a reminder what Donald Trump did his criminal conspiracy, his frauds and Deceit And Reliance on violence, but its also a warning