I am an astrologer this is the welcome is done once again to get into the nitty gritty the fun and betty they ultimately expression oh what station i have a confession to make we are actually in mexico right now oh my god thats true we are in mexico for this a toshi round table and we every prerecorded this so were at the situation round table talking about big plane with our fellow bit coiners and im pretty quoting this so just in case the price has crashed zero or the price has gone to fifty thousand we dont know at the point that were recording this but i do want to talk about the general headline here regarding that coin and it reads nobody puts bitcoin in the corner this is from f. T. Alphaville skate im super. And hes written for queen desk and queen telegraph and all these sorts on line wired as well about crypto currencies and stuff and this is gotten a lot of attention because of this opening these three paragraphs that i want to talk about very very fascinating way to put it suppose for a moment big question never existed and a theory im never existed and the whole crazy world of crypto currencies never happened someone comes along and tells you to imagine an Electronic Network for moving money anywhere in the world that no one owns its an intriguing idea its an unprecedented idea in the entirety of Human History such a thing has literally never existed would your response really be l o l the true value of bitcoin is zero no no no this is the result of a lot of very smart people thinking about this for many many years about how to move value over the internet or they encounter. Whats called the double spend problem that it censorship resistant that its immutable its goal two point zero and it takes advantage of the a some pot a curve and costs in technologies for processing band with and other elements chip speed all approaching that price of zero which means you can have the block chain moving around at ever cheaper cost even though its expanding in size because the economics of the internet is crashing toward zero thats one of the phenomenon in economics that people like paul krugman dont understand as it applies to bitcoin because he is used to things like increased returns economics based on diminishing returns and how that effects pricing and how that affects economic theory have increased returns where you have the basic raw material that is the say electrons and processing and moving them around is constantly going to zero but you are at the same time as infinite as that sounds the uniqueness of each because i know there only being twenty one million is part of the intrigue that is this technology and this and this value system that is completely unique and the result of thousands of years of Technological Progress hundreds of years of economic thought and real true desirability to have a system that is completely outside social control well yeah its important to understand. Whoever youre reading or what analysis to understand kind of where theyre coming from and what their background is some paul krugman is neoclassical economists and an ivory tower he lives in an ivory tower hes an academic theres nothing wrong with that theres been ivory tower dwellers throughout history in india they have it codified into a class system a caste system he is an academic and he believes in the. Right of a hierarchy that you know one should. Trained to a doctor at the level and then you can tell the people you could teach people these poor students ignorant students what what the truth is about economics so. He comes from that sort of background where he believes elite know more and they should govern the economy politics culture so thats his background thats how he comes to bit coin. On the other hand as this article points out there have been a lot of scams. But thats attached to anything that is a store of value look at any Clint Eastwood film throughout history its all about some schmuck trying to steal some gold from somebody else and they all fight and kill each other and then you know some woman is gained as well during the whole thing and you know they make off with a gold somebody who gets the gold at the end of the show but here he says theres a lot of thats dumb about crypto currencies the dumb seems to increase proportionally with the price every day some new idiot tries or a lock on the i c o roulette wheel and the hope of making a fortune of a lifetime for doing little more than writing a piece of paper and sticking a countdown clock on a website but theres a lot thats really profound and you need only look as far as big to see that so he goes into the actual issue which gives it so much value which the likes of paul graham asked and which youve just been calculated where he says the problem of transferring or Holding Value digitally without permission is not a trivial one the fact the solution requires huge amounts of energy is just one sign of the difficulty the upshot of solving it however as you get an Electronic Network for value that governments cannot control or destroy except with significant financial and social cost even they might not succeed i mean you saw that with remember during the arab spring when in egypt. When mubarak was overthrown he tried to turn off the internet and it worked for two or three days and all his cronies every would like that he had to turn it back on he had to connect them back to the internet because it was it became impossible he was he was going to be ousted no matter what at that point because he was either going to crash the economy take everything down with it and all his friends and all his cronies or he was going to have to turn it back on this barrier to entry for creating a coin is almost zero yeah over a thousand coins and. Hundreds of probably more than a thousand i see as you know i think i liken it to i remember i dont even have this anymore but they used to have a form of a cosmetic. Product where you put this tape on your skin and pulls blackheads and you know the ease with which you can create a currency out of nothing as is pulled out the black kids that are a lot of dodgy characters and projects out there. Alongside the internet just like you know there are many false prophets and then there was lets say jesus for example you know and he ended up being worth something but you know lets go back to. The secular world yes toshi is a problem a lot of people are seeking profits but here you know again the internet paul krugman meston every time he tries to offer his opinion on twitter about bitcoin of course if you look at the tweet tweeted responses as all pictures of fax machines because of course he said the internet would have no impact on the Global Economy as much only as the fax machine ever did so he just thought it was a communication not a network and he clearly has some sort of blind spot to Network Effects and Network Impacts and changing of the mind and certainly you were around during the first dotcom boom and. At that time people you know the markets investors went crazy and people thought pets. Dot com tys dot com shirt dot com you know that was where it was all going to go that was the way to make the fortunes and they didnt see social media they didnt see Twitter Facebook there was all came along later right thing the basic as i point out that thats missed is that the underlying fundamental Building Blocks of this economy are becoming cheaper every single day and its a lot different than traditionally going to make sure you have diminishing returns or you have the need you know if youre digging gold out of the ground it takes ever more energy to dig gold out of the ground now it does require more energy to mine coins but the ancillary markets themselves are popping up in a way thats almost exponential and dwarfing that underlying costs such and such a degree that the free money thats appearing in peoples accounts that they can use then to go and do battle with the money that is the result of coercion by a corrupt state is quite remarkable i just want to also point out something about the first dot com bubble didnt you have some like seven year old pitcher and a knock knock joke say yeah i was. The height of the dot com bubble when i went to a conference i sat next to as a seven or ten year old kid who was launching knock knock joke dot com for a multimillion dollar valuation and it was the supreme knock knock jokes that one could find and there was also a duty dot com as a daily drawing of. Def occasion essentially and drawing def a catering duty dot com but those i see it was a quick yes Jason Calacanis about this jason remember duty dot com knock knock joke dot com i mean that was jason was of course the king of the dot com back that hes been come out hes against not against but even trying to sound the alert on the parallels between the dot com and the i. C. Which is ok its a fine analysis there is total access in this space but the Underlying Technology like there were survivors of the dot com like google and. Facebook a little later but. Another those lows. Yeah theres another thing going around which the who is the founder of the theory im has been talking about this is the notion of a fair coin people are trying to figure a way to distribute coins better that was also an issue up at a meeting i heard some analysis saying that there was a lot of talk about sovereign currencies because at that point at the time of. Venezuela has it Just Announced petro currency. So this is something Going Forward that could be a possibility as the sovereign currencies i dont know i havent read the white paper on the petro but i dont know if thats workable but i think in the future there could be something that is like you know the alas alas k. If youre a resident of lasky receive some money every year its like a thousand two thousand three thousand dollars check that comes in because you live in the state and the oil in the state produces a lot of oil so they get a share of that so there could be a way to distribute instead of having oligarchs and all they sort of very wealthy few where theyre you know youre in an oil rich country or mineral rich country if it just goes to a handful of people they get to you know for some reason get the exclusive access to the assets of the nation that happened to lie under the nation you know this is a fair way to distribute the coins or a mention of the government in america subsidizes the Energy Industry tens of billions hundreds of billions probably a trillion dollars of u. S. Government subsidies ation of the Energy Industry u. S. Government could subsidize mining of big oil or other crypto currencies and put those into wall its called american citizens going to each have an automatic wallet tied to their Social Security account and they can get a daily weekly or monthly airdrop of crypto coins that they can then use to boost the economy with the government can easily do that then we should do that ive said many times and this would be a way to fairly distribute wealth and it is no reason why wall street that gets the subsidisation of free money from the fed why vest on shared equally amongst the entire population they can match that distribution a fair money from the fed using crypto coins visa v the Social Security account yeah i mean and one problem of course is you dont want just one air drop like aurora coin try try because theyre all is the soviet problem because when the soviet union collapsed they did give basically the equivalent of what an air drop was that every citizen got some sort of cut of the assets of the nation and it turned out that the oligarchs went around door to door knocking and and collecting them all and bought. Them for cheap and then became the controllers of the assets you want a dividend that keeps on coming in absolutely we can solve this stay sick right after the break well have it all figured out go away. When you dont. Get a quarter. To what the most. Space. Let alone. Said. Let me know. That. You speak french. Heres what people have been saying about rejected in the us in the long. Bill the show i go out of my way to you know what it is that really packs a punch. Is the john oliver of r t america is doing the same we are apparently better than. The sea people youve never heard of love right down to the night. President of the world bank so very. Seriously send us an email. Welcome back to the kaiser report imax keyser time now to go to acapulco and speak with Geoff Burrowes who puts on the biggest mass and arctic conference in politics and economics that is an arc of paul go in this year is that of a one day crypt a polkadot jeff welcome back its my pleasure max and geoff congratulations this is an archipelago cooked up all cool thing is blowing up man its a must go tour of that era here about all the time you must be very pleased yeah actually weve been totally shocked we were not expecting this we have about triple the audience of last year its going to be actually sold out its going to be about fifteen hundred people we had about six hundred last year and yeah its piers that this anarchy thing is kind of popular there id say to as if i or somebody showed up out and they couldnt get a ticket its completely sold out you know the main conference is sold out but theres all kinds of events before and after its almost like a month long sort of a vent but so you go to an archipelago dot com and scroll down you can see all the workshops and you can also live stream the conference at an archive polka dot com slash live stream so what a lot of people are doing is coming down and theyre going to actually just sit by the pool and watch the conference on their i pad and then when the people all come out from after the conference and they all go to the parties and Restaurants Join them theyre all right i call that lets get into some of these recent developments in the big coin space and you know lets talk a little bit about bitcoin a bit coin cash. You know as well as one or two big coin maximalist so we say are you staying away from that fight big versus big going cash or how do you weigh in on that one i know youre going to have a couple of the big cash people at the festival what are your thoughts on this geoff. Yeah i definitely have not been staying away from this debate it actually took me a few months after the fork on august first to kind of understand what was going on its not complex and technical and theres all kinds of different interests involved in this is what happens when you have a completely decentralized currency is there is a lot of disorganization theres a lot of fighting theres a as we know a big cash forked off from decline on august first and that was generally a dispute about how to scale because when and that dispute is still very much still going on because bequest transaction fees have been still very high and bitcoin transaction speeds have been quite low and the main reason i got into big quien was because i believed that if we could have additional currency that is decentralized it will essentially get rid of Central Banks which will eventually massively downsize governments and even eventually get rid of governments and as a matter because thats exactly what i want but the way the big quake has developed in the sea a lot of these big quake or developers you see people at block stream these have been the blocks he has been one of the most. Active groups involved in this sort of thing and block stream is kind of half owned or owned by the chairman of builder berg so thats a lot of doubts about their intentions and you hear a lot of the bickering Core Developers talking about its ok if it cost one hundred dollars to transfer because that just shows that its its really popular and thats not what i first saw for because when i first got into it in two thousand and eleven i foresaw that we need a currency that can be eased by anyone in the world that is decentralized very cheap to use and very fast at least within ten minutes or something along those lines at the very least and now were seeing big claim being moved to ive seen transaction fees well over one hundred dollars actually paid one transaction fee of over two thousand dollars once trying to transfer three Big Questions about two weeks ago now there is a segment theres lightning that word has all kinds of things we could talk about there but i also have my doubts about those. And the main thing that i see is there are loads techies dont really understand what the really big queen was created for and that was to become a currency used by everyone and they keep talking about it being digital gold now so its not digital cash is digital gold if so its because it ends up being digital gold it cant be used very easily as cash then were going to have to look at alternatives thats an ongoing debate i think them the market is going to sort this out one way or another nothing is bigger than the market i know theres a lot of grumbling about big cash kind of pleasure as ing the name bad cause and by using but coin dot com as a gateway to becoming cash causing a lot of what some would say unnecessary confusion in the marketplace but lets move on to another crypto currency that year involve the as your very prominent poster that steam it and this is an interesting application jeff because its in all the coin and they all coins came around during the period of scaling debates and the delays in scaling that way of saying going to going back a few years and it really laid the foundation and created the room for these all coins to blossom and steam is one of those all coins but it also has a very specific use case and i always liked it ive talked about it before on this show it seems like a great use of tokens to incentivize contacts cetera and youre a big big big guy on steam and can you tell folks about it yes sure i got on to it about july two thousand and sixteen i believe and i didnt know anything about it i made my first post and i because you cannot vote and give steam to the best post on the site i made fifteen thousand dollars on my first post because im quite well known in the Cryptocurrency Community and every one of the time whos who was on steam it was all into cryptocurrency so i started to learn about it and i found out that the developer was a person named dan alarum or i really got into his concept hes an american capitalist hes try. And you create all of these sort of things cryptic c