Chief science officer and cofounder of Research Foundation my guest today. Through the. Mortality and. Technological leaps we have a. Science achieved possible will ever lasting life only be available to the rich. Population. Of life and death to catastrophic expected consequences. Dr operate a great antiaging pioneer chief science officer and cofounder of sayer search Research Foundation welcome to the show great to have you with us so what you propose in order to reverse aging claiming the organism. All the junk that accumulates tear on a Cellular Level so tell me the gist of it why well that stopped the wearing of time on my organs. Well its not quite that simple what we propose is we can keep people healthy later in life but i repair in all of the damage that the body does to itself throughout life in the course of its normal operation and some of that damage is of the thought that you just described essentially the accumulation of widespread but inside cells and also in the spaces between fellow but soviet not quite like that for example some time simply we have too many of a particular bad type of cell though its not that it is misbehaving or in other cases we dont have enough of a particular good time cells die and theyre not necessarily replaced automatically by the division of other cells furthermore the damage to. The structure the kind of lattice of proteins that holds the body together which is called exercising the matrix so as you can see there are many different types of damage and we have to fix them all now i work at sense Research Foundation is exactly that we are focusing on many of these things because we know that they all need to be developed and applied to the pit people all the same time in due course and in a few cases the rest of the world is already understanding this and focusing well on them so for example of course theres a huge amount of Stem Cell Research going on worldwide but the reason we created the foundation was because there are plenty of other areas which were very neglected luckily weve made lots of progress in that so now everyones getting much more excited about it and this is like a very general description of what you do where you strive for a better one how does this look technically like what do you do is it like a potion that you ingestion yourself or why. It is this that youre working on. Well let me answer that in 2 ways from the point of view of the person whos going to be receiving these therapies and also from the point of view of People Like Us the researchers who are developing them from the point of view of the person whos going to be receiving them they will just look like that you like no medicines delivered by injections or perhaps with pills in some cases the maybe surgery involved. Into the what is being injected or introduced however its going to be very very complicated lots of different components to it well be doing stem cell therapies we will also be doing gene therapy is where we introduce engineer viruses into the body that modify the the the the d. N. A. Of ourselves that will also be immunotherapy for stimulating the immune system to do things to repair things that its normally isnt doing and also simple you know pharmaceuticals now in terms of developing these things it gets pretty complicated so for example one way in which we addressing the problem of waste product of the accumulation of stuff inside cells that stops them working is we are identifying bacteria that have the ability to break these things down and then we identify the genes that they have the given that ability and having done that we then modify those gains so that we can put them into human cells and they still work and weve succeeded in this regard in relation to some very important aspects of aging that a caused by the accumulation of weisbrod one of them is atherosclerosis the number one killer in the western world and the other one is Macular Degeneration so at this point have you had one big hit a defining moment whether its a successful drug test or surgery trial or anything else that gives proof that this is all within grasp that this is actually working. Weve had a number of big hits but not quite of that kind because we work on the early stages of this research when we get to the point where therapy prospective therapy is anywhere near going to into the clinic to be actually used on human beings its kind of no longer our problem by that time we have already maybe created a spin out company and transferred the intellectual property into the company so that it can attract investment from women from from wealthy people around the world and theyre the people who take it forward to Clinical Trials for the moment so through such foundation has existed for more than a decade weve been doing this research but just in the past few years maybe 2 or 3 years we have been taking several of our project through out to the private sector in the way i just described start up companies and those companies are not yet in Clinical Trials but in general theyre only one or 2 years away from that point so the big hits that weve had in terms of allowing this to be seen as a feasible idea previously the approaches that we have pursued 10 years ago they were just viewed i was completely impossible everyone of the officially given up on these areas and we showed that they should have given up and you just need to try a bit harder so it doesnt seem that your Research Went down too well with the Scientific Community where sense is branded by some as i said a science do you feel this accounts hold water i mean learning from peer reviews and criticism is a major part of any research to field a negative in put has been helpful. The mistake that you have made in that analysis is you havent looked at the dates of the various reactions to what we say there was indeed a great deal of skepticism and opposition and he did denigration of this work when i 1st started putting it forward 1015 years ago people didnt really understand what i was and as you say they often thought that it was just on scientific but i was able to engage my colleagues careful scientific debate on these areas back in the mid 2000 and the result was basically i was convincing i was able to demonstrate that actually the only reason why my colleagues had been skeptical was because they didnt really understand what i would say and now this decade were in a very different position in fact its so good that people are reinventing the concept and pretending its the new one and actually getting you know this is not completely mainstream papers being written used ready as the official or the touchstone of the field as a kind of description of what the field is supposed to be doing and theyre identically what i said a decade earlier so yes that fun to figure out if you want has been completely factual there are very very few people now who would say that this is unfair and if it so youve been saying that that one of the major problems your research is facing is money why is that i mean dont reach people want to live forever dont we all want to cure disease. Unfortunately the way to persuade someone that they ought to support this financially does not only confess of getting scientific legitimacy yes with me their will to show that this is a sensible way to proceed but that doesnt say that its going to succeed any time soon it could take a long long time and of course people dont like to get their hopes up you know people like to kind of put aging out of a mind and you know get on with their lives and kind of not be preoccupied by this terrible thing thats going to happen to them and wildly Research Remains a relatively early stage so that the time frame before it becomes really available is still very speculative but you know its kind of not surprising that people are a little reluctant to get heavily involved that is changing now because things are far enough along as i mentioned that they can be invested in so people can actually make money out of this which kind of distracts them from getting too emotionally invested in whether theyre going to be able to benefit themselves in terms of the therapy and so thats thats all working out quite nicely but there are so many other irrational reasons especially in the west why people dont get involved in this theyll say you know that its because their wife doesnt want them to or its because they think their shareholders are going to fail that theyre. Putting money into Science Fiction and that price of that company will go down or you know though the the theyll think that for example. Philanthropy doesnt work you know crazy reasons like that but this is gradually changing over time i will say however that in russia when i come to russia i never have this problem whenever i speak whatever i come to russia i love it because everyones really sensible about it they really want to. Actually see this yeah and i bet they trust you because you look like dostoyevsky so. They probably see you and theyre like oh hes trustable. Well some people say i look like respites info doesnt necessarily work so tell me something what is your ultimate and again do you want to prolong life or do you just want to eliminate death altogether. Well neither of those things really what i do is im a medical research so im interested in keeping people healthy however long ago there were books thats all now of course most people die from being unhealthy for big sick and certainly most people these days in the developed world when they get sick its because they were born a long time ago its because theyre old so that means that if we fix that if we keep people healthy when theyre older than on average they will probably live a lot longer than they currently do now thats a side effect its a really nice side effect i think you know life is valuable life is good but the fact is its still a side effect so we shouldnt really be thinking in terms of longevity let alone you know immortality the goal here the goal is simply to keep people healthy same as it is for the whole of the rest of medicine all right were going to take a short break right now and when were back well continue talking to operate a brain antiaging researcher and chief science officer and cofounder of sense Research Foundation discussing rejuvenation therapies and the promise of everlasting genes stay with us. You know world is a big part of the lot and conspiracy its time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that Mainstream Media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smart we need to stop slamming the door on the bad and shouting past each other its time for critical. Its time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. Im. Ready ready ready sure to stop at the continuing to grow. I just never know very good about the idea of bringing children into the world because i didnt feel like things were in very good shape to life was just going to be a lot of software program. Theres no reason the more kids you take things that are to me the movies on the move Something Else that. Everybodys scared to talk about is survival is truly dependent on us addressing this issue and if we can even talk about it if we can even have a conversation about it then. Were in trouble. Ready or bad what dr albert de grey activist 7 researcher chief science officer and cofounder said this Research Foundation talking about human bunch of 80 and religious nation technologists welcome back to the show so some are saying. A silver tsunami of aging people is set to hit the Global Economy by 2050 do you see any major rejuvenation Solutions Available by that time. I will go further i would say that absolutely this rejuvenation by technology is the only way that we are going to keep the ageing of the population from completely crippling the Global Economy already were in a hugely problematic situation of course the difficulty is that the reason why we have so many people who are. Elderly now is because number one we are preventing them from dying young because were really good now at curing Infectious Diseases and so on but also because they thought the types of thing that people get sick from later in life they are slowly progressive chronic problem so people dont die out once the way they do from typical infections they will continue to go gradually sicker and sicker and sicker and more and more expensive over time and so if everyone is doing that then of course the economic button is absolutely astronomical and yes absolutely the only way were going to be able to fix this is with rejuvenation technologies as a result of which we will have of course far more older people chronologically old but far fewer sick people and therefore we will save a huge amount of money so will poor people be able to get access to this rejuvenation therapy will it be affordable. Oh yes and it will be affordable precisely because of my previous answer from the point of view of the government in any country you are look at whatever the political whatever whatever kind of country any country will be far more expensive to let people get sick just because they cant afford these therapies than to keep people healthy in other words they for peace will pay for themselves exactly exact mechanism of how this is done of course will vary from one country to another depending on whether they have private health depending on whether you know its a democracy or not but the ultimate logic will apply across the board the ferry police will be enormously economically valuable and therefore it will be economically absolutely imperative for any country to ensure that everybody rich everybody who is old enough to need them gets them even if they cant afford to pay for them themselves so lets say those in positions of power whether its politicians or Business Models go through rejuvenation therapy every couple of decades i mean they could just stay there forever never letting anyone new in their circle all of that number seriously what will the absence of the great equalizer do to the way our society is functioning. So of course i dont know precisely how the world is going to develop once we dont have aging anymore you know the world will be very different and a whole lot of ways because of People Living longer people not getting sick people you know just being able to carry on contributing wealth to society maybe we will develop ways to incentivize people to step down and have new careers you know just make them pay higher taxes the longer they stay in the same job things like that you know there are a 1000000 ways to solve these problems we just another detail yet but we dont need to know. So you dont think about how thats going to affect humanity in our societies coming up with something so groundbreaking as antiaging medicine. Let me be clear i certainly think about these things but i also recognize that im not an economist im not a politician im not a theologian you know im a biologist so all im doing is telling the people who are professional economists and so on whats going to happen and roughly how soon its going to happen so they can do their job figuring out how society should now the guy that transition so like rerunning out of space on this planet already theyve this earth is overpopulated where will we all leave and how will we sustain ourselves i mean if we assume it wont be just a chosen few like you say and there will be enough for juvenalia people to make an impact. Right so we have to look at what other technologies are coming along at the moment youre quite right we already have the problem of overpopulation thats why we have Climate Change but the solution to that is not necessarily to have fewer people but rather to reduce the amount of pollution that people generates whether its by. Moving from fossil fuels to Renewable Energy or whether its with artificial meats or whether its with large scale desalination you know there are lots of lots of technologies that are already coming along and coming along even without the society having really woken up to the problem of Climate Change just coming along because the proving to be cheaper and they original to save those technologies are going to increase the carrying capacity of the planets going to mean that we can have a lot more people on the planet with less Environmental Impact than we have today. Thats the way we need to think about this already the problem is being solved and if you ask questions like how rapidly will the population rise as a result of the end of ageing the actual arithmetic is not particularly scary you know the moment weve got 7 and a half 1000000000 people people think by 2050 we might have 9000000000 or 10000000000 we certainly wont have more than 11 or 12000000000 even if we completely eliminate ageing tomorrow. So do you see people who know they will leave longer having fewer kids are a possibility that were production could be less important in future will of course were certainly saying today its pretty much universal i think the only exception in the history of civilization is israel almost universally well and the country reaches a certain level of prosperity and female amounts of patient education then the photos he writes goes down dramatically and thats a big thing that we need to take into account which is. Not only do women on average have fewer kids but also they tend to have them later than they otherwise than they previously you. Know because its only a little bit lighter moment because very little pause exists in other words theres only so late you can go before you can have at the top and people want to have kids at some point but menopause is one of the things thats going to go away were going to be able to make it safe of kids at any age so the 1st reaction to that may be that means that the average woman is going to have more kids in the top in their entire life because theyre going to carry on having them but if we take into account this delay that were seeing we can ask well ok this delay happened because women choosing to ready do other things with their life before they do this terribly time consuming thing of having kids so if they come that its likely that on average theyre going to do having their 1st kid by another deca