Came over the senate we had the trial the house and a sort of historic came over the senate we had the trial the house and sort of historic. Change lost seats the House Republicans all seats. Change lost seats the House Republicans all seats so you know its youve got to be very careful how you proceed on this the best so you know its youve got to be very careful how you proceed on this the best way if you want to move a president is called an election but also the best way if you want to move a president is called an election but also there are good lawyers im sure and partisans on both sides of the hour that there are good lawyers im sure and partisans on both sides of the aisle that bill like you know there are things here that need to be looked into the question is how do you feel like you know there are things here that need to be looked into the question is how do you. Do it and what is the in result going to be in terms of you know you do it and what is the in result going to be in terms of you know the country itself it really what bothers me is that the congress is not the country itself it really bothers me is that the congress is not doing anything now theyre not doing anything about Immigration Reform in this country theyre not doing anything about doing anything now theyre not doing anything about Immigration Reform in this country theyre not doing anything about infrastructure one good thing about what we went through with clinton is we got infrastructure one good thing about what we went through with clinton is we right up until we began the trial and i made a day after we went right back to legislature right up until we began the trial and i made a day after we went right back to legislating now they the house can do that because only one committee but now they the house can do that because only one committee normally the Judiciary Committee would be meeting but once it gets to the senate if you have a full normally the Judiciary Committee would be meeting but once it gets to the senate if you have a full blown senate trial every senator must be at his or her desk and ice but wont senate trial every senator must be at his or her desk and they spin every day every afternoon from 12 to 6 usually with all senate and every day every afternoon from 12 to 6 usually with all senators sitting there so the other legislative business stops are sitting there so the other legislative business stops on the impeachment process how has nancy pelosi in your opinion on the impeachment process how has nancy pelosi in your opinion handled it to this moment well let me point out handled it to this moment. Well let me point out that as you noted in the intro i did serve on the Judiciary Committee when i was a 1st at the as you noted in the intro i did serve on the Judiciary Committee when i was a 1st term congressman way back in 1973 and 74 so i saw it firsthand up close term congressman way back in 1973 and 74 so i saw it firsthand up close what is supposed to happen in the Judiciary Committee in the house was what is supposed to happen in the Judiciary Committee in the house which i served on and which peter rodino from new jersey chaired. Which i served on in which peter rodino from new jersey chaired it was sort of done by the book and of course i also was majority leader when we had the amp a sort of done by the book and of course i also was majority leader when we had the impeachment trial of William Jefferson clinton a trial that i knew from the beginning as a trial of William Jefferson clinton a trial that i knew from the beginning as an old whip Office Holder and counter i knew how to count the votes in old whip officeholder and counter i knew how to count the votes i could not see how we were going to get the votes to remove president clinton from office. So i could not see how we were going to get the boat to remove president clinton from office so the challenge for me and for the democratic leader tom daschle was how do we set though the challenge for me and for the democratic leader tom daschle was how do we set those up in a way that the people felt like we did our job we did it thoroughly we went through the step in a way that the people felt like we did our job we did it thoroughly we went through the process we had depositions we had debate we discussed it the chief justice a process we had depositions we had debate we discussed it the chief justice for as i did but at the end of the day when the vote occurred it was all were and were a presided but at the end of the day when the vote occurred it was all were and we were able to move on and do other things for the country now thats a real challenge and were about to go to move on and do other things for the country now thats a real challenge and were about to have to test that Speaker Pelosi has been careful thats one reason why ive had to test that Speaker Pelosi has been careful thats one reason why the house has not yet voted for the more traditional resolution that would begin the the house has not yet voted for the more traditional resolution that would begin the impeachment proceedings in the Judiciary Committee and thats where i believe reside impeachment proceedings in the Judiciary Committee and thats where i believe resides so while shes taken some criticism for not doing it its so while shes taken some criticism for not doing it that way by republicans i think its cause shes waiting to see a little bit happen that way by republicans i think its cause shes waiting to see a little bit how this plays out what the evidence was the mullah report did not cut this plays out what the evidence was the mullah report did not come forward with the type of information that people say can pay for what might have wanted so. I would with the type of men from ation that people say can piece what might have wanted so she used you know thought of taking her time i guess the answer will be when she say she has the votes to use you know thought of taking her time i guess the answer will be when she say she has the votes in the time is ready in the house as best she can determine it she will proceed in the time is ready in the house as best she can determine it she will proceed but shes an old experienced hand you cannot underestimate Speaker Pelosi but shes an older experienced hand you know you cannot underestimate Speaker Pelosi did the Founding Fathers make a mistake did the Founding Fathers make a mistake when they call the high crimes and misdemeanors. When they call the high crimes and misdemeanors do we understand that i dont think we really do do we understand that. I dont think we really do and perhaps its in the mind of the holder or it depends on how a person will and perhaps its in the mind of the holder or depends on how a person will define it but the constitution itself is very limited in what it says define it but the constitution itself is very limited in what it says about impeachment but if you go back and read the federalist papers with their guard to impeachment is about impeachment but if you go back and read the federalist papers with their guard to impeachment Alexander Hamilton and madison had some very clear thoughts about why that might be necessary Alexander Hamilton and madison had some very clear thoughts about why that might be necessary and how it should be done they were very specific but for instance area and how it should be done they were very specific but for instance i dont know how they would have defined misdemeanors but im under the impression so i dont know how they would have defined misdemeanors but im under the impression that mr meter in their mind was a more serious charge then we entered that mr meter in their mind was a more serious charge then we interpret it today misdemeanor today as a a minor criminal by a later date today misdemeanor today as a a minor criminal violation or maybe even you know is it a distilling something wrong so i mean are maybe even you know is it a distilling something wrong so i think they thought it was more serious than it now is interpreted so i think they thought it was more serious than it now is interpreted so they thought i would have something more than high crimes and not too serious cratloe they thought of it as something more than high crimes and not too serious crimes they thought of both of them as a pretty serious matter and that thats the thing you have they thought of both of them as a pretty serious matter and that thats the thing you have to prove and its quite often very hard to prove is lying prove and its quite often very hard to prove is lying to a grand jury. A crime it is certainly a grand jury. Crime it is certainly more than a misdemeanor or is obstruction of justice. More than a misdemeanor or is obstruction of justice crime in my mind it could be and that was the conclusion im in my mind it could be and that was the conclusion i basically came to with regard to president nixon and there was the smoking gun obviously came to with regard to president nixon and there was the smoking gun the actual tape of him giving instructions that could run the actual tape of him giving instructions that could certainly be interpreted as an instruction of justice speaking and that we certainly be interpreted as an instruction of justice speaking and that we now have an actual phone call between an american president and a song 10 shall have an actual phone call between an american president and a song to entry 3 to 4 different occasions now others have backed up that call 334 different occasions now others have backed up that call asking him this foreign country to investigate a political asking him this foreign country to investigate a political rival. As in that disturb you well if it dont rival. As in that disturb you well it it disturbs me is a lot of things disturb me about that number one you know its derb me is a lot of things disturb me about that number one you know looking at it from the presidency standpoint i dont stand while these people released now looking at it from the presidency standpoint i dont stand while these people were listening in a conversation or while there were all these recordings we would think president s would have you know a conversation. While there were all these recordings we would think president s would have learned for president nixon recording what goes on roll in the oval office not a great idea some learned for president nixon recording what goes on roll in the oval office and not a great idea secondly to be talking to the leader of another country about investec atlee to be talking to the leader of another country about investigating corruption or investigating a person could be a political getting corruption or investigating a person could be a political opponent. That is disturbing but i think for ill opponent. That is disturbing but i think for it to be something beyond that they would have to be clear quid pro quo if you get to be something beyond that they would have to be clear quid pro quo if you dont do this were not going to do that or vice versa but its an area you dont do this were not going to do that or vice versa but its an area that is being looked into then the question is is it being looked that is being looked into then the question is has it been looked into and a proper way and thats one thing i always appreciated about that in 2 and a proper way and thats one thing i always appreciated about the Judiciary Committee when i was a freshman house member 32 years old sitting on that committee traditionally committee when i was a freshman house member 32 years old sitting on that Committee Peter rodino the chairman was very fair in the way he way allowed republicans peter rodino the chairman was very fair in the way he way allowed republicans to ask questions to have witnesses im selves and ask questions to have witnesses im selves and and for me personally hell allowed me to engage in the debate and for me personally. Heel allowed me to engage in the debate against one of the articles and sleep page one which we did defeat against one of the articles and sleep page one which we did defeat so how you do Something Like this is almost as important so how you do Something Like this is almost as important as what do you do you need to do it carefully and by the book and what do you do you need to do it carefully and by the book and make sure that it well for instance when i 1st met with my reply to sure that and well for instance when i 1st met with my republican conference about how to proceed on the clinton matter i had a process in my novel can conference about how to proceed on the clinton matter i had a process in mind that would have been concluded in about 2 weeks without any depositions or witnesses i mean it would have been concluded in about 2 weeks without any depositions or witnesses i mean things like that my own republican conference pushback said oh no you know what you did things like that my own republican conference pushback said oh no you know what youre doing youre trying to short circuit this and we need to do this by the book we know youre trying to short circuit this we need to do this by the book we need to have the full hearings we need to have senators in the seats the chief justice sitting there we need to have the full hearings we need to have senators in the seats the chief justice sitting there we need to take depositions we need to have formal questions and so to take depositions we need to have formal questions and so i revised how we were going to do it and it wound up taking about a month but at the end and i revised how we were going to do it and it wound up taking about a month but at the end of that month most people whether they agreed or disagreed with the final result that month most. People whether they agreed or disagreed with the final result felt like it was done properly as required by the constitution all felt like it was done properly as required by the constitution you voted for guilty right i did vote for the 2 article you voted for guilty right i did vote for the 2 articles of impeachment one interesting thing about that did that on a friday hold of impeachment one interesting thing about that did that on a friday tom daschle and i shook hands in the Center Island and agreed a tom daschle and i shook hands in the Center Island and agreed that we had done the job the best we could and i fair and bipartisan that we had done the job the best we could and i fair and bipartisan way a week later actually following thursday i got a call from president clay a week later actually on a following thursday i got a call from president clinton he wanted to talk to be about a bill it was a big bail in fact a number but he wont talk to me about a bill it was a big bill in fact i never have been able to recall exactly what it was but he wanted me to see if we could move this bill along through the print able to recall exactly what it was but he wanted me to see if we could move this bill along through the process he didnt mention how i had voted he didnt even mention the impeachment trial we just says he didnt mention how i had voted he didnt even mention the impeachment trial we just went on with our business and in the next few years did several good things went on with our business and in the next few years did several good things for the country working together youve got to have that when the Senate Getting set for the country working together youve got to have that when the senate gets this to trial the 16 chief justice conducts the trial this trial the 16 chief justice conducts the trial. Can you honestly say that every cent of the sentence you knew took is can you honestly say that every cent of the sentence you knew to consuming asli and voted their conscience absolutely seemingly and voted their conscience absolutely and we did a lot of things that were were different for instance we couldnt decide really how to proceed and we did a lot of things that were were different for instance we couldnt decide really how to proceed so i finally came up with idea of ok well all go meet in the Old Senate Seat so i finally came out with that idea of ok well all go meet in the Old Senate Chamber no staff no press just senators and i asked denny akaka from the chamber no staff no press just senators and i asked denny akaka from hawaii to open a session with god it was a prayer that hopefully we would be a little white open a session with god it was a prayer that hopefully we would be led to do the right thing in that meeting and i called on senator byrd who was so led to do the right thing in that meeting and i called on senator byrd who was sort of the historian of the senate to give us a brief tutorial on what the constitution requires the historian of the senate to give us a brief tutorial on what the constitution required and then we opened up a discussion and to our surprise senator graham a card and then we opened up a discussion and to our surprise senator gramm of texas spoke a conservative republican followed by senator ted kennedy spoke a conservative republican followed by senator ted kennedy of massachusetts and as i listened to him it sounded like they were saying the same thing today of massachusetts and as i listen to him it sounded like they were saying the same thing and so we came together and said ok were going to go forward with the graham thing and so we came together and said ok were going to go forward with the graham. Kennedy proposal tom daschle asked me later did i really know for sure what kennedy proposal tom daschle asked me later did i really know for sure what wed agreed to and i told him no but we had agreed and so i suggested what wed agreed to and i told him no but we had agreed and so i suggested said tom look i think we have a good idea what want to do here but you say in a couple of years said tom look i think we have a an idea what want to do here but you send a couple of your senators and ill send a couple of mine and t