Transcripts For RT SophieCo. Visionaries 20240713 : vimarsan

RT SophieCo. Visionaries July 13, 2024

A cascade and a contagion. Will be a continuation of the 2008 crisis but much it. Will be a continuation of the 2008 crisis but much much more. Much more. Hello welcome to visionary. Hoping will come to visionary. Hoping fantasizing believing all the same natural things fantasizing believing all the same natural things for humans. But can we choose what we believe and for humans. Can we choose what we believe and why do we believe in it in the 1st place well ask Michael Shermer psychologists why do we believe in the 1st place well ask Michael Shermer psychologist Science Writer and founder of the skeptic magazine. Science writer and founder of the skeptic magazine. Michael shermer welcome to the show its great to have you with us. Michael shermer welcome to the show its great to have you with us lots to talk about many psychologists yourself including. Lots to talk about many psychologists to yourself including say that believing improbable things is innate for humans so say that believing improbable things is innate for humans so our religion is basically and necessary mechanism that sort of our religion basically necessary mechanism that sort of. Mother nature has provided us with to survive. Mother nature has provided us with to survive be happy in reality which is often dire you know i think this road map the reality which is often dire. Yeah i think thats right in a its a strong word but what i mean by beliefs being a strong word but what i mean by beliefs being naturally born inside of this is that our inclination is to try to understand the world can have be born inside of this is that our inclination is to try to understand the world can add a to b. Thats called learning association learning whether its like classical conditioning like a to be thats called learning association learning whether its like classical conditioning like pavlovs dog or or operant conditioning like skinners rats its connected dog or or operant conditioning like skinners rats its connecting one thing to another in the environment to try and understand causality in one thing to another in the environment to try and understand causality all organisms do it so my little thought experiment is imagine youre on a hominid on the plains of after all organisms do it so my little thought experiment is imagine youre on a hominid on the plains of africa 3000000 years ago and you hear a rustle in the grass is it a dangerous predator forget 3000000 years ago and you hear rustle in the grass is it a dangerous predator or is it just the wind now if you assume the wrestle in the grass is a dangerous predator or is it just the wind now if you assume the wrestle in the grass is a dangerous predator and it turns out its just just the when youve made a type one or a false positive you thought there was a real and it turns out its just just the when youve made a type one or a false positive you thought there was a real connection has no connection but no harm you just kind of run away but if you think the rest of connection has no connection but no harm you just kind of run away but if you think the rustle in the grass is a day is that is just the wind it turns out its a dangerous predator in the grass is a day is that is just the wind it turns out its a dangerous predator your lunch youve just been munched and taken out of the gene pool so your lunch youve just been munched and. Digging out of the gene pool so my argument is that we evolved the capacity to assume that all rustles in the grass my argument is that we evolved the capacity to assume that all rustles in the grass are dangerous predators instead of just the wind and therefore we are dangerous predators instead of just the wind and therefore we tend to believe things that are not true just in case because some of them are true we tend to believe things that are not true just in case because some of them are true and therefore believing weird things by the way its called superstition or magical thinking and therefore believing weird things by the way its called superstition or magical thinking believing weird things like that is not a bug in the system its believing weird things like this is not a bug in the system its a feature that comes equipped in the software of our programming to feature comes equipped in the software of our programming to try to connect things in the environment just in case theres a real connection. To try to connect things in the environment just in case theres a real connection all right so. Youre saying believes are almost restraint by comments right so. Youre saying believes are almost restraint by common sense just like youre writing bait helps to harness an emotional horse but sense just like youre writing bait helps to harness an emotional horse but this horse well still go where and where if it once this horse well you know it still go where and where if it once are you saying that our emotional self will always take over that rational one are you saying that our emotional self will always take over that rational one yes well we are both rational and emotional that is reason yes well we are both rational and him. That is reason is a tool that we use to try to understand how the world works is a tool that we use to try to understand how the world works emotions are also kind of a tool its a way of reasoning very quickly emotions are also kind of a tool its a way of reasoning very quickly so evolution designed our emotions to drive us to do think so evolution designed our emotions to drive us to do things so you dont have to calculate how many calories your body needs it in a given day so you dont have to calculate how many calories your body needs it in a given day you just feel hungry so that emotion of hunger drives you to eat something you just feel hungry so that emotion of hunger drives you to eat something and then when youre satisfied youve had enough you no longer have that feeling or desire to be a trend then when youre satisfied youve had enough you no longer have that feeling or desire to be attracted to somebody else this is an evolved trait that helps the species perpetrated you crack to disarm by the else this is an evolved trait that helps the species perpetrated you have sex and children and so on but no one calculates exactly why you have sex and children and so on but no one calculates exactly why theyre attracted to somebody else you know the waist to hip ratio or the cement summitry ok theyre attracted to somebody else you know the waist to hip ratio or the cement summitry of their faces or the complection of their skin no one does those calculations you just feel attracted to somebody or faces of the complection of their skin no one does those calculations you just feel attracted to somebody so in that sense things emotions like anger and jealousy and so in that sense things emotions like anger and jealousy and you know those sorts of things theyre a way of reasoning about the world very quickly and you know those sorts of things theyre a way. Of reasoning about the world very quickly this call rapid cognition you just have a good to know sense about something and were pretty good call rapid cognition you just have a good to know sense about something and were pretty good about this with people for example if you have a sense like this person i dont have a good good about this with people for example if you have a sense like this person i dont have a good feeling about him i dont trust him i dont know what it is i just dont feel right about feeling about him i dont trust him i dont know what it is i just dont feel right about or the situation youre in those are usually pretty accurate feelings that we have or the situation youre in those are usually pretty accurate feelings that we have but its not its not psychic power its its a way of reasoning very rapid but its not its not psychic power its its a way of reasoning very rapidly about the environment youre picking things up from the from the environment you dont know what they are i dont know what theyre really about the environment youre picking things up from the from the environment you dont know what they are i dont know what there is but its just a feeling you get and thats actually a good trait that we have well ok but its just a feeling you get and thats actually a good trait that we have well ok let me take this a little step further lets let me take this a little step further lets talk about whats real or not at the end of the day what we do decide about whats real or not at the end of the day what we do decipher is real right because many we now and physicists. For is real right because many we now and physicists have talked to for instance he says she is suggesting that everything that we think is for instance he says she is suggesting that everything that we think is real and might just be. When you think its real and might just be. What do you think. Yeah i i dont think thats correct at the level that which which well yeah i i dont think thats correct at the level that which which we live that is the macro physical world but michio is talking about their lives that is the macro physical world but michio is talking about there or brian cox or any of the physicists that study quantum physics for example theyre talking about this or brian cox or any of the physicists that study quantum physics for example theyre talking about the subatomic particle and this is a very different world it is the size of adams subatomic particle and this is a very different world it is the size of adams if you had like a tennis ball here is the nucleus of the atom and the electrons if you had like a tennis ball here as the nucleus of the atom and the electrons going around it sort of the Energy Shield or field of the electrons going around going around it sort of the Energy Shield or a field of the electrons going around it these would be like blocks away from the little tennis ball here its motion it these would be like blocks away from the little tennis ball here its mostly empty space the atom is mostly empty space so thats why people some sleep empty space the atom is mostly empty space so thats why people new age group talk about you know this chair is completely empty or or this is a new age group to talk about you know this chair is completely empty or or this is really empty space yeah but not at the macro level at the macro level the atoms are so tightly really empty space yeah but not at the macro level at the macro level the atoms are so tightly bound that essentially this chair that im sitting in is not empty space its a sum bound that essentially this chair that im sitting in is not empty space its a solid thing thats why i dont fall through it and and have a little accident here so thats why i dont fall through it and and have a little accident here. At the macro level its not an illusion what we see and feel it at the macro level its not an illusion what we see and feel is it is a fairly active. Natural. There are some people that are there are some people that argue that are you this or this. What is it like to be this a problem of what its like to be i can get at like i cant know what its like to be a bag because i dont have sonar this echolocation system and the big old know what its like to be a bag because i dont have sonar this echolocation system and the big ears to pick up the sound bouncing up objects in the brain apparatus the ears to pick up the sound bouncing up objects in the brain apparatus to process the sound information and so on i can know what its like to be a bad abbess to process the sound information and so on i can know what its like to be a bad back cant know what its like to be me and so whatever lets say that cant know what its like to be me and so whatever lets say a thing in the environment looks like to a bat it probably doesnt look like that to me we probably have very different thing in the environment looks like to a bat it probably doesnt look like that to me we probably have very different images of what the world looks like but theyre still really as say a wall here and images of what the world looks like but theyre still really is say a wall here and if the bat is flying toward it its going to move around the wall and i see the wall and if the bat is flying toward it its going to move around the wall and i see the wall right all the while the bad he fears the wall that all the all the sensory apparatus at his deer different than the wall the sensory apparatus is different than process well see in the center at 3 am for sure our mission is different probably to weve also seen the sensor meaning from the batter mation is different between but me i mean the bat avatar was really our walls oh. Really there really are things there are things that we have to now we havent got the data around having on in the world around in the world so that so that part is not part is not an illusion thats reality so i argue that we evolve senses that an illusion thats reality so i argue that we evolve senses that give us a fairly accurate portrait of what the world is really like give us a fairly accurate portrait of what the world is really like and in the best tool we have for understanding that world is science because subject and the best tool we have for understanding that world is science because subjectively you and i may be wrong or or or distorted or you know our or you and i may be wrong or or or distorted or in our or suffering from illusions but collectively we can get an accurate picture of the world ok so well what about creativity how dass creativity of fact our ability to believe in things does that mean that the richer mention a shallow what about creativity how dast creativity of fact arab and we have the more likely we are to believe we are at stuff or not necessarily ability to believe in things does that mean that the rich are mention ation we have the more likely we are to believe we are at stuff or not necessarily i think theres a relationship between this and the believing brain i. Toyed with the idea that i think theres a relationship between this and the believing brain i. Toyed with the idea that this relationship between say madness and creativity or that that people are that this relationship between say madness and creativity or that that people are who are very open to new ideas they can they make connections that across disciplines or new fields that you and i maybe wouldnt make a but that theyre so open to new ideas they also believe a lot of wacky ideas who are very. Open to new ideas they can they make connections across disciplines or new fields that you and i maybe wouldnt make but that theyre so open to new ideas they also believe a lot of wacky ideas so for example i know a lot of really smart people nobel Prize Winners and so on they believe the weird so for example i know a lot of really smart people nobel Prize Winners and so what they believe the weirdest things like what and in part i sometimes wonder if its been so things like what and part i sometimes wonder if its been so like 911 was a conspiracy or that astrology works or that e. S. P. Is that like 911 was a conspiracy or that astrology works or that e. S. P. Is real these kinds of things that most scientists and skeptics are skeptical they think theyre much real these kinds of things that most scientists and skeptics are skeptical they think there might be something to this talk and in the believe in brain about kary mullis who won the nobel prize be something to this i talked in the believe in brain about kary mullis who won the nobel prize for his work in genetics the p. C. R. Technique of taking allays for his work in genetics the p. C. R. Technique of taking a little snippet of d. N. A. And then reproducing that its a very common technique carrying little snippet of d. N. A. And then reproducing that its a very common technique that carry most super interesting super smart creative guy he drum he dreamt up this super interesting super smart creative guy he drum he dreamt up this this solution to this problem for which he won the nobel prize while he was surfing and this solution to this problem for which he won the nobel prize while he was surfing and smoking pot and just kind of having a creative moment out in nature you know and smoking pot and just kind of having a creative moment out in nature you know. Like you and i are not going to have that kind of experience all right or einstein has this dream like us. I are not going to have that kind of experience all right or einstein has this dream of flying on a beam of light yeah whoa ok i dont have dreams like emo fly on a beam of light yeah whoa ok i dont have dreams like that but but that kind of openness and creativity might that but but that kind of openness and creativity might lead you to think well all these other things are real not all of them are real it leads you to think well all these other things are real not all of them are real sometimes theyre Creative Ideas you come up with are just bonzo theyre just great crazy theyre theyre sometimes theyre Creative Ideas you come up with are just bonzo theyre just great crazy theyre theyre crackerjack theyre not really 3 and i read so the real god here and the. Mind is to have a mind. To accept random medical now if you create a bit of ideas that no one else is up to radical new Creative Ideas that no one else has thought of that turn out to be right but not so open minded that you burn out every to be one iraqi i did it because i was but not so open minded that you believe every wacky idea that comes down the pike and so you know when people say well you know they laughed at that they laughed at gallaudet on the pike and so you know when people say well you know they laughed at they laughed at galileo they laughed at the Wright Brothers you know its like well they laughed at the Marx Brothers being laughed at does it mean you know they laughed at the Wright Brothers you know its like well they laughed at the Marx Brothers being laughed at does that mean youre right so for every galileo. Theres 10000 others right so for every galileo. Theres 10000 other scientists who had creative new i have no idea as they were wrong they were wrong and i think and these people all the these people all the time they send me they send me their letters every week of new theories that they have most of which are couple time they send me they send me their letters every week. New theories that they have most of which are completely and comprehensible so its not that being creative and having a new idea means youre clean comprehensible so its not that being creative and having a new idea means youre right and you should win the nobel prize most new ideas even in science even better right and you should win the nobel prize most new ideas even in science even by professional scientists are not right. So professional scientists are not right. So just one final point. Just because you brought up science is just one final point. Just because you brought up science is just really interesting i want to ask you because im hurt

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