Basically a conditionality model and. You didnt do this i give you that price so that is taken care of too its a basic choice approach or you will do this if i offer you something if you dont believe there wont be and it was for you and thats how its been working for. 20 years now it was very successful in the countries from Central Europe which were all over the spot i spy ring naturally to be members of the opinion doesnt really require here that well this is the 1st thing the 2nd thing is its not applied its. Consistently here so i would say the major problem with european is asia and the e. U. Enlargement process in the western balkans is the application of the more that and we see this possibility on both sides european officials dont apply as they did in the ninetys for example. But also the western balkans leaders tried to escape when they ever day and the kind of a rule that would make them follow the line now 1st of all lets agree on the terms you mentioned here a piano zation what is it specifically what values what feature is make up the war of the european athens in whose image they are there is have to be remade well its its been set up all of the in the beginning of the ninetys and its still like that so its the night in 93. 00 copenhagen create tyria establish your will over law functioning market economy for democracy and within democracy protection of minority rights the problem is that in the western balkans. After 2000 and especially over the past the 78 or 10 years we have of the climb better visible decline in all of these crew so the market is not functioning efficiently according to. The competitive gritty of you know we have them across to decline very visible democracy decline. We have not always but we have problems with protection of minorities. In some and some places or at least some kind of problem with between majority and minority but the major problem is there were flaws we simply not only serbia but everywhere in the western balkans have a judiciary and Public Prosecutors which are under the heavy influence of politicians now i know that you specifically identify state capture that is the misuse of state funds for private and political benefit as the main obstacle to your europeanization but some would say that this kind of france seeking and selfserving behavior could be found within the court ear itself in countries like cyprus or italy do you think youre of the old. Has itself leaned up to the standards of europeanization that it tries to hold others to you could also have mentioned the paul or. Hungary right over the past several years right the problem with the origin of the problem is that the European Union the is not able to solve this problem weve been utopian you know with these crimes because hungary Czech Republic poland are the members of the European Union right now and you dont have states capture there are you also. The theatre nation of other very important create the area to have established member theyre not able to solve this there of course then they are not able to solve this in the west and baucus when this is running much much larger scale. In this country its always been a big. Shift to many observers that former soviet satellites like bulgaria romania poland became members of the European Union before the constituent parts of former and now on the line yugoslavia having looked at how those various countries measure against the yardstick are you sure that its always been a function of jaynie and democratic or Economic Development rather than lets say geo political expediency i would say that is one of the geopolitics in this process and of course the European Union wants to bring to take in these countries who have some kind of shields. Other other countries especially russia maybe some some other countries but i think that. In 1809 when the berlin wall came down i think that the during the night these and even after 2000 the majority of the prevalent to more than discounted is was that they want to join europe in. Paul and sort of example i mean this goes without saying just like paul rudd so they wanted to join European Union more than anything else because they want to sell some kind of protection from russia you know this is all that matters right there will be about the countries wanting to join i mean obviously much of Eastern Europe and that i wanted to join not only because of the quality of Democratic Institutions but i assume also because of the quality of life and economic benefits but speaking about poland you mentioned that there has been a deterioration in democratic progress across eastern and some within 5 Cross Western europe lately and. You know the popular narrative in the west is that in countries where russia is present thats understandable because russia is supporting autocratic tendencies etc but poland is very notable. Example contrary to die theory because its been staunchly and to russian for a number here is and yet as we all know theres been a backsliding on democracy how do you explain it and isnt it perhaps isnt it perhaps an indication that the way people thought about democratization. 20 years ago is not accurate its far more complex than perhaps violence lay near them i would say i would explain the polish case very similar to the one gettin case and some cases in the western balkans all has to do with the way the countries were democrats and what happened with the distribution of resources basic resources i think that in in polish case and other cases i mention the 1st couple of decades saw them. Improving go for material wealth or whatever system but the genuinely these these peoples they saw the whole process unjust or. There is a polish origin political scientists. Who mention this to night the night the one so even the process of democratization europeanization is not fair so that everybody stand to benefit those who are the losers they will get back and they will the strike back so i think this is whats happening in poland this is whats happened whats happening im going to this whats happening in serbia and some western balkan balkan countries so i have to also innocent germany and these are men who do you know thats right so now there comes the opinion you and you and the enlargement process this self i think that the european officials dont really recognize that so they dont they support i mean when it comes to the balkan countries they support the balkan out of credits they simply pay no attention to whats happening today and i think this is what is genuinely putting the whole thing in danger let me just mention one thing for example in a couple of years back in serbia. Group of masked people tore down several factors of houses and buildings in the downtown of belgrade. 3 years on we have no idea what happened who did that the Public Prosecutor is not saying and. Right and the European Union is not saying dont do such or. Such are huge violation of the rule of law now this is the most interesting part that this could have never been told that the german in berlin this could have never been tolerated yes european officials mention this at no point while at this point here are not officially a member of a european every month they have an excuse of not interfering in into the affairs all obeyed they came into the theater because there are certain chapters which set certain standards that the aspiring countries has to fulfill and those shots are 22242324 its long been believed that the enlargement policy has dual objectives democratizing Eastern European countries as well as fulfilling the e. U. Foreign policy agenda one element of which is to keep russia at bay to keep its influence minimized and yet i get it from your writing that it its not always working as intended and sometimes they say and to russians trick is actually contributing to the rise of autocratic leaders and these toleration of the lack of the rule of law that you mention how does it work. In some confidence you will find the other objective about having a con to the democrat ties and then at the same time be. Serving as a shield against russia is work for example take an example montenegro despite very massive population support Popular Support for russia the monthly need to be in leaders somehow managed to get the government and you go into nato and you know induction of all democratic way are right but it doesnt really work everywhere so supporting out the krauts in the balkans could. Ends the way it did in montenegro so it will become one day. Part of the European Union needs all of the part of nato but it would be a it could end up in a different way so one of some of these countries could go closer to russia so serbia is one of this country which is neither here nor there in the foreseeable future it will surely never become part of nato but will go closer to russia we dont know that Public Service cause a part of. The same thing is on the our north mustard on the on the rule of nickel and whoever skit was doing the same thing so and he was heavily supported by the european official i mean one of the foreign minister was even coming to his electoral rally a couple of days before the elections to give him pats on the back and they give him up a european supporter do i understand you correctly because i mean they they can pick a european narrative has that moscow supporting autocrats because they are more amenable to. The kremlin from the herion a. Essentially saying that brussels is guilty of the same charge that it supports leaders with finds more amenable or easier to deal with whether it is for stability or for geo political purposes i would say its maybe not in this world but i would say if we see in the future that some balkan countries are driving away from european these asian union then going closer to russia one part of the responsibility will be with utopian the solutions and so the whole process of enlargement i think have to be rethought if you will especially when it comes to its applicability how you are ply all these standards are you consistent or do you have double standards maybe someone thats i think what should be thought serbia as you mentioned is an interesting example because it tries to strike a balance between the e. U. And russia and there are multiple accusations that president of which is has been is european power and controlling of the media etc but he also appointed. The 1st openly gay Prime Minister which is a major progressive milestone for this country is serbia indeed more european that is then it has to be is it being europeanized or isnt just trying to look at a part you know. I mean we have Prime Minister who is openly gay but thats all fake i mean fake in terms of. Promoting European Values because the major thing the state capture extraction of publicly sources from private about things and this is whats going on right now if a gay Prime Minister is not really putting be seen then ger the political elite is 5 with us and with many other things right as far as long as extraction is untouched the state capture is untouched everything is acceptable and even the European Union is acceptable at the moment in this i think that the major thing that european officials have to understand the moment european officials seriously questions about extraction about state capture in the west and balak as they will get in the conflict and serious conflict with a lot of labels well professor polish we have to take a short break well be back in just a few moments. Drew descriptions sound up to tell using even for the owners so how to choose the Food Industry is telling us what to feed our pets really more based on what they want to sound us than was necessarily good for the pet. Food may not be associated people believe we have animals that have you know diabetes and. They have auto immune. Disorders the allergies we are actually creating these problems its a huge of a democrat problems i believe can be linked to very simple problems. And some dog owners so heartbreaking stories about their pets streets the larger corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the value of their food because theyre already making it to 1000000000. 00 on it and theres no reason to do that research. Welcome back to worlds apart with dish and pile of asia associate professor in the faculty of Political Science at the university of belgrade professor probably before the break we talked about how the large one is perceived outside the e. U. Lets now discuss about how its seen on the inside im sure youve seen this latest interview d in the economist magazine the french president emmanuelle macross gave for only stated that there would be no further e. U. Enlargement until the membership procedures are formed do you take that as just postering which is not entirely for into mishear mccraw or do you think its a wider shot as far as the e. U. Neighborhood policy is concerned i think that the. French president actually expressed the idea which is pretty consistent with what weve been talking in the 1st part of the news that everybody sees that something is going wrong with the process of course what part of the problem is not only happening in the western balkans but part of the problem is with European Union itself because the union is undergoing. Pretty huge sure changes and i think that some things that he mentioned in this interview hall for a total revision of the whole approach to European Union rights for example one thing that i think is very important is that that is that there was a huge change in the u. S. And the u. S. Was a country which basically provide security. For European Union rather know this country is now changing its mr trump wins yet another term this is 4 years of this change that will be applied and everybody will feel the consequences now this calls for reform of the opinion of the position of the European Union in the world right now you have on your borders countries like russia you have chinese or some somebody there is terry k. 30 war in syria this is war very close to your door maybe we should think about already organisation a Security System and if we do this what kind of position the western balkans country should be. Going to understand well but i think if it was not only about the western balkans per se i mean he was speaking about that and the larger context accepting new members and we all know that he wasnt just you know putting ideas on the table france is actually blocking membership talks for any and north of the cydonia it has come up with its own system 7 step system of i think they call it a gradual association not even accession do you think there is any chance of that system being accepted by are they are people countries given that they all called the statements a historic mistake do they have a choice not to i think its going to some version of this will be accepted because its a very nice way. To have a cake and eat it still read so this is a no without saying no he will say ok we are continuing our on our path of integrating more confidence but essential is going to be a prolonged or a long long way until we reach the 7 step right and with my b. S. Several decades right you could see immediately after they explicitly say i was the european officials that basically said no to the north macedonians in the bay area what kind of problem with colds and so pretty basic diplomatic rule is dont say no explicitly just to put it in some kind of. Very nice wording good that everybody wants a in that same interview president across the thinking about the e. U. Neighborhood policy in terms of access to the e. U. Was quote absurd what else could the European Union offer to this neighborhood if its not very remote. Prospect of joining them what else. You know i dont think that. There is anything else but some kind of hope of the song or a way that these countries will become you members if this is of the mood of the table i think that we can forget about any kind of neighboring policy so. Countries here want to call part of the meeting in the western balkans want to cooperate with them because there is some kind of. In the end of the tunnel theres a light that the light is not very material i mean like you cannot feed of their life you cannot you know i know you have been to some to live i mean given the what you talk about extraction state extraction i mean from the point of view of relief thats. Im just going back to my previous thought so you have to give them some kind of hope and then you will have them as somebody who will cooperate with you if you shut this down this channel down and say look we are not you are not going to be members in any foreseeable future but lets try to be neighbors i dont think this would really help the plans that European Union has already itself because as i said one has to argue the current. E. U. Enlargement process is actually doing. Some very thing itself so the interest that the European Union has on the balkans is actually working on the long run against European Union now the reason i asked that question was because while the prospect of enlargement in practical terms is very slim many european officials are still talking about this range and in very possessive terms for example the incoming president of the European Commission their sole of one that i said just the other day that if the e. U. Fails to offer a european perspective to the western balkans then others and she named china russia turkey and even saudi arabia will fill the gap do you think that you can still. Count on exclusivity or if you will monogamy on the head of the countries in this region i think isnt fair to ask for that no i think it is but thats what im on no must go on wanted to express so we have to rethink the whole thing that i think that he didnt say anything more than that and this is very true is. Pulled itself out of this area