Wrapped in the eyes to how to deal with that 19 without becoming its accomplice to discover that im now joined by film after john and paul larson 2 doctors who popularized the expression that gentlemen its so good to talk to your especially at these times i mean they couldnt have been a more oprah to moment you describe as the main subject of your work thanks for having us this is this is an important topic now dr masha john let me start with you. Like me many of our of your is now stuck at home and i asked you. Why do most travel and ways of dealing with things like it would be hiding yourself some slack when it comes to food choices and thats perfectly understandable we are deprived of so many levels socially physically some of us i deprived of fresh air and sunlight so i think people want to compensate for that but i see in that you would say that loading up on sugar is probably do worse thing one can do at this time am i right it is absolutely right and its one of the reasons we got here because all that sugar has created excess body fat and the majority of people worldwide and that impairs immunity and therefore makes a small wrong so infection and during this period when were were isolated in our homes. We tend to want to eat more sugar and sugar you know refined carbohydrates turn to sugar so thats a thats really the worst thing people can do now that youll be you have long been talking about the danger of being over fat going to be have we will discuss that if great detail but before that it seems that among people who are particularly hard hit by call that 19 are many people with either its actually diabetes or various kinds of Metabolic Diseases so it seems that. With common 1000. 00 in particular people with metabolic problems far more susceptible or is it always the case with their virus. No i mean the data thats coming in is is clearly is is just very clear that its those there are. Symptoms of overfat so there have comorbidities and its those individuals that are coming into the hospitals its those individuals that are sadly leaving us and its ultimately because they have this metabolic dysregulation thats there or medical it can. Go back to phils aunt this is going to cause mostly too much sugar is the big picture right there will be the new more viruses in the in the future that were not accustomed to and you know we need to get the world health that dr massey telling many stine scientists i talk to about base near virus seem to be almost in a lot where they have because they and they find it fascinating not the least because the outcomes it creates and a host are so drastically different need people will get it through their systems without even noticing while some people will go after id for their lives do you think people have a choice in which group they fall into. Oh they certainly do the bottom line is that. Many Infectious Diseases like chronic disease and physical impairment are preventable and with with good health which includes a good immune system we can prevent many or most of the. Viruses bacteria and other microbes that may infect us humans have always done that thats why really we got this far in the world is weve had this great immune system i think its you keep variables when it comes to copenhagen one is metabolism the state of metabolism and the other one is the state of community. City really dull but which one be conditional which do you think is most critical when dealing with a with a virus like. Well theyre both theyre theyre both essential the metabolism established shoes are our improved health so if we have good metabolism we have good health and if we have good health we have good immunity and then immunity improves our metabolism which that improves our health and so its one big happy cycle. Now if i may ask you one more question dr macedon i have spent the last couple of days reading your book the over 500 im a fair which i highly recommend to anyone interested in the connection between dietary sure grandfather and bodily fat as well as how absent bodily fat compromises both metabolism and immunity i understand its a massive question thats right you wrote a hope that in growth strokes jenny please explain how broken metabolism would leave you weekend immunity. Well theres a number of number of issues though one youve been talking about poor sugar metabolism is one and law. Professor professor larson mentioned stress metabolic stress reduces immunity which weve known about for 100 years and again now youve got. You know youve got diet induced overfat which affects insulin resistance which affects chronic inflammation and that mischa psycho affects our metabolism and are our immune system. Tressa larsen i i forgot. My give my biology lessons from school by now but one thing i remember is that maybe im being viewed in south are actually mackay that is in the thats out is that right. Yeah it is so healthy and even system supported by a wire body. So this is a very important i think was tissue itself is just a really important issue that you know its populated by a number of immune cells and getting t. Cells and that. And its just vital that we have you know weve kind of forgotten that thats a really important issue that so there but its tightly linked to the immune system so he dont have. Dont have that system functioning well in the if you have harmed adult and labor by having too much show your stress in your diet you reduce the overall function of that immune system to a. Mountain attack against any viral pathogen that comes across your body. Such as a credible iris the thing many people dont realize is that fat cells are very important for our metabolism their medically actor to survive tissue just like our liver and our brain and other other tissues in the body and so when we have too much fat those fat cells become literally become so just like when we have too little fat too little fat creates very similar problems as as excess body fat and so its all about balance. And larsen are not just cellular metabolic changes that you just described from what i understand they could be happening within people off perfectly normal weight and thats why i think your concept of fact is still ration and at this point of time because me me actually you know that many of the victims of call that you know are. You know i meet people but theyre also maybe people who seemed relatively fat at least to you no doubt avnery back colleagues how is. Being already fagged different from being obese and once the scale of the problem. Oh i know this is a big question this is a. Thats important for us to get your alarm but a survey and i really come from the store etc write songs often used to dealing with what big muscular one of the things that we seen when we would measure our plea is that hes a living athletes would actually be defined overweight and even obese according to the be on a live body. Right which is a which is really its taking the just the overall weight to account and and when you know when were actually like muscle its all ways so much so that to know and just use the scale to that were obsessed about to determine whether or not we are is completely wrong we need to be measuring what matters the one measure what matters is the. Self deposits the addict prosody sits around typically it doesnt and since around our image or around her waist and thats really thats where overfat is so you know fills championing this for a long time we need to go away from the scale and we need to go more towards like a team measure where we stayed around a race and you see how much. You know how much strain on laps there are your waist years relative to your height right and your very simply your your waist measured to be less and thats right the way should be less than half your there you go and when we actually when do you actually do those measurements. And calculations based on them i believe that you came up with astonishing figures i mean like i havent figured that i saw that roughly 90 percent of the world population. It is a magic bullet we come from ice or whether you would call all right fat i mean how could that be its over 80 percent in the us its 91 percent of an illness or over a fat but in places like india. Shockingly 80 percent of the indian adults are overfat and so we we have a serious problem and you know people often think that jay from not overweight and im not obese you know my body fat must be ok but the fact is that 40 percent or more of non obese normal weight individuals are over. Her if you say that when you pile on sugar when you cut it out the you know the changes within your body that happened within a few meals and. You know evolutionarily its hard to understand why because i mean our bodies usually have backup systems or me to get it systems developed more and in fact im but why is the reaction to sugar so immediate well if you take away a stress the body responds and in the case of sugar when you stop eating it yeah you literally will will measurably affect your metabolism in the same day and and you question i cannot see a difference in your Waist Measurement of course but by then that will change relatively quick as well but the 1st thing that has to be done is you need to change your metabolism and stopping sugar and im not talking about cutting back on sugar arms are about stopping sugar will do that quite rapidly. Now correct me if im wrong once you cut carbohydrates your blood sugar may be creased over the next couple of. Hours or days to reach perhaps and well create less favorable condition for viruses to get into your body but it will take much longer to fix your actual cellular metabolism but we know that you can do that i think you yourself have managed to reverse your type 2 diabetes do we understand what actually happens to the south when they become sick and when they become how do we understand how this process. You know. Changes work you know they become the cells become more and so and thats sort of. And they get away from this problem of insulin resistance and so thats just part of the metabolic improvements that we see quite easily and its its another way you mentioned bts a couple times now its another way of. Improving the health of a diabetic and often reducing their need for insulin or often a limb in a thing theyre needed for and. Its interesting that he say that because the World Health Organization still describes type 2 diabetes as an incurable disease on its website and it also recommends all downs as a way of managing the beast rather than me but given the speed and the extend of metabolic changes in the body that you both have described its hard not to wonder what id be how. The quarantine measures when people are locked or weeks on and next to this rage next to their cell phone next to that tally isnt the little bit this fitting as far as the race against called it goes professor larson what do you think about that. You know another perfect storm probably coming. You know youre almost youre creating a sedentary situation so theres less loot meant that. Possibly theres theres more stress theres certainly some Mental Health issues that ive been seeing or hearing of. As we just were not too unlike humans were were meant to. Be isolated like and and yeah and if were continuing to not eat. Then yeah its a recipe for you know exacerbating the overflow and it wouldnt be fair to assume that the longer people stay under quarantine in that sedentary conditions then nor are i see a bad reale likely to require later on well maybe a big step you know but but its you know you know helping the situation certainly theres some rational to suggest that we had to do what we had to do to slow the spread. But yeah im not sure im still probably it or other got asked in terms of the best strategy moving forward Different Countries are going it differently as we see i guess i one day i started around a while to understand the quire engine itself. Doesnt come without a cost is bad an accurate statement etc to me. Yeah without a doubt and i think well well start seeing some of that damage along with the other information we need to learn about the data about covert 19 over ta as scientists start looking at the data and testing people truly trusting people the number of cases will go down in their adjustments the number of deaths will go down and there are adjustments and you know this is going to be very very Important Information to look at from a scientific standpoint and in terms of helping us in the future but in the end at the same time we might just take this covert 19 virus and lump it into seasonal viruses and every year. Will you know well be exposed to these 100 or so different seasonal viruses and over 1000 will be one of them gentlemen let us take a very short break now but youll be back in just a few moments. As a reporter never fails to deliver the good and weve been saying now for a few years that ultimately theyre going to 100. 00 trillion dollars japans already 800 percent debt to g. D. P. Their feds Balance Sheet kuroda their central banker has already taken their central bank above 100 percent of g. D. P. In terms of debt thats buying a lot of junk. So merican 6789 trillion dollar. Theyve got another 60 trillion to go the globe is set to go to 100 percent g. D. P. Debt to the Balance Sheets of the central bank. Welcome back to rolls up large rich still not by telling and told larsen. Gentlemen just be sure to break you were talking about the. Social costs are warranted and i think all of the doctors and the governments often have to deal with the socalled. Problem by deciding whose lives have to be prioritized and i think whats interesting with the comment 19 is that in this particular case they decided to prioritize the sick and the all they showed readiness to n. P. R. Enormous economic losses because of that why do you think professor larson they have never been as decisive in regulating the well its reaching make us so to speak in different ways i assume that would have saved governments a lot of money oh yeah yeah you can imagine it is going to different way that i think it really comes down to probably industry and industry ties with government and specifically i think we have to point you know one of the fingers at a big food and you know and our attention to the political agendas and probably money at the end of the day. You know and im not exactly sure of it is how we got here in the in the 1st place but the wrong information got the wrong feeling of our world and their own habits there and were sitting in the in the over endemic that we that we are in and we dont have unions this was the majority of it with slight coronavirus now and we are all a little bit freaked out at the moment about the call that 19 societe were telling to read but obesity around it being over a fad prematurely kills far far more people and i think if i were in the nation was causing that kind of data rate our governments would be compelled to go to war to stop that any at that i think riyadh not seeing any anything any major stats happening theres a lot of discussion but we do. Very Decisive Action at least in my country i have to say now professor marsland i know you are a big believer in in towering people through education and. Awareness and now dont you think that people should be incentivized or perhaps penalized you say bad i care about own health so i really want to go back more to phils philosophy there where it does come back to the individual. And just im not sure with all the temptations that are out there whether you can shake a stick at someone and force them to go and do this and i just dont see that really is working theres so many overfat individuals that are directly in government and in nation policies and they just kind of cant see the forest for the tree in lights so were its been an uphill battle and thats where i come back to phils with its got to come back to the individual well agri view on on the issue of personal responsibility but when we look at the vagaries of you know how many governments have just banned the dealing in the bowl of diseases that seems like i mean it almost is like going why where does that raise the more overfat people there are because you know that we need a leader that understands it so you know and the leaders that im looking at mostly in the world. Dont really care or understand so but if the leadership. Grabbed hold of these principles and and started from the top then we would be starting somewhere you know things are things we could start having weve just shown actually that we can make drastic changes in an instant we can but in absolute all time things so its certainly possible that we could switch things over very very quickly i dont leave it required the leadership needs to needs to do. Now on the chairperson of action dr matic telling your andrew in. The world go round there is you live here training at a lower rate is typically you burn more are bad and you know as i was jogging in the morning. You would call it an easy pace i found it very challenging it occurred to me that i logged on is actually a. Time to. Time up here vice because you actually dont need that much distance to train the way you recommend ulead chile can run a Half Marathon in your backyard or even in your courtman what do you think about do you think its finally the time when you know a certain well that is im going lowdown should try. Well its not too late to start getting healthy through 3 year exercise along with your diet so yeah and i think people should train by time not by miles so a 30 minute walk or a 60 minute run. Is is a very valuable amount of time and who cares how far you go its really not relevant for the average person running exercising by time is whats most important and you dont have to do it all runs if you do 10 minutes in the morning 10 minutes in the afternoon and 10 minutes an evening now youve got 30 minutes of exercise thats pretty powerful cancel out on that because i often hear youre railing against this no pain no and gave alex and its only after i started implementing some appeared buys. In my own lives and eating it actually i actually understood what it means its no longer hard to be how to eat not challenging its a you dont have to southwards you get your optimal out why do you think this idea of the hard way of sort of work to yourself into the ground is so prevalent that its a macho its a macho thing and paul and i did a nother paper sometime ago on on the brain and how the brain makes decisions how are we going to decide which diet to follow or what Workout Program to follow and and our brain chooses the path of least resistance one that we dont have to think about because if we did wed say hey wait a minute that doesnt make any sense marketing people have grabbed on to that and thats why people follow no pain no gain because its its the sizzle and its not the steak and not professional lesson one more marketing ploy that may come into play here is calories in calories out mentality believing that if i downed a pint of ice cream today i may run it off tomorrow what is the relationship between diet an