Accomplice to discover that im now joined by film after john and paul larson 2 doctors who popularized the expression that gentlemen its so good to talk to your stash away at these times i mean they couldnt have been a more open to moment you describe as the main subject your work thanks for having us this is this is an important topic now dr master john let me start with you. Like me made me aware of your is now stuck at home and i asked you. Why do most travel and ways of dealing with things like it would be hiding yourself some slack when it comes to food choices and thats perfectly understandable we are deprived of so many levels socially physically some of us i deprived of fresh air and sunlight so i think people want to compensate for that but i see in that you would say that loading up on sugar is probably do worse thing one can do at this time am i right it is absolutely right and its one of the reasons we got here because all that sugar has created excess body fat and the majority of people worldwide and that impairs immunity and therefore makes a small wrong so infection and during this period when were were isolated in our homes. We tend to want to eat more sugar and sugar you know refined carbohydrates turn to sugar so thats a thats really the worst thing people can do now that youll be you have long been talking about the danger of being over fat going to be have we will discount that if great detail but before that it seems that among people who are particularly hard hit by call that 19 are many people with either its actually diabetes or various kinds of Metabolic Diseases so it seems that. With common 1000. 00 in particular people with metabolic problems far more susceptible or is it always the case with their virus. No i mean that it degenerates coming in is is clearly is is just very clear that its those there are. Symptoms of over 5 there have comorbidities and its those individuals that are coming into the hospitals its those individuals that are simply leaving us and its ultimately because they have this metabolic dysregulation thats cause there were medical accounts back you know back to phils point this is going to cause mostly too much sugar is the big picture right there the new more viruses in the in the future that were not accustomed to and you know we need to get the world healthy again that reduction method tell him that many stein scientists i talk to about base near virus seem to be almost unlocked where they have because they may find it fascinating not the least because the outcomes it creates and a host are so drastically different need people will get it through their systems without even noticing while some people will go after id for their lives do you think people have a choice in which group they fall into. They certainly do the bottom line is that. Many Infectious Diseases like chronic disease and physical impairment are preventable and with with good health which includes a good immune system we can prevent many or most of the. Viruses bacteria and other microbes that may in fact as humans have always done that thats why really we got this far in the world as weve had this great immune system i think its you keep variables when it comes to crime and i didnt want his metabolism the state of metabolism and the other one is the state of community. Center to be dull but we should want the conditional which do you think is most critical when dealing with a with a virus like. Well there both there there are both essential that metabolism establish shoes are improved health so if we have good metabolism we have good health and if we have good health we have good immunity and then immunity improves our metabolism which that improves our health and so its one big happy cycle. Now if i may ask you one more question dr macedon i have spent the last couple of days reading your book the overfat and im a care which i highly recommend to anyone interested in the connection between dietary sure grandfather and bodily fat as well as how absent bodily fat compromises both metabolism and immunity i understand its a massive question thats right you wrote a hope that in growth strokes jenny please explain how broken metabolism would lead to you weekend immunity. Well theres a number of our number of issues the one youve been talking about poor sugar metabolism is why and law. Professor her professor larson mentioned stress metabolic stress reduces immunity which weve known about for 100 years and again now youve got. You know youve got diet induced overfat which affects insulin resistance which affects chronic inflammation and that mischa psycho affects our metabolism and our our immune system and the resolution i forgot. My give my biology lessons from school by now but one thing i remember is that maybe im being viewed in cells are actually mackay that is in the thats out is that right. Yeah it is so healthy and mean systems supported by a higher body. So this is a very important i think was tissue itself is just a really important issue. You know its populated by a number of the mean cells and getting t. Cells and matter. And its just vital that we have you know these kind of forgotten that thats a really important issue that so there but its tightly linked to the immune system so he dont have. Dont have that system functioning well you fuse hurdle to mislead by having too much show your stress in your diet you reduce the overall function of that immune system to a. Mountain attack against any viral pathogen that terms of cross your body. Such as credible iris the thing many people dont realize is that fat cells are very important for our metabolism theyre medically actor to survive tissue just like our liver and our brain and other other tissues in the body and so when we have too much fat those fat cells become literally become sick just like when we have too little fat too little fat creates very similar problems as as excess body fat and so its all about balance. And larsen are not just cellular metabolic changes that you just described from what i understand they could be happening within people off perfectly normal weight and thats why i think your concept of fact is still ration and at this point of time because me we actually know that many of the victims of call that you know are. You know i meet people but theyre also maybe people who seemed relatively fat at least to you know to that avnery back. How is. Being already fagged different from being obese and once the scale of the problem oh i know this is a big question this is a. Thats important for us to get or youre alone but a survey and i really come from the store etc write songs often used to dealing with what a big muscular means one of the things that weve seen when we would measure our pleats is that hes a living athletes would actually be defined overweight and even obese according to the be on a live body. Right which is a which is really its taking the just the overall weight to account and then when you know when were actually like muscle its all ways so much so that to know and just use the scale to that were obsessed about to determine whether or not we are is completely wrong we need to be measuring what matters the one measure what matters is the. Self deposits the addict prosody sits around typically it doesnt and since around her image or around her waist and thats really thats where her fathers so you know fills championing this for a long time need to go away from the scale and we need to go more towards like a team measure where we changed around our race and we see how much. You know how much more strain on laps there are your waist years relative to your height and your very simply your your waist measured to be less thats right the way should be less than half your height. And where we actually are when do you actually do those measurements. And calculations based on them i believe that you came up with astonishing figures i mean like i havent figured that i saw that roughly 90 percent of the well population. It is a magic bullet we come from ice or whether you would call all right fat i mean how could that be its over 80 percent in the us its 91 percent of adults are over a fat but in places like india. Shockingly 80 percent to be in the in adults or over fat and so we we have a serious problem and you know people often think that jay from not overweight and im not obese you know my body fat must be ok but the fact is that 40 percent or more of non obese normal weight individuals are over. Her if you say that when you pile on sugar when you cut it out the you know the changes within your body could happen within a few meals and. You know evolutionarily its hard to understand why because i mean our bodies usually have backup systems or me to get it systems developed more and in fact im but why is the reaction to sugar so immediate well if you take away a stress the body responds and in the case of sugar when you stop eating it yeah you literally will will measurably affect your metabolism in the same day and and you question i cannot see a difference in your Waist Measurement of course but by then that will change relatively quick as well but the 1st thing that has to be done is you need to change your metabolism and stopping sugar and im not talking about cutting back on sugar arms are about stopping sugar will do that quite rapidly. Now correct me if im wrong once you cut carbohydrates your blood sugar may get creased over the next couple of. Hours or days reached perhaps it will create last favorable condition for viruses to get into your body but it will take much longer to fix your actual sal your learner metabolism but we know that you can do that i think you yourself have to have managed to reverse your type 2 diabetes do we understand what actually happens to the south when they become sick and when they become how do we understand how this process. You know. Changes work now they become the cells become more insulin. And they get away from this problem of insulin resistance and so thats just part of the metabolic improvements that we see quite easily and its its its another way you mentioned beanies a couple times now its another way of. Improving the health of a diabetic and often reducing their need for insulin or often a limb in a thing theyre needed for and. Its interesting that he say that because the World Health Organization still describes type 2 diabetes as an incurable disease on its website and it also recommends all downs as a way of managing the spread of damage but given the speed and the x. Amount of metabolic changes in the body that you both have described its hard not to wonder what id be how all the quarantine measures when people are logged or weeks on and next to this rage next to their cell phone next to that tally isnt a done little bit this fitting as far as the race against called it goes professor larson what do you think about that. Yeah another perfect storm probably coming. You know youre almost youre creating a sedentary situation so theres less loot meant that. Possibly theres theres more stress theres certainly some Mental Health issues that ive been seeing or hearing of. As we just were not too unlike humans were were meant to. Be isolated like and and yeah and if were continuing to not eat healthy. Then you know its its a recipe for you know exacerbating the overflow and it wouldnt be fair to assume that the longer people stay under quarantine in sedentary conditions then nor are i. C. U. Bad reale likely to require later on well maybe a big step you know but but its you know you know helping the situation certainly theres some rational to suggest that we had to do what we had to do to slow the spread. But yeah im not sure im still the probably a better writer got to ask in terms of the best strategy moving forward Different Countries are going it differently as we see i guess i one day i started around a while to understand the quire engine itself. Doesnt count without a cost is bad and accurate statement its accurate to me with a yeah without a doubt and i think well well start seeing some of that damage along with the other information we need to learn about the data about covert 19 over taing as scientists start looking at the data and testing people truly trusting people the number of cases will go down in their adjustments the number of deaths will go down and their adjustments and you know this is going to be very very Important Information to look at from a scientific standpoint and in terms of helping us in the future but in the end at the same time we might just take this covert 19 virus and lump it into seasonal viruses and every year. Well you know will be exposed to these 100 or so different seasonal viruses and over 1000 will be one of them gentlemen let us take a very short break now but you could be back in just a few moments. We go to work so you straight home. Join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i was speaking to guest of the world the follow fix School Business im show business ill see you then. Welcome back to roles up large rich still not like telling and told larsen. Gentleman just be sure to break we were talking about the. Social costs are warranted and i think both of the doctors and the governments often have to deal with the socalled. Problem by deciding whose lives have to be prioritized and i think whats interesting with the comment 19 is that in this particular case they decided to prioritize the snake and the all they showed readiness to in cure Enormous Economic losses because of that why do you think professor larson they have never been as decisive in regulating the fluids reaching make ice so to speak in different place i assume that would have saved governments a lot of money oh yeah yeah you can imagine is it going to different whether i think it really comes down to probably industry and industry ties with government and specifically i think we have to point you know one of the fingers of a big food and you know and are potentially the political agendas and probably money at the end of the day. You know and im not exactly sure of it there is how we got here in the in the 1st place but the wrong information got the wrong feeling of our world and their own habits there and were sitting in the in the over pandemic that we we are in and we dont have unions this was the majority of it with slight coronavirus now and we are all a little bit freaked out at the moment about the call that 19 societe were telling to read but basically around it being overfat prematurely kills far far more people and i think if i were in the nation was causing that kind of data rate our governments would be compelled to go to war to stop that any at that i think riyadh not seeing any anything any major stats happening theres a lot of discussion but we do. Very Decisive Action at least in my country i have to say now professor marse and i know you are a big believer in in towering people through education and. Awareness and now dont you think that people should be incentivized perhaps penalized you say bad i care about own health so i really want to go back more to phils philosophy there where it does come back to the individual. And just im not sure with all the temptations that are out there whether you can shake a stick at someone and force them to go and do this and i just dont see that it really is working theres so many overfat individuals that are directly in government and in Mission Policies and they just kind of cant see the forest for the tree in lights so where its been an uphill battle and its right come back to fill it with its got to come back to the individual well agri viewing on on the issue of personal responsibility but when we look at the vagaries of you know how many governments have just banned the dealing in the bowl of diseases that seems like i mean it almost seems like the more i read is that hes the more overfat people there are because you know that we need a leader that understands it so you know and the leaders that im looking at mostly in the world. Dont really care or understand so but if the leadership. Grabbed hold of these principles and and started from the top then we would be starting somewhere you know things are things we could start having weve just shown actually that we can make drastic changes in an instant we can put an absolute holt on things so its certainly possible that we could switch things over very very quickly i dont leave our choir the leadership needs to needs to do. Now on the chairperson of action dr not to tell and you are and guru in. World go round there is you live here training at a lower rate. You burn more are bad and you know as i was jogging in the morning. You would call it an easy pace i found it very challenging it occurred to me that i logged on is actually a paraphrase trying to. Sum up your advice because you actually dont need that much distance to train the way you recommend ulead chile can run a Half Marathon in your backyard or even a new york apartment what do you think about do you think its finally the time when you know a 3rd of the world that is under lockdown should try. Well its not too late to start getting healthy through 3 year exercise along with your diet so yeah and i think people should train by time not by miles so a 30 minute walk or a 60 minute run. Is is a very valuable amount of time and who cares how far you go its really not relevant for the average person running exercising by time is whats most important and you dont have to do it all runs if you do 10 minutes in the morning 10 minutes in the afternoon and 10 minutes an evening now youve got 30 minutes of exercise thats pretty powerful cancel out on that because i often hear youre railing against this no pain milngavie alex and its only after i started implementing some appeared buys. In my own lives and eating it actually i actually understood what it means its no longer hard to be how to eat not challenging its a you dont have to southwards you get your optimal out why do you think this idea of the hard way of sort of work to yourself into the ground be so prevalent that its a macho its a macho thing and colonise it a nother paper some time ago on on the brain and how the brain makes decisions how are we going to decide which diet to follow or what Workout Program to follow and and our brain chooses the path of least resistance one that we dont have to think about because if we did wed say hey wait a minute that doesnt make any sense but marketing people have grabbed on to that and thats why people follow no pain no gain because its its the sizzle and its not the steak and not professional lesson one more marketing ploy that may come into play here is calories in calories out mentality believing that if i downed a pint of ice cream today i may run it off tomorrow what is the relationship between diet and exercise and how they are facts are facts to wars. Yes so thats another one and you did agree were you guys a bigger 8. You know video with dr jason phone where he was really talking about the 2 different models that are out there weve