Us there are new cases all the time look at germany look at south korea would you say its too early to start looking dollars frictions oh 1st thank you for having me its a pleasure to be here and i think the concern that you raise is a very important question when exactly to reopen how aggressively do we reopen because people are getting understandably anxious either from. Being unable to work just being at home Mental Illness is you start to kick in and yet at the same time we know as you mentioned there are plenty of asymptomatic cases theres plenty of spread yet to happen and its a very delicate balance between when should we reopen and when can we go ahead with many antivirals Vaccine Research everything that we can do to help those who are afflicted as the disease spreads so this is a very unique time in Human History and a very difficult one to make these decisions but if you were actually lets say here in charge here head of w h l r if you are present when they push it well would you say its time to sort it ease up down my preference would be if we could to ease up on the lockdown after 2 or 3 more months if we really start to well if we embrace the need to continue to not see. Nixon large groups the way we had become accustomed to in so many years not to do as much travel around the world as we had done in prior years we know this is going to help in this fundamental epidemiology theres no huge mystery but this would help as we continue to grapple with the problem so the issue is in others if were to be as patient as i seem to be willing to be this patient and the answer is clearly no and thats why this is an issue is how quickly can we go forward as well as how prudently can we wake. So delhi a share earlier said no reason to believe that polemic will come to a close in summer but russia has authorities places their scene at the barracks because there are patches at air temperature over 30 degrees celsius. Whats your view do you support that you will hot summer days may call it larry king live its great because my view based on the evidence that ive seen is that we would probably be fortunate this summer and any places experiencing warmer climates were going to be benefited by this probably with reduced transmission and its important i answered with a probably because of course we dont know what we are dealing with a new problem however i have to say based on the evidence about ive seen the experts who ive heard from the literature and ive read is that we should benefit from this so the idea of moving forward in opening reopening prudently with the expectation that were going to get the benefit of reduced transmission i think is a real possibility and that would be my hope is that we navigate that properly are we all of our of those who say that yeah we will probably get it at the end of the summer but come autumn and start it shares drop we are going to be great for a 2nd wave out to greens that or we could actually not be having this koolaid i agree with that because we dont know yet how much of the benefit of herd immunity is going to kick and i know youve discussed that earlier in your show with experts so if we do business it from herd immunity helping to reduce the cut off the chains of transmission so that people have never seen the virus or wont be as likely to be infected by it because these chains of transmission will be broken then in that case we would benefit from the herd immunity keeping in around the time that we would expect the cold time seasonality to also be problematic so i try to be an optimist but i also believe the data and i read as many of the papers as i can and im cautiously optimistic i really get some benefits from herd immunity that really gets benefits from the summertime seasonality reduce transmission before the inevitable return in the colder months. So then you heard about iris shares learning to 6 percent of the genome to a back or virus discovered in china in 2032 and this cyrus was considerable low risk and not really thought back then that it could mutate translate to humans causing pool demick like these you study the ways viruses adapt and evolve so tell me its hard no way at all to predict how a Battle School mutate i think there are ways to predict how a virus could mutate there are ways to predict how it can evolve and it seems like an insurmountable very difficult problem but its more about which of the genes that are most important for that are as a disease as it evolves and sees a new post as a thing that we can key in on and im not revealing some history of a people as well but what it shows is that evolution is very hard to predict especially from the point of organismal interactions so you now have a virus its entering a new host of humans we dont know enough about our in our own immune world immunity reaction to this iris we dont know enough about its interactions with immunity and reservoir host such as bats so i think whats emerging now lets use that term too lightly but whats emerging is that we need a lot more study of virus host interactions and wild animals more to get a greater understanding of how do you work i think that would allow us to make a better prediction about how any iris that could emerge in humans would interact with us but that is such is that its like other animals to who all are potentially arafat but is there a place of fire siskel spread out to rats issue upsetting all the animals their potential e. You know hosts to dangerous to risky viruses to last few minutes i love that question because it recognizes the scope of the problem and i think you you may know this your listeners may know this was a really. In a world of viruses they are the most common thing on this planet the effects also human or life including humans as well as all the animals that live on the planet so its pretty much impossible to do a blanket surveillance and all that biology became youre not well we cant c. N. N. On bus seemed to be almost. For us in countering them in the lyles as eating them as food thats on in the wild so this is whats going to happen in the next few years for sure to the next decade is going to see a lot more. Basic research on these interactions and humans have with wild animals what we consume for food is a big task but i think we are up for it there are a lot of people who study by rolla gee of other organisms not just in humans and thats really what were talking about here are the viruses were for their interactions with organisms that are not humans what can we predict about what we careen they jump into. So that i was talking to a very young russian virologist a couple of days ago and he was sort of proposing the same idea as you. Know like out of all the viruses that are out there a potential viruses and they could be hundreds of thousands we only know about 6000 out of the 6000 i 3 or 4 are plant based viruses so where to get a database of all the no viruses a study that would really help us go forward with you know coming up with medication and coming out with the facts seem to know that if that were to happen how long would that take that you actually study all the potential are still we know are out there. Good question i think unfortunately the study of all the viruses that are out there will take centuries essentially unless our methods for studying them improve radically timbs of the high throughput ability to do it. A better way to you know in my opinion is to. C n n specific virus. So we know corona virus is a problematic were a bit complacent about mers from the virus sars front of virus one other corona virus issues that have happened in this century and we were a little late to that game we didnt we worry a lot about flu and understandably so but now so much attention is going to be paid to prone to viruses the key is what else is out there theres certainly other viruses that might have variants particular species there in some family of viruses that we consider to be a night for humans and yet you see very. Easy ones to protect ourselves against but what if we dont and this is the problem with studying pandemics you dont know and so you know its easier to be reactive than proactive but i hope that we are entering a new renaissance here i dont think we need any more evidence to show us that this is a vitally important problem facing were talking about carotid viruses because this is the burning question now and from what we know there are around 30 types of coronaviruses known to us would you say it is more important to work on a universal vaccine that would actually be excellent to all of those theyre occurring viruses are suing me working for a vaccine that is at fit to each one of that i think currently the goal is probably for those who are chasing the vaccine to work against this corona virus and the reason is that we are fortunate in seeing that its not changing very much at the genetic level over time its not like the flu problem or we have to really come up with a new vaccine each flu season because the virus is changing so quickly and what worries me about it a universal vaccine against all coronaviruses is that universal vaccines are just so difficult to establish and prove that they have safety and efficacy across that group thats a tall order worry about bad is the goal in a more realistic goal would be. That seems are being this current coronavirus problem that doesnt seem to be changing very quickly we will face the issue of waning immunity and im sure youve heard of that in others as well as we have no evidence yet and if somebody is infected with this current corona virus and it recovers from it theyre protected long term through immunity if they were that would be wonderful but theres just no evidence to show that in my opinion at this point so we will be faced with perhaps in the back scene and then getting it again just unity but i dont see were at the point right now where the strategies to create a universal vaccine against all corona boxes fortunately the other ones that affect us are varied but not. Quite so im sure you heard that tell top that irrigates cable 2015 everyones talking about right now it was about how unprepared for that it was for an epidemic following the ball outbreak and he actually proposed dealing with future badasses like we do with horse head of those who are so stand by trade that have infrastructure in place costly trade practice to restart and they may not have enough to have all of what well be able to see Something Like that after they sit at it. And i think thats i think thats very likely is that the Global Economic problem is altering from this i think of course only is as big or a big driver as the health issue so there are many people are unfortunately getting sick and dying and yet we dont even know the extent of the global economy. Problems that have resulted from this and demi so what bill gates and others might be going for it if you can sort of prove idea that she taken seriously prepare ourselves for the future we know this is going to happen again being highly were very population dense. And many areas species were highly vulnerable so this from just fundamental epidemiology what one should expect were hurt and we certainly could be better prepared about in the future were going towards that as just a terrific goal. That effort or that idea just very quickly i want to go too deep into that what do you make of that possibility out immediately past choice that some countries are tolerate. I think that we have probably sufficient knowledge you that we can pull it off. I worry that its going to contribute to a lot of what we already see in the world is how does an app not who has access to brown the planet from an economic standpoint thats clearly the case that everybody can travel as easily its because they cant its im to move away from their job or just take a vacation etc theres all sorts of restrictions that adding a layer of restriction to it sounds like a pretty daunting and not a very fun way to move forward if you know at the time or since im a realist so if this is a short period of time when i feel like humans are maybe inconvenience or good purpose this seems like one of those times and if there has to be a reduced ability to just move freely around the planet and if were better able to track who has been exposed to the virus was recovered from it i cant say that thats a bad idea where well be right back with turner professor of ecology law miles at Yale University talking about whats going to happen to lessen the nearest teachers say this. We go to work you straight home. The dropping of the f. B. I. Case against Michael Flynn reveals what so many of us have long believe russia gate was a crude and sloppy invention undermine the outcome of the president ial election. How do you feel about the current occupant of the white house it was an attempted coup tellingly the corporate liberal media side of the conspiracy. And were back with professor paul turner president microbiology and ecology at Yale University paul iraq back to sorry parapet searching sorry for it he meant our president a virus of generations and generations ago so our game to remember is how to fight certain factions and then we as spaces grow more resistant over time and then it got me thinking how can some people go through chicken pox and their kids go through chicken pox as well. So this is the interesting thing about interactions between humans and certain passages so you said many things that are very intriguing in your statement one is that you see and genomes the ghosts of infection so in the long long ago evolution of our predecessors on this planet if they were interacting with viruses and being infected enough those viruses got it once all the germline so if they are asked for generation to generation through gametes then they become part of our genome and thats what we can recognise really when you do human genome sequence it interesting recent listenings there was a lot of then a social good so part of it for example leaves the proper formation of a sense and the inability of the mother to reject the child is something that seems like its parasite rowing within the human body experience treating thats a viral gene that allows an interaction to work well in all placental mammals analysis go fast forward to more of the current day yes there are virus genes that might be in our genome that help us in a way express these genes and prevent us from being attacked by other viruses as vigorously so i take your questions i mean would if weve passed already had so many hundreds of years or thousands of years into the future the viruses of today are shaping up or we should future definitely the case. And the ways of avenues very unclear and we havent. See how that happens or still trying to decipher have occurred asked what is undoubtedly happening and. I was also i was training asked is that how our immune system evolved kill out over time and become to it so that iris is more have to develop meaning taisha is to get its limits. Yes thats a an intriguing question so the immune system to me as fascinating and i should say very transparently im not in any alts i try and read up on the topic as much as i can its lots of other immunologists so the interesting they are immunology is one of the few things thats me reflects increased complexity over time in evolution so evolution doesnt always have this increasing complexity and its only a single cell organisms around today there are around billions of years ago for example and theyre doing quite a few but the point of increasingly complex system is prone to breakdown and breaks in the armor so the thing about immune response to some pathogens in ways that we dont entirely know it could be too big a risk right youre seeing this in the current and to make some individuals are being infected in their immune systems are in a way seemingly overreacting to the problem creating a worse problem maybe hastening it becoming a mortality ship and i dont think that this is very well understood but its certainly very real so what im getting at is the unfortunate consequence of an increasingly price immune system is that yes it creates vulnerabilities because it is a complex immune system it works very well to protect this and im very happy i have it at the same time this is the root cause of auto immunity the mis firey the immune system to solve problems and actually turn the immune system on you and even korea worst problems as a result i think thats what you were getting at. Was let me know. Yes i know youve also said that viruses are immensely deborah hersman. Plentiful on their planet so we could be in fact with a ton of different viruses and serve as a host to them and never even knew where they and that we also see what kind of ice island south people asil to that day they dont even know they had corona. You know put aside the 19th our most viruses harvest to humans there you know harmless to humans or me amounts enough of the exponent innate immune barrier to then that we didnt have to wait for him by used it we just have barriers against the infection and theres lots of ways thats built in to the geno so he had about 30000 level way for me to answer your question is it is a bit like swimming in a sea of viruses on this planet theyre in the air we breathe the water we drink the suit we and by and large a lot of them are incapable of infecting her cells but interestingly some of them will strike syria so they may be in fact a plant matter and you eat salad and you and just a plant virus and it exits the other end tags and it can go on and infect a plant after that so fortunately we never know when some viruses enter and leave our body because they do us absolutely no harm and we fight them off successfully and the ones we do care about are at the socalled top of whats been referred to as a pathogen pyramid at the base of the pyramid are very many microbes including this is that you see every day as you marge upwards. You know as you traverse the top of this germinate you have mentioned gets at those that are of epidemic potential work and any attention and they get the most attention deservedly so and the unfortunate consequence is that we pay so much attention to them for all we know coronaviruses might be interacting with other viruses that are already in some people in some way in the directly or indirectly and this might be a clue to why the corona virus might be especially deadly and that person so thats a number. Some of what you call partly microbial disease thats a big phrase just to say multiple microbes contributing to disease and i would have to say the best a very under study problem because its a difficult problem to study its not as a scientist i think nor good its just a difficult one to grapple with is just a variety of data to sit there and whats making him say for persons 1st day could be due to some virus thats lurking in there that has not been described at all inside its so i think we need to march in those efforts as well the secondary infections i come in with around a virus even non viral bacterial infections and seem to be contributing to secondary pneumonias and deaths and some individuals this really has to be examined from a poly microbial effort. To. Do we have any essential lattices that live in us there are important a