Shes there as the western governments have recognized her as a legitimate leader that latvians is going to fire a schooling have president elect whereas actually she has no legal standing and that she said we dont like in venezuela and the problem was was that that rang me sort of proof checks my own status before inviting me on and when i had made it clear that i dont think that the 2 cases equivalent and made clear that i was going to say no i do think she is just what they are although this program spackling are elected that they didnt go back and so i wasnt invited to comment and so i said you know if youre a journalist nearing an expert and their insights if their opinion and even that my opinion didnt seem to fit with the line then i was dumped and consequently you know there was a biased and i greeted you did me come across as censorship or even a critic that. Caching of propaganda but it also strikes me as that is a very routine and a very common way of producing Television News not only in russian but i think pretty much everywhere how common this dream interviewing of this sort at in the industry is and industry and if youre asking to t. V. Stations in the west do they have a line and are they interested in people with a period and then thats absolutely true and the obvious example is is fox news which absolutely has an agenda and is biased but you know im an old school journalist and so much this is supposed to be about objective it see you resets people who know what theyre talking about and if they dont agree with you and you know the least you can do is debate. The prescreening of and says in my mind its not its not on i mean in so much is if you want to discuss a tricky issue like this and it is a fairly kristens one if she is and id say. You are someone like me and im going to say no you can put somebody else on whos going to say yes and then youve got its bait that they would have to make up their own much more well lets start going down there is where i get this tendency of thinking whether its a millionaire or to says most of it at this point i find it ironic that both russia and the west and commentators sought to present it as sad as is my dumb moment with all the theories and hopes a fantastic but youve been arguing that ad been answered alrosa arent nothing like weve seen before what can make them stand out for you. Its in many ways a unique revolution the tendency to link it to my down because again as the people on the street mass demonstrations it looks very similar superficially is obvious and the western coverage International Coverage i mean obviously the edits. Going to reach for those kinds of parallels because the amount of Information Knowledge that you can assume in your readers is actually quite limited its again when covering the sneer of it at night that well its not on the news every day and so the view is in the u. K. Or the u. S. Would recognize this oh its another color revolutionary spirit the masses of people on the street and so theres a natural tendency to frame the story in terms that your readers recognize but what were trying to in is to the more human story and surveillance of it and again the informed as watching this its very different or have that one of the big changes when the biggest difference is ukraine is a very divided country between the rest of us in the east and the nationalists in the west and in belarus it seems to be a universal across the society as well i mean from the middle since it actually is immense through to the people that were in the factories of university reject. Shank and the peacefulness of the process the votes just as the organizers took them off sky air and several made it absolutely clear they want to have a peaceful process and also the lack of to politics if you remember john mccain the u. S. Senate was on my down making speeches about freedom we are with the people which was to say that we reject the democrats key elected president on a cove a show that everyone hates him and he was a terrible president. And appeal to the crowds there where is the protest is in better russia have made it clear that this is not a chip this fight while i dream of you that probably have some grass roots promise in our largely void of geopolitics im not trying to you cant. Really come across this way and they can stay this way because that clearly a lot of adjure is quite trying to use those products to advise their to political interests going on because the problem is better us risk. Dragged in slowly to the chip lets stand off between russia and the west im in an office just been in brussels she just met with my front shes just about to meet with merkel and my problem is you know they they have agendas too that they have problems with russia you know highlight methyl was come in saying i think just this morning and she was saying that we stand with this other parents with the people and at the same time we believe look because knowledge is present a president but at the same time we do know want to get involved as you know block politically in this fight. First english language address to the e. U. Said we want your son to die at sea but please respect the sufferance see it better russia in other words this is a fight between the people and the president and then this is a tricky question because when an adult when you recognize be it tainted nature or even try to project land the nature of the boat. You know any possible intimacy of the incumbent election can this case its one thing but when you are all unknowing to 2nd status and legitimacy to his competitor without actually having an accurate tally and develop Something Else entirely. That this is a disputed question i mean then and you probably saw i had a long argument and so its it was one of the its exactly this point. I say the beginning that we dont know what the actual result is however there is some evidence in so much as there were 20 rebel owning stations set released what they claim is the real results and those shows that. Won by an overwhelming majority. We did that could be that could serve as a proof that the david did vote or the actions were a free and fair but you cant take that as a measure or as a pro of you know i dont agree and i think my my problem with that is that at its core its ultimately sassy teaching internal l. Action german legitimacy with. An outside recognition and it is at its core a tell to me deciding for the people thats exactly what the ship is doing he is deciding for the people isnt the e. U. With as much criticism of him as it provides isnt actually doing the same just siding for the balor russian people that the issue here is to what extent are we comforted that he lost he claims he won 80 percent of the official result was 81 he has not behaved as a president who won 80 percent of the see no gration the rebel polling stations we have numbers and those numbers and or those stations so a landslide they say and also there was this just a study on that based on the official results also says 70 percent and finally when the progovernment demonstrations have been organized no one sends up if he just met me and really did thanks again there is in the name of the recent tracking to the question of whether the look of shock is legitimate or not im not having that argument i think there are lots of additives that these these elections werent free and fair and that hes legitimacy as a leader is that very very questionable my question is if a friend again should meet a c. M. That he had nasca that is a legitimate representative of the belarusian people that she had this biggest unique or shape lets say 8 package as she did on behalf of the belorussian people and the reason im asking these is not because im trying to put you know a look at shock and the e. U. On this x. A moral footing because the means that it is it used to procedure and and in this particular example it is not it is made to the serving assumptions the problem is their legitimacy as president you know they live in as a say a putting up president elect is that the sensor Lesson Committee bunce all of that so theres no possibility of a recount and theres no possibility. To check which means there has to be another election if we question get this is this is something that the e. U. May well cross for but its not doing that it is saying that we recognise i directly or indirectly by accepting it also can add that behind its level in brussels that she is the leader and that if youre reading into it that the only people who actually recognized. What they said and they put us in is careful about this they have not recognized that dissent is the gist missy but only the latvians have said that shes actually president better dont you respect me in the economy and we can become very legalistic here and i both look at shanghai as they have the russian government has a long tradition of being legalistic that if you accept somebody of the highest level and enough guy has been accepted by but had self all european institutions hes negotiating a package for democrats want to get all this thing that annoys her with the status even without you know putting it formal press release out i mean its also about symbols is it not yeah but you know i mean negotiating is a loaded term i mean shes gone suppressors and shes talking to them by except to ask who exactly as who and that i mean as the a member of the coordination house which is a self point buddy in order to negotiate but you know in that sense we see she normally won the elections or at least. Falsified im not sure but then they set up as a party to have a negotiation and then its working about Transitional Government and a new election so this is being the position. And in that as the semi official head of the Opposition Movement is why shes being received in brussels but i wouldnt say shes negotiating in so much as there is no legal force to any of these scuffs its having to live in fear of these cow autocrats and be it imposing champions over democracy abroad ought all to play into each others hands because think. Why for these and national and all geopolitics and grassroots democratic initiatives because look at how they can now go and say yes see they recognize her without even counting their vote and you know that maybe hes out to get me and you will be 1st ill be ultimately reinforcing each of the narratives and. You know making it so much difficulty much more difficult for local actors from a Grassroots Movement to crash for Democratic Change without being accused or without being branded as a for an actor and a great like i said in the beginning of this comments that you know its getting dragged into this chip political game and at the same time sick enough. Said in her comments that she has been a bit more. In so much just that she thinks more pressure needs to be put on and so she is acting more president ial by taking that like shes made that decision on our own and shes shes not like its anything at this point. But she she remains the face and europe remains convinced that not only are the elections totally legitimate she probably won the gold down the line everybody is saying that no one is going to make a president. That there has to be new elections and with those been ballots there has to be because you need a definitive number on how many votes she wants and that simply is not available and we have to take a very short break now we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. My name is 2nd. Im going on. Mr jackson wanted on teacher. To put it over there you know if. We let him know were going to give it. To concerts and you can move. You know. These kids and i used to make it very very easy no food to leave school and drug use to people. Who support who comes to clubs you really hes trying to fit in the music that people whose jobs because he makes me company. He does because he makes me happy playing with him from the very end. And when you get to teach me. The bad guys and because its backed up my ass a lot sooner because. You. Know. I doubt. You are. Welcome back to worlds apart bound arius etta james b. N. A. In telling us up but i want to charge on another news bomb to get us on in september and im talking about be allowed to poison in all that russian opposition politician alex a number we should not only triggered all the mail year and narratives in both russia and the west but i think it actually made us seriously undermine out war changed the post cold war relationship between russia and germany. There is now a real prospect of a hole in the construction of the north stream pipeline add if that happens if that comes to pass i am absolutely sure that the e. U. Russian or russian german relationship will qualitatively change now that you are a long time russian what chair when you know are presented to me is like that its so many complications and underground currents how do you how do you go about making sense of any and we tend to focus on the business the economics and its a nice frame of reference because you know its like the follow the money thing if you say the issue of the north stream theres a lot of lets. Be perceptive piece if they the u. S. Is looking you know now theyre producing gas in excess and they want to export their energy clearly the commercial aspects of this story play in this story and being the issue with no stream is. Basically that it cuts ukraine out of the transit routes from russia and western europe feel like russias been bullying ukraine but if you look at the economics i mean that talking about Energy Security however. In the seventys eightys russia was responsible for 70 or 0. 80 europes gas thats fallen in the meantime to about 3540 percent so europe is already diversified away from russian gas and that having this new pipeline the most stream 2 that russia will to live in exactly the same amount of gas as its and it is now so theres no increase in dependency on russia the problem is the Energy Security issue because when they went through the pipeline to ukraine because of the terrible relationships between russia and ukraine and because of ukraine being effectively bankrupt it couldnt pay its gas and gas from turned off in 2006 and people are taking this as a Political Action whereas it isnt actually an economic one and germany the reason why they key in on this pipeline is actually increases their Energy Security because it goes directly from what is really a very clean clear that they are so keen on these pipelines anymore because in marco hit herself as quite ambivalent if theres evidence that there is such a as sure going to be. Allowed to poisoning of somebody like the bali and the set huge implications huge an economic terms. What does it tell you that was dramatic i mean medical suggested she didnt say explicitly she is just it. That no strain to pipeline may not be complete because of not only was asking for the kremlin you know to be accountable all the stuff accounts its what actually happened which is news and i see said i mean this whole affair open about these poisoning good. Dramatic change in attitudes because matt the man who doesnt have a very good working relationship i mean they both have to deal with the geopolitics but all such i mean as a major investor russia has literally 10 times more Companies Working in russia than any other europe in paris more than all the others put together. And if that relationship changes if his arms length now were going to do it the us and e. U. Entity rather than german russian and say thats amazed change and thats a major blow to russia i think they not only wheezing stories and very particular kind of story because it falls into a very special category for me that characterized by 2 features why that is extreme visibility everybody has heard about it and the 2nd one is very little no ability there are very very few established facts and the most Critical Data this case now all these test results im being held by germany the test results and the formula of being allowed to poison them being held by germany even though one would think that one of the most revealing things would be to compare the test results that not only had in russia and windows test results and one that there were produced when he lets us not entirely true but in the original what could possibly hold germany back i checked into this that the issue here is no which is actually a military. Nerve agent chemical when the responsible authority is. The International Organization chemical weapons and that what happens is not known it becomes a by last way shoot everything has to go through the p. C. And that germany has submitted that information to the p. C. And mr is a member of the organization and is entitle to access the states is through the o. P. C. W. So as far as the protocol is consent germany and russia have nothing to do with this now dont you see w. s are very controversial are going to say shit because immediately you know what getting vote here is the. Call squeeze anything and the old be a legend das stories of using chemical weapons in syria and that you know better than i do that then number of western scientists who work with the older c. W. And who are on record to die means on record complaining about the pressure put on them by western security agencies to provide the result favorable to that conclusion so you dont trust based on the overriding you dont trust trust the russian process how inclined he tries the o. P. C. W. Protest and given the history of that are going to say shit and then role it has been playing in these geopolitical games between russia and the west i grant you their p. C. Is obvious but despite his history and has had problems in the past and that undermines its just missin his authority. Nevertheless everyone signed up to this chemical weapons treaty its the one thats in force and is the one that has to be for that and its a good situation and then you can ask questions as to you know whether theyre playing again super scoopers. Im havent done enough reporting on it suits cool that you know im aware of the reports that its actually full and that in the past and that raises a question ive written that. It isnt up to literalistic a position for germany to take in duty if you are so concerned about human rights about the yeah you know youd be use of chemical weapons out on the character of europe about there russias track record of dealing with opposition figure is its a looking about germany i mean germanys nothing but bureaucratic i mean theyre. Very elastic and theyre doing this by the book which is released it says the o. P. C. 72 and then the protocol say that it has to be checked independently but to other people which was france and sweden. They present no its just me i would agree i say why not share the dates directly with russia because it would be just a right not just something joint investig