A number of seemingly fallacy and jobs, including one with the euro and you have to quit it and return back to your assessor aloud. I wonder if the decision seems a bit a century to put it mildly even to your own family to well, it was actually a family decision. And the thing is that when i was growing up in london in the eightys and ninetys and i was at school and university, it was a very different place to the u. K that we see now. I mean, recently weve seen the 1st minister of scotland has been elected, and hes a young british focus connie, weve got the mayor of london, so it is fine. Theres also a focused on the origin. And of course you have an Indian OriginPrime Minister in the u. K. Now, um, 30 years ago in the ninetys, we would have been hard pressed to predict that it was a very different society. And i think most of my life was actually my childhood and my student years were dominated by the sap true government. A tory government, which was not known for its liberalism inside it spoke to low racial tensions of racism was very old. But the ending lived in those days, im very happy to say that the new generation so much more open minded them much more aware of the racist or discriminatory regions. And the person as a much better place, i think, for minorities now than it was in the ninetys. Now i think for anyone who is dreaming about the future in a foreign land, there is a green degree of idolize ation there. The bigger it is, the stronger is the disappointment later, i wonder how it was for you that you know, cultural shock off by meeting the land that you drums about. Yeah, so its interesting that i grew up in england, which is the destination of choice for many focused on is many asians in general. And i do, i mean, im very grateful about that because i got an excellent education. I think england is an amazing country in terms of the d. N, a chest, the National Health service rule, access to justice. And there is a relatively compared to the rest of europe in survey to america, a more free and balanced media. So i absolutely understand that people want to acquire those things, but i would say nowadays people should look to their own country 1st. Because if you are educated, if you have a sense of security in your country, you know, apart from those people who are, god forbid thing the press start, their lives are at stake, or theyre to so below the poverty line that they cannot even civil. And thats a different type of migration, but its a middle class people who are educated. I would say if you have a certain level of respect in your country and security and your basic needs are met. You know, the growth is always green, but when you get there, especially if you go to, lets say, the united states, you will be a 2nd or even a 3rd class. It is that for many, many years now in one of your incoming years here described the cultural stronger to your had when you went to one party and package them in here were the only one who wasnt drinking or smoking there, despite the fact that your warrens actually a born in the country, but it was almost like a wild being born in the u. K. You were less westernized than many of the people who have lived impact has done their entire life. And i think this is such an interesting point. So he also mentions, you know, the British Society is now being increasingly so their age and i expect sized or i dont know indian eyes if, if i can put them that way. And i was thinking about whether one can really understand them fully inhabit that culture. That condition their speciality consciously, without having some distance from it, because i think one of the reasons why you can see the pakistan is the sides of the way you see is because you have, you know, so the benefit of several different perspectives to i agree. I think thats absolutely right, having grown up in england and then coming to focused on which was an identity that was very strong. Im a, i was very focused on the british bucket study. And then coming here and realizing that i actually focus finding identities, also in change and of course of transformation. And so the identity i thought was focused on was a few decades old because that related to an identity my parents had left behind when they moved decades of yeah. And so with immigrant communities, what happens is the own country they leave behind a culture and base. The memories are stuck in that time. Whereas backups and views on and transforms and modernize is so yes, i think it was very interesting for me. And the other thing i noticed was that ultimately big circle is leads in every country are fairly westernized, whether its focused on or any other country. Because i was interacting with the educated one percent. It leads to a very well off. They were, majority of them were inevitably equate to westernize ation with modernize ation. And i think that is changing now with the, with the internet and with citizen journalism and the access to information. I think people have discovering their own history. Its allow me to screen must limit history, asian history and building into their own historical background rather than relying on the mainstream press, which certainly filters it is not blocking it out completely. You know, i, one of the things that i was kind of surprised, and by, thats surprising about here is, is one of your sad again. And one of your interest is that what you miss the most about britain is its intellectual stimulation. And im certainly biased here. And russian, the just a house lab for some of the worst relationship ever. But when i look and we just need to know how predictable they are, you know, um how home a genius the narrative is. When i look at certain reports by think town tanks and you know, seem to buy as in the, the sort of the relationship with the fact how casual it is to put in my way again. And when i compare it, for example, uh with the practice dining discourses mess as, as it is, it strikes me as far more genuine and intellectually honest. So i wanted to ask you, what kind of intellectual stimulation youre you have in britain that theyve kind of get an offering impact as done. So i think, yeah, that the nation was when i was very nice bucks fun. And i think things have improved a great deal in the past few years. Inbox is done with the advent of the opening up the private media channels. The time we only had one or 2 and largely it was dominated by the state channels. So there wasnt as much freedom of debate. No, youre absolutely right. Focused on the media and boca study, society is much more open to debating different perspectives, especially on international issues. Perhaps we dont reflect as much on our own internal issues with, with that much objectivity or mindedness, but certainly on international issues. Yes. Focus on is a very vibrant place to discuss things. And i think coming from a russian background or a chinese background. Yes, the diplomat, some the journalist would definitely notice, but then narratives of china or even a much more balanced fashion. I do want to discuss the broader issues. But before we go there, uh, let me ask you a specifically about uh, uh your success as a fi per file, woman, professional woman. And you said before that it was a little bit of a challenge. Because with maam, if im quoting, you are correct plane, there is a presumption that they are competent. Um, though with women at least the initial presumption is that they have a pretty phase now. And you clearly have both i one day that gives you any advantage of serious advantages. And this still fairly patriarchal society, like pick a son because you know that i assume theyre not too many women like like yourself or have the power of both the beauty and the brain. So i think the box on is, is a patriarchal society, youre right. And in most feels that there is a male dominant structure. I think women are doing fantastic, well in some areas, but really its got to be scaled up. Yes, women for my son class who are already educated, pass for an education do very well and they have access to capital through that family well. So, you know, so those people are obviously doing well. And i know im from a middle class family. I have access to Educational Opportunities in england on marriage and i think thats where focused on is has to be a challenge, is the marriage has been eroded to such an extent, what happened to them by favoritism. And by politicize ation of organizations, government organizations and entities and even in the private sector. So i do think that in that sense that has to be an overall rethink of the way our society is structured because it is turning away the middle class and is also inhibiting womens talents. But in terms of women striving and making, you know, periods strides in society. Yes, absolutely. But female pilots, fight to pilots. Even people. Uh, a lady whos climb mount everest, you know. Yeah. But its funny. Uh, women are at the forefront of fashion, music textiles. All sorts of architecture of all sorts of fields, but it is not wide spread throughout society and we do have some very real issues. For example, i was in a corporate entity hearing crunchy, where i live. And i on for surely how to encounter Sexual Harassment in the workplace and insight, i have launched a case, filed a complaint against the ceo company, which is ongoing in the courts. And id love to great deal about the real challenges women face in the workplace even today, and that has to be rectified. Well, thats the interesting youre saying, because you also spoke a lot about respecting yourself. I mean, taking yourself seriously not pompously, not the match, the stickly, but seriously enough to stand for it for what you believe and to develop the talents that were given to you. And as much as that seems to be a key to your own personal success, i wonder if thats also something that allows any nation to grow, you know, taking yourself seriously for what you are a risk all your, you know, witnesses but also yes. Trying. Absolutely. I mean, self belief is a trait that you cannot do without its a prerequisite of success. If you dont believe in yourself, nobody else will to and itself, police is about a core value that you have. I mean, its about having a set to go using principles in your life and sticking by them. And believing that that roadmap for your life is the one youre going to follow with those principles. What you dont abandon this principles. You can change root, you can change tactics, you can even sometimes change the destination for the principles of bad to carry you through. Youre going to use this one Prime Minister pocket spot and were on the phone. And you know, he talked about that as well and hes a great proponent of that incredible determination. So. Ready please give the vision to a country on a National Level, but also to display that in your own lifetime with his achievements. I think hes a great example of what self police can do. This transformed you from a well floss cricket to, to a well plus philanthropist to an educational list and now to a national leader, and indeed a Global Leader offering. We have to take a very short break right now, but well be back in just a few moments. Stay tuned. The nato has made it clear in teams. Its a queen, proxy war against russia as ex, essential, as such, russia to cease the conflict as ex, essential, it could not be otherwise, there will be no, it goes straight. At the end of this conflict, one side will lose. The smart money is not on binding ordination the welcome back to world the 1st day of the semester. We talked about this tiny Public Policy analyst and tv brought the best time measuring. Before the break we started talking about the self perception and national perception. And i know that seems to returning to back to some of youve done a lot of consulting and communication work for various like a sending entities, including uh, i believe, a couple of, uh, government agencies. And when our i speak to back to sending people, i tend to hear the practice that has an image problem. Is that indeed an image problem or is it a problem of self perception . To i think is 1st, i think it may be the image of the program is because of the self perception problem that i think having lived here now for all of us 2 decades. I feel that focused on these. I still. A going through the journey of developing an identity, a National Identity. There is the, you know, we talked earlier about the vibrancy and the dynamics of the media. Will all sorts of use and narratives have a chance to, to page and come to the for. But that also has a downside in that. Everything is up for debate. Nothing is agreed on some of the most fundamentals, for instance, right now, the country is going through a massive political, economic, and constitutional crisis. Because even you know, well interesting is can say that they would choose not to accept the supreme court, but next 9, any other country that would be insoluble, inviolable. You couldnt say that. So here, even those basic fundamentals are still being debated and for talent, focus on the 75 years old. And i think the self identity is going to transform younger people are coming in at 65 percent of the population. That under the age of 35. 00, then on yes, and those Decision Making seats and positions that i think youll be able to generate the vendor and generation page. The way younger people will come and that identity will become more solid when youre saying that 75 percent of the population now fairly young. I mean, for people of those age, its natural to be concerned about how they look in the, in the eyes of the outside world. Speaking of which we both participated in a conference recently organized by these. Lemme about security diagram. You gave a very interesting presentation, analyze in various countries, efforts to present the National Image uh to the world. And the what i saw sounds very funny is that the practice on is continually trying to develop one seems sort of a upcoming potential. You had the companions like vibrant practice done the rising practice on emerging factor so, so theres always some, uh, this expectation of the same thing and yeah, you dont seem to be able to stick window isnt with, with one slogan in particular, why do you think that is i mean, both the commitment to this particular theme of and developing potential but also not being able to flight like let adult plan or. Yeah, because i think the one thing that everybody does agree on is that we havent reached out to him. So theres lots of potential, but it hasnt been maximized. It hasnt actually grown and bloomed yet. I think thats what we do all agree on. So various reasons. So thats why the theme is always emerging or coming up for about to come up or about to fully realize the reason they, they couldnt agree on the same as again with the politic peak, fractured new governments, come in, they immediately change everything. The previous government did you know, as far as possible, i think until we reach that level of political maturity, its going to be very difficult. As i said, i do have a great deal of hope as the most people in boxes on the new generation will allow this change to happen because, you know, as they come up and they come into these Decision Making positions, they will not have the package of history and do vision that the older generation jobs, and thats why im very hopeful about. But on the other hand, i think its not only pakistan who is going through this very difficult challenge of a essentially differentiation because we live in an era and the political era. When most countries have to think consciously, not about just their external image, but about where they stand politically, economically, home based, so forth. When they dont support what they want to or um, they ask for themselves what, what theyre willing to give to others. Its and its a very, very difficult process for most countries. I interviewed people from around the world and i think everybodys pretty much going through the same process of uh, sort of a weakening of the self worth, not only on a personal level, but on, on a National Level and even the interNational Level. And i know its a big question, but the, your a person that was a big original so, so i want to ask you, what do you think is taking all of us as humanity, this sort of burgeoning of potential all around the world. And everybodys seeing themselves somewhat differently from how you know others prefer them to be the same to hey, this is one of the great revolutions of social media. It has opened up access to information, but it is also allow people to get their point of view. So when the reliant on these global news networks, which dominated the eightys and ninetys, but you didnt receive any alternative information or viewpoints. I think thats fantastic. And we are seeing a shift from a unipolar super power dominated well to this region, china, russia to the box, bonnie wrong, and the gulf states taking a key role in this feature. Now, india is obviously a strategic ally of the united states, but it has asserted its independence inside reform policy issues and decisions. For example, in 14 oil from russia. So focused on unfortunately, hasnt been able to do that because as you know, iran, hans government was ousted to a very controversial no confidence. But last year, immediately after he visited russia and wanted to negotiate with president instead about enforcing quote from russia. And i think thats a classic example of where super power has used its influence to interfere with either directly or indirectly, the politics of a developing country. And, you know, its, its sad that they do that because i think those days are over. Now the public is much more aware of whats being done to them. You know, its not 1953 where you can replace an elected democratic government wrong and replace it with the shop. The cars. I mean, you know, you, for a country can, you know, you, if some people are used to certain ways of doing politics, they will try that until those ways will become totally and effective. So anyway, its a natural process. You know, it was very interesting if he is to go i so the late um tony ben, who is uh, real slow. So versus politics. And he on bbc weld and he was opposite john bolton, whos a us diploma. And they were talking about something and tony been made this amazing comment. He said, you know, both are in part the you k, m, the us are in decline and youve got to accept that. And you know, youve been very read on stuff from the american from john bolton, but he was an amazingly gracious person 30, but i think he was absolutely right. Those empires are in decline on throughout the street. Youve seen and paused decline and others take that place and now it is the rise of asia. Its the 21st century. And these regions will we want to trade with our neighbors. We should be able to trade with russia, you know, we sho