Here, and most people are familiar with detroits crisis, but chicagos is whooshes. People have been streaming . However, on facebook, we have the flip side yeah, and theres a lot of subtext to this covering. It would be easier if Michael Jordan came today. It would be nice, right . A super hero . The citys Pension Systems for the police and city laborers were sort by 20 billion by the entof 2012. And to put that in perspective, for every dollar owed. Theres only 20 cents in the bank, and that doesnt even include the teachers, which has its own 8 billion shortfall. So that all adds up to that 28 billion hole that we were talking about. Just this month, the state legislature put into law rules that will help to fix it. Elaine has been active on the new legislation. And joining us, fred, a retired k5 art teacher out of chicago. The former president of the districts 54 parkridge association. In our google hang out, tony martin, firefighter and secretary for the Firefighters Benefit Fund of chicago. And if investigation with the better governments association. Weapon to all of you. So representative, earlier this month, the legislation passed a pension reform bill, but chicago was not included. And give us the highlights of how the state is trying to solve the problem and why chicago is not in the process. The state has a 100 million liability that was putting a squeeze on the rest of the budget. So just in the last two years alone, out of our revenue expenditures, the pension had increased 2 billion just in the last years, and we devoted 22 cents of every tax dollar to making our pension payment, while most states in the country are in the 4 to 5cent range. So we needed a plan to allow us to pay down that debt over the next 30 years, and i think that we have a sound plan now that will allow us to do that. The city of chicago has its own Pension Funds, as you mentioned, and we have a think the sense was that we wanted to come to some conclusion on the state funds before we would turn our attention to the city funds. But i think their payments are increasing dramatically and having a very dramatic squeeze on their ability to provide other current City Services and also, the state to put a plan in place to help chicago, or can chicago choose to act independently . The citys funds are state statutes, so it will require with the legislature. With local Pension Funds, we have the countywide reclamation district. And they came with their own plans, and came to us and we passed them. So bob, with detroit and other cities, this is not something that happened overnight, but are there key factors that you can point to that are major contributors to this crisis. I think that the biggest factor is that it was a problem that was ignored way too long, and as a result, a lot of the problems piled up. You have the fact that the Pension Funds were not funded properly for years at a time. And in addition to that, it may not be realistic, and when you put it all together, you have a real problem, and then the backdrop, a weakening and slowing me, and this is one of the reasons that this is such a flashpoint for the general population, they see their paychecks getting small for their bills going up, and they look at public employees, and the pensions that theyre supposed to be getting, and theyre angry about that. Not always justified. But theyre definitely angry about it. And you saw that in the state of illinois, where there was an an reform. We have seen that. Tony, youre a firefighter in the nations Third Largest city, and did chicago make promises to you that you feel theyre not going to keep . First of all, i would like to address something that i have said. Number one, the mayor and the commission came out and said that our benefits are much more generous and we contribute more on average to pay for our benefits. I believe that we can resolve this issue. We have never not been here. Our pensions almost went broke from 1837 to 1981. In 1981, we started a new system. The secretary treasurer said that we would be broke in the year 2013. And just like the firemen, were still standing. We have big challenges. Lisa, illinois residents are upset chicagos pension fund is underfunned. But its not because of its employees of our employees have faithfully paid into the fund for the past 118 years, never missing a payment. But the schools skipped their payments from 1996 to 2005. And then they got a Pension Holiday from the Illinois Legislature of 1. 2 billion. And thats why were in trouble these days. Fred, i want to bring in the conversation, you are a retired teacher and talk to us. Who would you blame for this crisis . The state legislature. For the last 60 years, the republicans and democrats have failed to meet their obligation into paying into their share of the pension fund. Those of us like myself, who taught for 30 years, we got hired under the understanding that we would pay 9 and a half percent out of our salary into the future retirement system, run by the state of illinois. That we would invest that money and get a return, which they have, and that the legislature would pay their share. The legislature has not paid their share, and they have not paid it for decades. Representative makes it sound as if and bob kind of suggested that everyone is to blame. But the employees arent to blame. The state employees arent to blame and the teachers are not to blame. What we did, we signed a contract in which we were guaranteed a certain percentage of our sally when we retire. And a 3 cost of living adjustment. Representative has decided that the driver for the economic problems in the state of illinois is the retired teacher down in paducha, who might be 70 years old, and gets a pension of less than 40,000 a year, and a cost of living adjustment, which is what their bill took away that its somehow going to solve the problems of the state. And its ridiculous. Hang on, and pause there for a second, fred. And i want to get the representative in here. You were the first to agree that the problems with illinois, they have had a funding problem for decades, but is it a reasonable representation on the part of illinois residents to expect at some point, over the last 10, 20, or 40 years that someone in the state legislature would have said, hey, guys, we have a problem here. And we need to hold up and fix this before it gets worse. How could this possibly have snowballed for decades . It has always been my goal to not fix the blame, but to fix the problem. And the facts are what they are right now, and i agree that the teachers and the state employees and the University Employees faithfully paid in, and they didnt have any choice in that matter. And the state didnt make its required payments and was never required by law to do so. And thats one of the major fixes. Representative, is that how it happened . Because they werent required to do it by law . That they sort of shrugged and said, theres a problem, but were not required to address it by law. Law. I realize that you werent part of the legislature 10, 20, 30 years ago, but in your estimate t. Is that what happened. I dont know if it was the Pension Systems or the leng similarities, or governors, we have never looked to the actual waries to tell us what is required to fund the Pension System and how to get there. Over the next 30 years, beer on a scheduled plan, with no gains to get us the funding in 30 years. Representative, you have found someone to blame, because the only ones paying are the employees in the state retirement system. Nobody else is paying other than what they were originally required to pay. Its those of us who were either retired or will be retired who are the only ones paying a price for 60 years of fraud. We had a contract. Can i respond . You violated that contract. Of the 100 billion that is owed right now, 79 billion is still going to be paid by taxpayers. And that debt is going to have to be paid by taxpayers over the next 30 years. So of the 100 billion, almost 80 billion, we did not touch. And thats going to be required to pay by taxpayers. We need to get to break. Were going to get back to the conversation in 2 minutes, i promise. Still ahead, the dollar figures that were talking about are in a lot of ways too big to wrap your arms around. When we come back, retirees and younger workers caught up in a broken system. Was Prince William was dating kate middleton. Ross shimabuku is here with sport. Dennis rodman is in north korea to train basketball players for an upcoming player. He wants everyone to know hes not a joke. This is the same guy who dressed up in a wedding gown and will rite a book with his bff, kim jong un. The 52yearold rodman, who never shies away from the spotlight arrived in north korea consider this the news of the day plus so mu welcome back, chicagos mayor, ron immanuel, says that if the city doesnt change Retirement Benefits and changes, chins will see a cut in vital services, and do you see a way forward here where everybody gives in a little to mitigate some of the damage. You have to understand, the city doesnt have the same problems that are just with the state of illinois. The state of illinois is paying 20 cents on the dollar toward their pension plans, and the city of chicago is paying 5 or 6 cents. Were going to have to pay 300 million more. To suggest that the city doesnt have room in order to pay is ludicrous. I think when we all sit down and work together, we are going to be able to come up with a solution thats fair to everybody involved. But obviously, whats important to me is upholding article 13, not reducing or diminishing benefits for current employees. Theres nothing to take for us. Most of us dont have 3 . We have 1 and a half percent for age 60. Chicago, stockton, san bernardino, and riverside, and san jose and new york, they have some pension problems. But talk about the nation, and what people predict to be a wave of bankruptcies coming. Theyre probably early indicators, because theyre all running into the same problem. When we look at it nationally e. From rhode island to california, youre looking at unfunded pensions and the train on budgets, whether its state or county budgets. There has to be a way to rationalize the system. I agree with tony, theres a way to find an answer to this. Theres a political way to do it, and it can be done. The issue to me, you have to balance it between the cuts, and then the revenue side. And i think the question in illinois thats going to come up next is, what do you do with a temporary state income tax hike that we have . Does that become permanent . You have to start addressing the revenue issue as well. And i think that has been part of the discussion that has been somewhat ignored as we focused on cuts and trying to get on the good side. Bob, im going to get to chicago what would you sigh as a shortterm solution to save illinois . Short and longterm solution on this is very simple. You had a situation in illinois where the richest man in illinois, ken griffin, a friend of the mayor, hes the richest man in illinois, and he pays the exact state Interest Rate as an associate of walmart. I want to thank all of our guests, until next time, raj and i will see you online at aljazeera. Com the stream. With check good morning. This is Al Jazeera America live from new york city. Im Thomas Drayton with a look at your headlines. The United Nations evacuated about00 staffers, most americans. Rebel fighters have been trying to overthrow the government, claiming ethnic discrimination. Into monday is the key deadline for the Affordable Care act, people must select a health plan in if he want coverage from january 1st. Chase bank is trying to monitor customers cards. They are limiting drawings to 100, and customers can only spend 300