Your voice your views here we are 12 minutes to 1 in the morning and what are you talking about bricks it yeah I think I want you to change my name and you just feel like hockey team in today's menu tomorrow's day story and you're on the phones excellent show to see 909 on the b.c. Radio 5 Live. This is up we're not on 5 Live and also 90 but coming up in this hour of the program nature wrong we will fade tribute to the. Woman who was known as the 1st black woman on television in the United States indeed her series came over in our number as a young boy watching it was amazing it's amazing actually she was the 1st black woman to have her own sick call I didn't know these things at the time I was just a young man which is amazing series in the United States and it was a series that lead to attack and this was a black woman a single mother and her family we'd never seen that before in television you know going back sort of 40 years or perhaps 50 years or so yeah yeah cos I didn't realize I was an old but dying Carol has died too late Rodion she was known as and forgive the language this is genuinely as they referred to her in Hollywood the 1st . Let me spell it out it's b. . Asterisk t.c.h. Television I'm saying that way because she was in dentistry opposite Joan Collins. Or Joan Collins that was the fam for towels let's put it that way that's a better way of putting it and we will talk about John Carroll later on 1st the British prime minister Burroughs Johnson is again insisted that there can be no further perspire Mint breaks it which is judged take place at the end of this month he tweeted the message New Deal or No Deal but no delay he may. Decision despite the government handing in documents to a court in Scotland saying that it will last the e.u. For an extension to the Braggs the deadline if there's no deal by the 19th of October and this comes as the European Commission says the proposals put forward by Mr Johnson to break the deadlock in Briggs's negotiations do not provide the basis for concluding an agreement spoke to Kate Ironside who's a former political journalist is now a senior lecturer in journalism at the University of North empting and I asked her if she couldn't lie to us as to what's going to happen on October 31st Ok extremely blunt no because it is confusing you have that written undertaken given to the Scottish court that was revealed on Friday that contrary to everything he has said the prime minister would write a letter to the European Union if he hasn't got a deal by the 19th of October all skiing for an extension but at the same time you have the prime minister standing up. And saying. You know we are leaving on the 31st of October we will put no delay it will be Deal or No Deal both things cannot be true hence the confusion. Everybody is confused at the highest levels of government the e.u. E.u. Is computerized. It doesn't add up both cannot be true how will it get back to what we do know for sure we do know that the u.k. Government has lost tabled some proposals we do know that the European Union is looking at those proposals with a deep intake of breath we know that the Irish government has said the reservations about them the likelihood of Boris Johnson's proposals being accepted by the. E.u. Looks. And yet they do not want to be blamed for any new deal. What you might have is the European Union turning around saying hey look this is a stall out let's give you an extension we could talk about it. And then the interesting question is Would Johnson except that extension and that we don't know even if. I meet under one scenario you could say well maybe from the European Union's perspective and particularly from the perspective when that backs are against the war the prospect of a chaotic deal would be damaging it could be devastating for the e.u. For the u.k. But it would still be damaging for the e.u. And particularly for all and maybe the Boris Johnson alternative is a slightly less outcome so if the u.k. Is going to go anyway maybe better slightly better that way this is in the sense. Of the dream scenario so they don't agree the Greece to it at the summit on something. He returns to Westminster in triumph and gets parliament to pass it we leave on the 31st of all them. A general election and. Alternatively. If the e.u. Says in a nice try maybe there's something we can talk about why don't we have an extension . We get to the the 19th of October no deal is required Boris Johnson is then with quiet and has given an undertaking to the Scottish court to light a letter to the e.u. Saying hey I too want an extension of the e.u. So yeah what we've offered you an extension. Interesting thing is there's nothing in the in the bin Act requiring Boris Johnson to offer an extension there's nothing that says he has to accept it is the but even if we have an extension then Boris Johnson can turn round and say to parliament this is ridiculous let's have a general election Jeremy cool when the Labor leader has repeatedly said that he would consider a general election once there was an extension once no deal was at least temporarily off the table in which case so we will then get a general election will go into the general election say listen I'm battling Boris I've done my best on trying to deliver Bracks it on the foiled by parliament to the e.u. From a give me a majority of will ram this through once and for who or let's get bricks it done I mean you can hear him saying it right now indeed he's been saying pretty much little else that might be one way it would pan out. The other interesting fact is is. Supposing he does make headway with these proposals and these proposals would take the u.k. Out of the Customs Union but leave. In the single market for goods a baying the e.u. Quantum's putting a border. Down the arbor see something do you pay under 3 to my. Clay opposed. But they were you know they pulled the plug on treason by repeatedly every time she contemplated but now I want to Boris Johnson it is apparently Ok all right fine but the Boris Johnson plan would involve some form of customs checks in Northern Ireland as that. Is a complete. Pull back from what to reason may have been offering to resign my pledge knowing full of hobbled and no full checks this is now saying we're going to have we're going to put back a customs border they will have to be checks we will make them as minimal as possible but even if you say there is no checks at the border. You still need customs offices somewhere doing checks somewhere and those customs offices could then become vulnerable to attack from nationalist dissidents which point those customs offices will need protection so you don't have to bring all the police to night and have to bring on the army and we will be sliding back to the troubles in the troubles you know the name of the guns in Northern Ireland have never gone away. They are still there they are still operating in plain sight you only need to think back to east. Of La Ricky that young journalist shot by accident by the new on your way during lighting in Derry and there were posters up and Derry warning the local populace not to talk to the police about McCain saying we know who you are you don't you talk you go you know when the police Lee We will still be here. And neither the police and the local authorities have the gumption to take those notices down that just underlines the power of the member with the guns still in all in all it give them an excuse bring back some for border checks and we will be back on the slippery slope back to the Vaal and switch to Good Friday Agreement which is probably one of the greatest political achievements. Certainly I think in political life time. Pace that would be seriously at risk we understand. In that you mentioned the Benedict that is the legal obstacle that the government has to comply with or navigate its way yes the yes the then Act It requires Boris Johnson to ask for an extension if he hasn't got a deal by the 19th of October Is there any way around it. Oh well this is the interesting question I mean it was drafted by some 1st class lawyers who hoped they had made it as watertight as possible the difficulty is number 10 Keep say ah way again to obey the law. But we're going to test the Benedict we're going to abate the law but we're still going to leave Deal or No Deal those you know those are 2 contradictory statements so where is the loophole those who drafted the Bennett act don't know whether. They are not sure the big speculation the former prime minister John Major conservative promise to John Major who failed you know it was amongst those who took Boris Johnson to court Supremes court he fears Boris Johnson will use of all the all Kate full of procedure called an order of counsel for the Privy Council that. He John Major feels could be used to circumvent it. I mean we are now really playing around with the obscurities in the rarities of British constitutional procedures. In exploiting things that have been used very very very long time in ways that they have not been used before but then again we seen a government that has been willing to tear up convention all of the cause of we are delivering the will of the people we've got to deliver we are in a terrible mess we've been looked at every pause and the will of the people most trial against all else that will in extension then result in an election. I think that is Boris Johnson's number one go on election because if the pain him if you look at the opinion polls although they are volatile at the mainland you know on average the conservatives have a 9 point lead over labor. I think thinking in Number 10 is the Jeremy cool being. Is very easy to beat even though Jeremy called and gave to reason by a heck of a run for money in 2017. They believe that the wheels coming off the Gerry Cobain leadership the young and enthusiastic supporters is on now disenchanted by Corbin's own reluctance to come down in favor of when Main. Germy cool been very much when one's sitting on the fence when it comes to bricks it. He's offering to negotiate a new deal and then have another referendum. But he's not prepared to advocate full blooded killer Maina stalled and it has helped is one of the factors that has been undermining Jeremy Coburn leaving aside you know the control the Cesar Semitism and so forth because Labour's amidst all the focus on the 2 respects Labor has been having its own good say privately it is being very very public you look at the shenanigans at the party conferences the 10 to one seat the deputy leader from the conservative point of view they're seeing the main opponent is seriously would now the conservative government you might say a pretty much on that and they. Desperately cling to the finishing line. But they think against to weaken the potent like this. With Boris Johnson who is certainly a douchy campaigner they think they have a child's and they see if this election is going to become essentially the brakes it election. The way Boris Johnson's camp would view it is leaf supporters have no where to go really Ok yes I know there's not a. Party but the conservative pitch will be. Johnson is fighting tooth and nail to get bricks it done he's the only man who has a fighting chance of becoming Prime Minister Nigel for a large coffee point in this. Rally Round Boris get us over the line and they hope to pick up leaves supporters. In a lot of traditional lead a seat. And then what the remaining fracture between the Liberal Democrats the Greens labor might go every which way in the meantime you know the s. And. Pe will be making them again north of the border. And what Boris Johnson would hope is the conservatives come through the middle and end up with I would say a hefty majority but a workable Joe Ritchie a decent one George that would actually enable him with should we say the light members of part members of parliament because we have seen some Conservative M.P.'s prepared to fight him to the bitter end. Cut off his nose to spite his face in a way kicked out $21.00 of. The 2nd thought. There is likely to be a coalition well that so see that is assuming that. If the Conservatives lose any next election. That if there is no clear winner and a hung parliament is. A credible alternative. Then what happens Josue and soon the Liberal Democrat leader has been an increase a really really on enthusiastic about the possibility of going into coalition with Jeremy Corbett and we must remember that the Liberal Democrats have a very bad experience of going into coalition last on they did so with the conservatives they saw their number of Parliament tree seats reduced from 57 to just 8. Which was savage. Conserved. But politically and then attention. No no no no but if the price of going into coalition with anybody means that he decimated the following next election why would they give in to coalition with even with labor because the genie appall of any coalition. History tells us gets hammered at the next. Action liberal Democrats are paid a terrible price for going into coalition with anyone and they're going to be very reluctant to do it again so the interesting question is Where else would turn to his eyes or go over the border to the s.n.p. . And the s.n.p. Made it clear that they would be willing to talk and of course what would be the s. And P's price another referendum on Scottish independence wouldn't it. So you know there would be a price to pay the Liberal Democrats might lend their support to a Labor government informally simply to prevent a hard bricks it toward. Anything from the Liberal Democrats perspectives that actually could even one of us pricks it because that is what the Liberal Democrats all committed to they would work with labor but I don't see them going into coalition with them Same with anybody labor. Not even the Labor Party simply because they got their fingers so badly beforehand. And of course they take a very dim view of Jeremy Coburn himself if you had a different type of leader. I think they would be able to work much more closely together the moment was when wrestling with all of these issues over here Joyce Yes . What about the perspective from Brussels do you think there will come a point no doubt if it comes it will come in the next Sure well there will come a point where the European Union says that that's it we've just had enough as you please u.k. Leave your bags in. Human wouldn't it it really would be. And certainly President Michael of frauds has been making all making it very clear look you know the Brits taking you for a bright This is ridiculous enough isn't off he was against the last extension. Run trade the one thing that will keep the e.u. Hanging on in its all and on is it remains a member of the European. And no deal is going to her. Very hold they will be very conscious they are there to support one of their own. No longer one of their own where heading towards the exit door but they will stand foursquare behind on oil and. So I think they will be guided. Considerably by doubloons wishes and if Dublin wants another extension there will be another extension and if you can just keep talking and talking and somehow. A no deal breaks it or you know soften the bricks it deal to Olens advantage that will always be worth doing actually on the subject of the all of on and there's another element to all of this which is extraordinary is. Monks Boris Johnson's proposals whole speech is that the Northern Ireland Assembly would have a veto every 4 years only deal that's been proposed in all the law and which after which is underpinning you know this is. Proposals is all about. The future trade relations between the e.u. And the u.k. Would be at the mercy of a regional assembly a regional assembly which has been suspended since January 27th teen and no sign of getting back together again certainly won't be back together by October the 31st I mean that's cloud cuckoo land but the idea. E.u. Would agree to a circumstance where a regional assembly could tear up. The trading agreement it has with a now the government I think is something that is going to be completely unacceptable to it it frankly should be completely unacceptable to the u.k. When the hold evolution section was mapped out Westminster made every very sure that control of international trade and foreign policy remained at Westminster you didn't get gave a regional assembly all the general parliament say no that remained it was meant to but instead Boris Johnson No we will gave the Northern Ireland Assembly and the executive. I say every 4 years if they want to carry on and if they say no. Then the deal is off. Now even if let's just assume this deal gets approved which is such a big if it. If it does get approved and if and this is another big if a neon lights the northern December early start is to its feet start be 2 months ago . Then every 4 years is. Both in the u.k. Government are going to have to go look at Stallman say pretty please can you live in New. New trading arrangements and if somebody says no it goes up in smoke and you can imagine the plights that still want might Demond from all sides to agree to a renewal I mean before I mean we are now getting. Into truly Lupino and. This is such a bizarre scenario the idea that a regional simply would have a veto on any of this we understand why Boris Johnson's proposed that it would keep the boat but it's frankly one for the birds and I see many ways Boris Johnson is a bit like a man he's placing bets on multiple horses but he just needs ones come in to win the jackpot but we don't know which one to spin it but if I get to mix my metaphors now he's spinning so many plates one of these plates several of these plates many of these plates might crash he just needs to keep one in the air. The interesting thing is I think he you know his number one goal get done almost done get an election from his perspective hopefully win it win it. The interesting thing then will be how the realities of bricks play out it's going to be very tough in all the knowledge it will be a very hard hit for the u.k. You know the possibility of the key the poll. Of disruption. In supplies all of which were set out in the government's operation yellow Hamma paper . Don't make for easy reading. In it could be a Walkie right. And if we end up with a known deal while the the outlook for that was supposedly set out in a government paper called Operation Black Swan We've not we not have not seen that yet but if it was an operation. In a it's great to be a pound it really is going to be a pound of course how did that not lead to the fact that has to be fair. If. Bush Johnson's thesis is right once for out of the customs union then we can negotiate always wonderful trade deals and all sorts of new opportunities. Will open up the any difficulty is that international trade deals to take toy to walk at least. There is that interregnum and in the a between which could go on for years and he is in years and that it could dead the economy if trade takes it down because of it if the economy takes a downturn then that's good to be that Bush Johnson's government will have much less money at disposable disposal to spend all those wonderful promises be making the Conservative Party conference about investing in public services Kate Ironside the of the University of North them to knowledge of the news and sport we will hear of the 7 The unofficial 7 of Monte Python member in any case 1st let's get middle aged 5 Edwards has Emily. Home digital b.b.c. Sound must be gone but this is b.b.c. 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