If the House of Representatives decides and proceed the impeachment against him will be declaring war on American democracy when hell is whether the American people agree with him and whether the president's intervention and in this case will make any difference in the Democrat's decision and we'll bring you the news in one of the morning papers oh by the way does our national treasure Dame Vera Lynn need a chase Oh is she a tonic in his cell phones and plays on a postcard called a text message Our number is 85058 that's our checks number love to hear from your now and. First and usually let me start by bringing you the news that was sent to my Twitter feed earlier on today by our colleague rod shop he says I have a big thing to say April the 2nd 2020 will be the last time anyone pays me for being up all night after that it will be strictly voluntary fare not the show will go on plans are already being made for an extra special swansong Ok. 1st of all let me just say behalf of me and my colleagues we genuinely genuinely as well. Moved by his statement from my Twitter feed so many of you. Many people are quite shocked actually pulls his scent and so he's saying things Britain is better off not losing the Ravens of the Tower of London the lines trophy and the legendary Raja on b.b.c. 5 Live Derek says you've kept me company along with Dawson anybody for as many years as I can remember in parts of the world a current member will be greatly missed Rod may I wish you well for the future thank you for your welcoming tones ever so many years and Cameron says oh no Rod who missed your voice in wisdom who will wrangle daughter as he goes on a most interesting tangent and shown more compared to me one of several people actually he compared me to if Raj Shah I'm sure Rod would like this by the way. He says I'm Bob Marley Road shop his Johnny Cash somebody had to be Johnny Cash as well as road. Genuinely my response was my friend I hope you will not simply ride off into the sunset leaving us unsatisfied in that in some shape or form you will keep giving us pleasure live and own up for. A radio legend and by the way the extra special swan song should be Frank Sinatra singing Thanks for the memory Now let me just say very quickly Rod hasn't gone he will be here as he says it is to eat till April but I'm sure many of you want to pay tribute to feel free and now an 85058 or up all night a b.b.c. Dog dog u.k. We will enjoy the next 4 months with Rod We will enjoy them a promise you that and will find some way of convincing him to reappear or not pull night as and when I guarantee. Now Pope Francis is announced that he will end pontifical secrecy as they call it in cases concerning the sexual abuse of children by priests and church officials the church previously obliged anyone bringing accusations of abuse not to disclose the details in an effort to protect the privacy of victims and reputations of the accused the move was a key demand of a church summit with large bishops arguing that it was outdated and prevented cooperation with civilian authorities we'll call him a Goldman is a survivor of clerical abuse and a campaign of victims what's required is a competent church would acknowledge in the Vatican what acknowledged Simple Proven fact of its coverup of these crimes at the global level and that it would make itself properly accountable and that means opening up its records that means committing itself to a proper and appropriate independent investigation amat means putting in place at the level of Canon Law trucks law policy underpinned by law that puts the wellbeing and rights of children and adults at the center of any trucks response trauma. Ation a complaint of sexual abuse or rape by a character by a member of the clergy that's what needs to happen what a long way off topic let's talk to Matthew shouts He's a professor of religion at the College of the Holy Cross a message she said send to Janine Kraybill who's in the system professor in the Department of Political Science at California State University in Bakersfield from a comes to you 1st of all professors from ounce expensive us how this puts If it cool secrecy would seem practice well in practice it downs everyone to secrecy so for example if I'm brain an accusation and then I can't talk about it the church also keeps it under wraps and tell a firm quote unquote firm conclusion can be made and many people rightly have made the argument that this allows the church to further cover up abuse by its members Professor Kraybill Does it surprise you that the the pope is now deciding to do something about this in 2 ended. Not necessarily early in his pontificate Francis had been pressured to do away with the with this level of secrecy essentially pontifical secrecy when it came to clergy misconduct and then it was dropped and what had happened is in a visit. To Latin America to Chile in 2018 he didn't appear in interviews as sensitive to victims that were alleging sexual abuse by clergy and he really got blowback from that and so that led to a summit in February of this year at the Vatican to address these issues and he was further pushed. By members of the clergy and high ranking members of the data can that his German cardinal ran hard marks to really really visit the secrecy rules and so I think with the mounting pressure from really across the globe and even now within the all his own ranks of some of his clergy that he felt compelled that this was the time to do this and particularly here for example in the United States we have about 15 states that are starting to rebuild it our geishas of sexual abuse so I think that the pope was feeling that his hands were tied here Professor shots that doesn't sound good does it was pressure to push did to making a decision like this is this genuine glasnost all to restrike Oh what you want to call it. I do think it's genuine but I would agree with the characterization that Pope Francis has been rather late to the game when. Considering the magnitude and seriousness of the sexual abuse crisis in her interesting even though Francis is very much against clerical privileges this very important issue he hasn't been as quick to move as many. If his supporters would have liked so I do believe it's an important step albeit a small one and so we'll have to see particularly whether the bishops are going to police themselves in these matters because that is an open question what penalty should apply to ships who cover up sexual abuse in their diocese. Jeannine what a lot of listing might not understand is how the church can have a. I suppose a procedure is god's to series Count crimes like this that is over and above criminal procedure that everybody else would have to be subject to how can the churches and procedure take precedence over what might be a police matter. Well I don't think that it necessarily is that it takes precedence I think that this is evident as a culture of just such a severe deference to clericalism Rafiq clericalism within the class Catholic Church and the universal church that has just frankly over ways existed and so canon law is the law of the church and that's the law that governs the church and so the church will handle to a degree certain matters with in the hierarchy and within its own faith their practices and dogmas and doctrines but it shouldn't ever exempt these allegations from actually going through a criminal process in regards to law outside of the church insist that there has been this practice that we've you know now unfortunately seen that has been existed for decades where the church really tried to handle this internally and that's where particularly when this you know there's been allegations of sexual abuse that go back centuries and most of us know that but this really started to come to a forefront in a head in the seventy's eighty's and ninety's and then exploded in diocese like Boston and Los Angeles in the 2000 and that's when it started to become apparent that aha this was being handled well with in more so than that those dynamics of a canon law and really giving a lot of deference to Cobo Hall diocese to handle listen this is when the bishops frankly started to shuffle these priests around as opposed to turning them over so the church can still have its internal investigation in case they need to defrock a priest or what have you but that doesn't mean that it should be exempt or hit and from criminal procedures and that's where we're finally sadly getting to now is that both could be happening but just on the point is there no evidence that information. From the authorities. Least accuses the accused have been protected by the church from facing justice I live in western Massachusetts which is 40 miles away from Boston and this sexual abuse crisis has really hit home here since there was a. Pattern over decades of crimes being covered up and priests being reassigned and so forth so this is a pressing concern even recently the Bishop of Buffalo New York was forced to resign because of mishandling of sexual abuse scandals so the problem is by no means. Has been fully addressed and so this is again what the pontiff it's doing is a small step but an important one but many more need to follow is it true nevertheless Matthew that as of now. As of this moment before the. The pope decides to end this will brings it to an end that could still not compelled to report the cases of you to the police. They are compelled in depends on diocese usually but there is a particular debate over the secrecy of the confessional So for example if someone were to confess abuse within the context of the confessional the priest is not required to report it and various state legislatures are trying to address that by effectively removing the. Curtain of secrecy around the confessional which itself is something controversial it does make the Catholic church sound like a sect doesn't it when you have you know codes of conduct codes of secrecy it's said show is this sufficient to modernize it would need to change and move fundamental ways. For you know the. Catholic Church is it is a universal faith and it is. You know if it is a longstanding institution the change is like my colleague has specified is this is a change in the right direction but it's going to be a slow go. You know I I think that one of the comments that were just brought up in regard to the can the confessional we know it was announced today by Bishop Juan Ignacio aread said that you know that hasn't changed that idea got that see also applies to the confessional So I think that that you know the idea of kind of opening up witness testimony or things that are brought on any kind of allegations that are brought forth to the church now are going you know people don't have to be found at this high level of confidentiality is a move in the right direction but they're still you know a lot to a lot of ways that we need to improve and I do think it's going to be a bit of a of a slow go as the Church finally starts to grapple with this is just one of the beginning steps but it is meaningful and historic in some regard why does the confessional need to still be secret completely secret so opposing this will soon not originate somebody might confess to we say the priest should keep that confidential. Well I don't I'm not part of the clergy and I don't make the rules for the church but the idea is that congressionally kids and our and our guests example would be almost like attorney client privilege even though you know that's a secular route and this is a secular religious realm but part of it is just that that that in order for someone to be able to have you know that basic and fast a grave sin like that that they would be able to have that base and then you would change the dynamic. Of confession and the graces that Catholics believe that confession you know bestowed on someone particularly as a sacrament and so I think the idea that you know this type of information would become public would really change the dynamics of that sacrament and the state. And our priests might try to come tell someone to come forward to authorities that that type of information perhaps with regular confession but I don't see that that veil being released anytime soon that would change it you know what a dynamic of the faith that is very ingrained does it need to be there Matthew does it need to be. I personally believe that I would draw the line with confession for Catholics and Catholic religious culture given our understanding of our relationship with God that confession and saying today is absolutely crucial though I do understand the criticisms that have been leveled against it particularly within the president garment where you can't trust the church to do the right thing nonetheless Falls is and has has carved out this place of confidentiality and I know very few Catholics certainly know priests who in the end would want it the secrecy to be told they were removed what difference would it make this ending you've put into secrecy in regards to. Cases of sexual abuse the if you would difference women well the impact well of the impact will be that certainly as an a key as the accuser as a victim of clerical sexual abuse you'll be able to without violating your ears out at the church be able to talk about your experience and so it brings more transparency to the process it also brings. A level of accountability for example I have known 6 priests implicated in the sexual abuse scandal I learned about the status of none of those priests by the Catholic Church itself it was only through the media that I learned that 6 priest that I had known had been accused of clerical sexual abuse so removing pontifical secrecy it at least allows further discourse dialogue and investigation where before you were obligated to remain silent because of your connections to the church what will the impact be Matthew get if I may. Priest who may have previously confessed their sins as it were in a confessional they do that now. Oh I'm They well they they will certainly continue to confess and confession is still. Something that is considered to be confidential However the removal pontifical secrecy will. Previous cases to be discussed publicly investigated publicly in a way that they weren't before Janine. Well I think I don't think that this will necessarily change the dynamics of the confessional expression because today it was reaffirmed by the Vatican as Office of church legislation that that was that that was not going that that the removal of pontifical secrecy from clergy misconduct was not going to be a political to the confessional so I don't I don't think it's going to affect that in any way but what I do think that it affected like my colleague specified not just a level of transparency that has been. Severely lacking but also now co-opt better cooperation between hopefully the church and law enforcement because that hasn't necessarily always happened and also to I think the idea that you know again that a member of the church whether they be a member of the clergy or lady or a female religious that if they come forward they won't necessarily you know be ostracized or even be you know. You know made to be feel uncomfortable or got their you know going against the church it just creates more of this open space by which people can start talking about the sexual abuse allegations and talking about the case as it's unfolding it you know some of this also allows for testimony that the church has gathered to be shared with local law enforcement and I think this is something that's very much needed for decades in regards to the sexual abuse scandals that have been happening particularly those now that are reopening windows for people to file such as the state of California State of New York state of New Jersey so I think that we're really going to start to see the aftermath of this play out in some of those states expression here and in the United States the pressure of these sorts of. Support of the church today and is a political pressure as much as anything. I think part of it is political pressure I think part of it is also to pressure from the laity to want more transparency it's pressure from victims' rights groups like snap Survivors Network of a you know of abuse priest I think that this is now hit a critical mass where the church knows that it's not capable of handling it properly internally and I think that the church sometimes. Thinks that it is when it has come to these issues but but they they know that the damage even to the church and the church is reputation and the faith and what you also look at for example you have clergy shortage you have also a shortage of people that are practicing in certain pockets of the world that I that this is a part of their responsibility and also a duty to to heal to be transparent and if they're wanting to stay a universal church this is this is essential. Has the the church gone far enough professor a lot of people who say look you know if it really wants to be transparent and open that some of his record needs to be need to be open to the church needs to commit to a proper and appropriate independent investigation that's unlikely to happen that is . I think right now it's unlikely to happen but I also would argue that it's an inevitability this crisis is not just about. The Catholicism in the Catholic Church in the United States or Western Europe it also involves Latin America Africa Asia so at certain at some point in time records are going to have to be open and most particularly members of the hierarchy who have covered up clerical sexual abuse need to be held accountable and that's something that still has not been done. Very fully so I do believe that right now records probably will not be opened our Vatican archives will not be open but I do think the day is not far off when the Vatican will be forced to do so do you think the Vatican and the pope recognize that this is an inevitability that they will have to be open and transparent in a much more full fright way I don't think they were recognize it yet but they will shortly that would be my prediction I think. There are still warring factions within the Vatican who you know some who want to more piecemeal. Considered approach to to the problem and so they will let go of clerical of their own clerical privilege only with the greatest deal of difficulty so I still think that there are debates that need to be sorted out in the Vatican before we get a clear. Answered Paul's Yeah Kraybill if Professor schmaltz is thesis is correct it's inevitable that the Vatican will have to open up his records is what do you think then. The what will be the instrument that pushes it to that point where his itself will it be media coverage will will it be politicians or otherwise. Well you know the. Catholic Church in regards to the sex abuse scandals across the world you've had the media. Dirt to pay you know vast attention and very very critical look at the church in that time the Vatican has just come back across fairly defensive saying that well the media I mean even have Pope Francis state this that the media is kind of distorting the severity of it I think that they know that that we're past that point now that it can't necessarily be frank about activism So I think that I think more pressure from these victims' rights groups I also think you know you have state attorneys generals that are also pressuring here in the United States but also counterparts around the world that are pressuring the Vatican you know you even have for example the international crime court in 2011 filed a complaint against the Pope and several cardinals stating that they committed human rights violations for failing to prevent these types of abuses so I think when you have you know the international community like that radio and