Hello and welcome to business daily from the B.B.C. With me meanwhile. Coming up the U.K. Is expected to take another big step towards leaving the European Union later today can the E.U. Survive its departure we asked the European Parliament's chief bricks it negotiator give a half start it's an extension moment for the European Union that's the reason it should now the time to worry for no other what it could disappear and how to get companies to sponsor your big adventures an uptick explore reveals all polar expeditions are extremely costly the bulk of of the funding comes from the larger financial institutions who are looking for a human element that's all in business daily from the B.B.C. . Later today the U.K.'s parliament looks set to approve a bill empowering the prime minister to resign May to start bricks at negotiations it means the formal process of Brecht's it will be triggered next month as expected with the U.K. Leaving the European Union 2 years later those 2 years will involve E.U. And U.K. Officials sitting at a negotiating table trying to hammer out a deal about the terms of Britain's departure and one of the people at the table will be. The former Belgian prime minister who is now the chief Breck's it negotiator for the European Parliament he's also just published a book in which he spells out his vision of how the E.U. Should reform in the face of multiple threats including of course BRICS it the book's called Europe's last chance so I asked him last chance before what before a collapse or disintegration what is always possible if we look to the pressure on the European Union for the moment coming from outside and inside outside its was building on others in the great note you know and also full of Mr Putin wants to defy the European Union then there are also the trip of jihad to. And then internally we have an enormous pressure by nationalist populist the whole question of exit so it's a nexus tension moment for the European Union that's the reason why I have written this book as a wake up call saying yeah it's certain now the time to do worry for otherwise it will disappear so your aunts are is a more federalist Europe a United States of Europe but there will be many who say you've had time to make that argument that argument is now lost nationalism is on the rise we saw it in Bret's it we see it in the high ratings of here to build us and his Freedom Party in the Netherlands as well as a 5 Star Movement in Italy have you lost the argument. You know I think there was never an attempt to establish a real European Union because the European Union doesn't exist what they exist is a configuration of nation states still based on the United material it was always acting too little too late and so people are very critical that's true towards the European Union because it's not an effective organization it's not a real bloc I should say and the consequence of this is that people are falling in the trap of national and populism and so easy for nationalist and populous to say oh you see your opinion isn't work well let's go back to the old style nation state of the 19th century So what we have to do as pro Europeans is 1st of all to be very critical towards the European Union as it works today my book is even I think more euro skeptic and every skeptic book that has been published the last yes but secondly what we have to do is to show that the answer to that criticism is not going back in the past to the nation states but is building up a real Federation in the union but there will be those who say the E.U. Has caused this problem itself by not being democratic enough and I'll give you an example voters in the Netherlands last year rejected in a referendum a partnership deal to remove trade barriers with Ukraine it was overwhelmingly against that but these preferences were not reflected in E.U. Policy basically the E.U. Wrote roughshod over that vote No sorry that's a question of the member states so it's difficult what your question is pointing the finger on an issue in the Netherlands and saying that's because of European Union that's not true at all and saying that we are not democratic I like that my of my 700 colleagues here are all elected in European elections I was myself elected more than a hole of a 1000000 votes in my constituency so it's a little bit strange that that you are saying to me. That is not democratic you know the point is not that many of the mistakes in the European Union fold a moment on. The consequence of failing is it Dushan all system that we have mainly thought member states 28 coming together who have still to take all the decisions that you know by unanimity and that doesn't work that is the key problem that you must be concerned that your arguments are going to fall on deaf ears and in your book you just to quote you you say behind closed doors many politicians acknowledge the need for a United States of Europe but claim that their voters would not support pursuit of this goal and that mistake that was isn't it were no debt no I the opposite is happening you see for example my growing friends what is doing he is putting forward a pro European program he's saying 70 other national level doesn't exist anymore we have to in fact defy law but an exercise to soften and kill European level that's marketable you see the same in Germany you see the same in Spain which I thought I know is the new party that has been created but I'll bet a pro utopian centrist radical party you say the same thing happening in Bowland another Chet's not the main opposition party the reaction against national and populism is already bought you see it in a huge number of new political parties new political politicians may lead to TS old like Mark at all likely Farah who are in fact proposing a radical reform of the European Union as the answer to nationalism and populism just a move on to Rex is the prime minister here treasonous said no deal is better than a bad deal when it comes to bricks and so walk away from the negotiating table rather than settle for something that doesn't work for Britain in her eyes do you believe her I don't know we didn't even start the negotiations so ask me a question that worked that is a starting point no starting point it is very clear she wants to get out of the European Union the single market Customs Union the European Court of Justice and that is what we have said from the side of the European Union OK that's fairly clear but you cannot expect done tool. Cherie pick a number of policies inside European Union say OK we go out of all the policies but these and these and these programs are interesting for us for Britain so there we continue that's not possible but there are leaders within Europe who said that it is possible to have sector by sector deal so cherry picking is on the table isn't a no no no I don't think so no I don't think that will happen though but there are many on the BRICS it side who believe that is in the interest to give the case a bad deal as possible to didn't know other members it's from choosing an excess and you know not allowing Terry taking is one way of giving them a bad deal isn't it but the point is not punishment re Fanshen The point is what is a fair partnership with U.K. Once the U.K. Has left the European Union and I think it's in the interest of both the U.K. And European Union to find such a fair partnership but a fair partnership is not saying oh I go out of the European Union then I take the good parts for me without taking also the necessary obligations that will not be on the table like I've done is that anything positive you can say about Bret's it I was very much against Rex it and I still think it's a bad thing for Britain and certainly also for Europe but OK The decision has been taken so we have to respect the outcome of the referendum and of only positive thing that I can see is that it is a possibility also for the European Union to reform itself for me this exercise is not only a negotiation with Britain about your partnership it's also an exercise and the start of a reform of the European Union that is absolutely necessary Looking back now looking it back now at the path that led to that Rex it vote and the negotiations that took place between the prime minister at the time David Cameron and the E.U. To come back with a more accommodating deal for the U.K.'s membership of the E.U. Do you regret that the E.U. Wasn't more commentating that perhaps the. vote might have being thwarted or avoid it somehow you know sortie 8 let's not because was european union and does whole re friend that was and idea to reste all the unity of the conservative party this to started like that it's you're saying it is an enduring your conservative argument that was our exporters you'll saying ag sacked late and i think we did a good digger sation with the david cameron i take that to proposal was very fair frog from both sides the only problem was that after this agreement was concluded nobody even talked anymore to aggrievement and about the continent of the agreement and the hall referendum became in fact a battle on migration and certainly not on the plays off of britain in the european union it's a body blow their to the business at bricks it i'm what sort of you do you think with there will be and 102030 is time if their eyes are you was who'll know there will be in my but you know e.u. It will be smaller than $28.00 that's obvious because but there's a going out and it will me a more united around a governance of of the single currency we're to european defense union because it will be necessary to organize this s. Also probably other side of the atlantic ocean the all more critical to worths europe so i take it sid enormous opportunity trump at at the same time grex it to to get our act together and to put in place what the founding fathers had already in mind that was a political union at defense union an economic union a fiscal union debt was their idea in the fifty's i tink that this idea of the founding fathers is returning now east now again on the table as the only possible and says to the new world order debt is shape before the moment european parliament's teeth breck's it in a goes into that for hof start you're listening to business daily from the b.b.c. With niemen weight us and i go sour breck's it critics say is a jump into the unknown and some people Take those jumps for the sheer adrenaline and adventure of it people like Christina Franco she's an Arctic explorer who in 2005 when the polar race to the magnetic north pole and has made several solo attempts to reach the true north pole since it's an expensive business and key to getting going is private sector funding so I asked her how does she do it Polar expeditions are extremely costly and I'm on my own but I have a very large team because you have to have a support team you have to have people to fly you out so what you're trying to do is make a find the relevance in what you're doing with local businesses and there's some obvious places to go to so Kit anything that I use anything that undergoes testing in extreme conditions so taking electronics taking pieces of kit to those extreme conditions people will be happy to give you some money to do that where I find that the majority of the bulk of the funding comes from is is larger financial institutions who are looking for a human element to give inspiration to give relevance outside of of the Madonna do every day like for example your previous expeditions who sponsored you who just so I had my last expeditions were sponsored by X. Or I was I think insurance for a big insurance for and they they sponsored a few of my expeditions and people get very excited because it is exciting it's unusual it's strange what you find is that most companies have a certain amount of money that they have to dedicate to a funding by git to P.R. What I'm learning now and where I'm not very good at it because I probably am just a little bit too old and is to understand how to convert to social media so they want to have if they have their products reach out to. Be introduced to a greater variety of different clients they want to via social and they want to do that via social media so that an insurance company wants to reach young people who need to be insured how do they do that because most of the people that are looking for insurance are a little bit older have families already have cars and so they're trying to get their name seen by a new audience and that's what social media does that's where their budget P.R. You're the P.R. Budget will be appropriate to something that is unusual I mean it must be quite competitive there must be hundreds of others who are also taking up expeditions or challenges crossing the Atlantic solo on the moat do you feel that you have to really could be really hard for every single dollar you raise you have you have to compete for every single penny but I don't think that that's different than trying to get an art project funded or a movie funded or or even a business product funded so I think that the rules are the same it's just how you're applying them and what you're doing but did you think it has become more difficult to know following the financial crisis in 2008 people as generous as they have been or I think it is a little bit like saying when you hear older people saying oh it's not like the good old days or whether you know the weather has changed or people used to be nicer I think we always like to think that it was better before but I think it's fine there's there is a lot of money sometimes what happens is that it's in different places and you have to do the work I don't think it changes whatever you're doing you have to do the work you have to do the research you have to read papers you have to troll the internet you have to find the place where what you're doing is relevant to somebody else you can't just assume that because you're doing something remarkable and different from everybody else's day to day life that people should be giving you money you have to make it relevant so just. On the question when you can you raise money from X. Or yes insurance company how is that relevant and so your Polar Express This was when will the last one they sponsor with 2009 in 2010 you didn't want to cross the Arctic Yes I don't know if yes. I was going solo across the Arctic and. What you find also is that ultimately it's your it's private connections it's meeting people I photographed because I work as a photographer as well I photographed the chairman of access and we got talking and he got interested in what I was doing and he saw and recognized a relevance it's a personal connection it's you do find that you have to speak to a lot of people in you know meet a lot of people network and you have to network and find somebody that's inspired by by what you do it's not necessarily obvious but that a lot of the big companies as I say they do have to take care of you know from the outside they look like very large companies but they they are communities and they are trying to also inspire their own people because you know to to think differently because it helps them is it difficult more difficult now or is easier now given what's going on with the environment with the melting of glaciers I had been trying to walk over the Arctic and reach the North Pole and that's no longer possible you are not supported nobody supporting expeditions to the Arctic anymore it's too dangerous for them to land planes to support you while you're out there and so everybody thinks because of the melting ice that's because of the the ice melting and because it belting quicker because it's quite exponential because the moment that you expose any of the ocean the ocean on the Arctic is 14000 feet deep so it's black it's really black so the moment it's a little bit exposed it's 24 hour daylight it's exponential it melts very quickly then. And sooner so that's that's what's happening at the moment and so I'm no longer able to attempt in fact I was the last expedition to attempt a full coastal expedition to that to the North Pole. And everybody always flippantly says you know you're going to have to go back and swim and so that's one party too so I'm training when they are going to swim a kilometer at the North Pole in 2018 and his sponsoring you for that well that's to be regulated Yeah. Arctic explorer or inquire as she calls herself Christina Frank and there's lots of photos of her polar expeditions online can head to her website at Christina Franco dot com.