A massive stimulus package to help the economy withstand the coronavirus pandemic. Its reported to be worth about 1 trillion and could include sending cheques to individual americans, and 50 billion for airlines hard hit by travel bans. Here in the uk, the government said they were on a war time footing and announced unprecented measures with more than £300 billion to help businesses struggling with a drop in trade. There was also help for homeowners who may struggle to make mortgage payments. Former us Vice President joe biden has won the primary votes in florida and illinois in his bid to be the democratic partys nominee to take on donald trump in novembers election. Hes also projected to beat his main rival, vermont senator bernie sanders, in arizona. Its about liz30am. Youre up to date on the headlines. Now on bbc news, hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk. Im stephen sackur. Coronavirus is first and foremost a Global Health crisis, but its impacts go so much further. The economic damage is deep and worldwide, political systems face profound challenges too. Ireland is a telling case study. Last months election left the country without a stable government. Eoin 0 broin is a leading figure in sinn fein, the party that won the most votes, but failed to form a government. Does Political Uncertainty now make ireland especially vulnerable . Eoin 0 broin in dublin, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you very much, stephen. You hoped that by now your party would be forming a government, would be the government in ireland, but it has not worked out that way so you have to respond to what the, in essence, the caretaker government led by leo varadkar is doing. He has initiated a host of emergency measures to respond to coronavirus, do you support him . We are and in fact a number of weeks ago we proposed to the taoiseach that there should be a very strong cross Party Approach to tackling the virus. He accepted that and our regular meetings theres one taking place today
between the taoiseach, the ministerfor health, government advisers and the leaders of the opposition to ensure that whatever our government formation, we have a strong cross party view on this. It is a matter way above Party Politics, to ensure that everything that needs to be done both to reduce the speed at which the virus is spreading but to also ensure that workers, families and businesses get the support they need in coming days and weeks. The extent of the emergency measures that include schools closed and now bars and pubs all being closed, a semi lockdown of the country, what it means is that at the very most generous estimate at least 140,000 irish people are no longer able to go to work. That is extraordinarily damaging to your economy and yet, if we are honest, you have fewer than 200 cases of coronavirus. Some in your countrymay feel it is an overreaction. I have to say i have not heard anyone say it is an overreaction. The crucial thing is that this is a Global Pandemic and we must take advice from global leaders, particularly the World Health Organization. If you listen to their Daily Press Conferences, as well as the Daily Press Conferences of our own chief medical officer, they say speed is of the essence. The quicker we reduce the rate this disease spreads, the better able you are to get a grip on it. Crucially, ensure your Health Services are not overwhelmed and i must say the type of action we have seen the Irish Government take last week and, again, the important measures to support those whove temporarily lost theirjobs and businesses that must close and other aspects of the economy, i think it is a sensible and prudent thing to do and i think because of that approach we should see a far slower rate of infection and, crucially, it will save lives and that is the most important thing any government should focus on in this crisis. Talking about the economy now. How worried are you . Your party is committed to a major boost to public spending and yet what we now see as an Irish Economy that will suffer a major knockback as a result of all the responses to coronavirus. It calls into question everything about irelands economy
and your economic policies going forward. Firstly, all economies, notjust the irish but the uk economy will be affected by this Global Pandemic and we all have to respond appropriately. What i will say is that if we are to have learned any lessons of the last recession it is precisely at a moment of Economic Uncertainty that the government needs to step up to the plate and invest and support the economy and frontline public services. We need to take a strong cross Party Approach to tackling the pandemic, as i said, but we also must be involved in negotiations around a programme for a government for change that would allow us to improve the quality of our health care and tackle the housing crisis and ensure that small and medium sized businesses have the support they need. Now is the time to give them that support and if we approach this in the right, way not only will we be able to overcome
the worst aspects of the virus, but also ensure our economy in the future is stronger and more robust and people have a better quality of life and public service. I will get back to your agenda for governance and discuss with you whether it will ever be relevant. Lets stick right now to the Coronavirus Crisis a little longer. You tell me and you have told me twice already in this interview, that you are actively engaged in National Discussion with leo varadkar and his team on the response, but i am puzzled because leo varadkar and all of his party and the other main historical dominant party in ireland, this is fine gael and fianna fail, they have both said they will not talk to you about anything political because they do not regard you as part of irish politics mainstream. Firstly, as you and i are talking in this interview, a meeting is taking place in one of the government buildings. Micheal martin is at it, Mary Mcdonald is at it. Leo varadkar is at it. They are the three leaders of the three largest parties. And they are working their way through the governments response to the coronavirus. Those talks are happening and we are a central part of them. We would like to see them deepen. We think the government ministers should meet on a regular basis with opposition spokespeople as well as senior government ministers to deal with the legislative working of this virus, we will have emergency legislation come through later this week. And also the day to day policy responses. Those talks are happening and we are a central part of them and at a time of National Emergency like this, the responsible thing for all political leaders to do is to put Party Politics to one side and Work Together to tackle the Serious Health crisis that we face. Interesting you make a point about putting politics to one side. What do you make of the sinn fein politician in Northern Ireland, john 0dowd, who made a very political point the other day because he was, as many of us have done, noting the great difference
in the Emergency Response in the republic of ireland from Northern Ireland so you cross the border and on one side, the southside you have schools closed and pubs and bars closed but in Northern Ireland you have none of that. He said and this is a quote, the uk government is using everyone of us in Northern Ireland in some form of twisted medical experiment. Did you approve of that language . Is that what you and sinn fein in dublin also think . I would say it is almost what everyone on the island of ireland currently thinks. It does seem to be a strange case of british exceptionalism here where the entire world is following the advice of the World Health Organization with one exception being westminster and boris johnson. Unfortunately the dup take a similar response. It makes absolutly no sense to have schools on the south and west of the border of ireland closed and businesses closed and people accepting fully and forthrightly the World Health Organization advice and just a few steps, let a lone a few yards across the border, a very different situation taking place. We have teachers who cross
the border, pupils who cross the border. 30,000 people a day across the border for all aspects of their life and we need a single approach to the island of ireland to ensure we slow down the spread of the disease and ensure our vulnerable sections of society, be they older people or those with underlying medical conditions are not put at risk because of reckless behaviour. He is absolutely right. Ww need a single approach on the island of ireland. So in one breath you say lets not be political but in the next you are characterising to me the uk as a sort of health risk for an irish citizen. What i am saying is that the World Health Organization are the leading experts in this field and we should all be following their advice and it does seem to many of us on this side of the irish sea as strange that the only government on the european continent and within the european area who is not following that advice
rigorously is the uk government in westminster. Lets both of us hope that the spread of coronavirus in ireland can be limited and hope for the best on that. Lets now dig a little deeper into the political situation in your country right now. Back in february you won the most votes in the irish collection although not quite the most seats because of the way the representation system works, but you have tried and failed to form a government. Is that effort of yours on the part of sinn fein to form a government led by mary lou mcdonald, is it formally and finally over . No and for those of us who have had coalitions for decades, sometimes forming a coalition can take a little longer than people in britain may appreciate we are still involved in direct negotiations with other Political Parties, greens, the social democrats, some progressive independent left wing tds and by trying to put
together what that government for change would look like. That has been made difficult with the position of both fianna fail and fine gael not to talk to sinn fein about government formation. But a week is a long time in politics and while fianna fail may Say Something this week, they may Say Something else next week. Our focus is very, very clear. There is a huge popular expectation after a significant electoral shift in february for a different kind of government to do policy completely differently and we are focused on bringing that about. It seems that the Coronavirus Crisis has overtaken the political perspective, because i have the feeling now that reading between the lines of what senior officials in both the historical big parties, fine gael and fianna fail, what they say is that both of them are saying ireland is now facing a Massive National healthcare emergency and in a context like this, we must Work Together, us parties, to form a grand coalition, a government of national unity. That seems to be the way politics is going. Firstly, fine gael and fianna fail combined do not have the numbers and they will have to engage with other Political Parties. They are already talking to the greens so they can do that. They are already talking to the greens. Interestingly, the greens came out last week quite critical of the way in which they felt that fianna fail in particular was taking the green party for granted and indicated clearly that they are not to be used by fianna fail and fine gael. The Crucial Point is this most Political Parties, including ourselves, are still involved in coalition negotiations. I understand fianna fail and fine gael are meeting on wednesday this week, a meeting with the green party on fridayjust gone, and the social democrats later this week. So we are very focused. In february the people of ireland voted for real change. Fundamental social, economic political and constitutional change. The Political Parties, the Political Parties that significantly increased their seats and votes were sinn fein, the social democrats and the green party,
the public are calling us the parties of change, and we are spending a huge amount of time both this weekend and into the coming weeks trying to form a government that will do exactly what the electorate asked us to do and deliver a completely different kind of economy, society, one that works for workers and families. But to be honest, it is more likely that fianna fail and fine gael will be able to achieve a grand Coalition Government than it is that you could cobble together an alternative government for change and in the concept of a National Emergency, isnt it better to just be honest, recognise that and get on with fianna fail and fine gael finding a way to govern . Firstly, i did not vote for either of those parties, nor did 24 of the electorate. I voted for sinn fein. But what is interesting is if you look at the results
of the election, fianna fail lost a significant number of votes and fine gael lost a significant numbers of votes and seats. They do not have a popular mandate to govern and they certainly do not have a popular mandate for change. The big issues that dominated the Election Campaign were the failure of the outgoing government to secure Affordable Accommodation for workers, adequate healthcare and childcare, the kind of issues that when we get to the other side of coronavirus will still be with us. So what am i doing and what is our negotiating Team Involved in . We are trying to do what the electorate asked us to do and form a government for change. And i say this clearly, if fianna fail and fine gael cobble together some kind of unstable government with a few gene pool independents, that will not be the sort of change that the electorate called for. I also have to think you have to say that they would be an unstable government and the kind of proposition we are putting forward to the parties is more sensible and credible and more stable and, crucially, more likely to deliver for workers and families who desperately need a break. Well, i dont think anyone
would doubt that uncertainty and instability are what characterise irish politics today. The question is how to get beyond that. And given that youre not really backing down on your right to form a government, and nobody can really see a way in which you could form a government, the uncertainty will continue. And i would therefore suggest maybe the only thing that all of you politicians in ireland can do is accept the need for an urgent second election. What do you think about that . Well, first of all, we dont want a second election, and nor do the electorate. They have made that very, very clear to us. But let me also say this. You are overplaying the level of instability. As i said, as were doing this interview, all of the Political Parties who are in government buildings are working together to try to find a way to tackle the coronavirus. The business of forming a Coalition Takes a little bit of time. That is our experience. And in fact, after the 2016 election, it took 71 days. So were in a position where all of the Political Parties, with their mandates,
are seeking to form a government. What sinn fein is saying is were going to do what the electorate has asked us to do and try and form a stable, long Term Government that can deliver on the really important issues that fine gael and fianna fail have only not delivered on in recent years, but also historically. I have never seen so much hope, so much expectation that things can really start to change in our economy and society, and sinn fein certainly isnt going to let our voters down. We can Work Together on a cross party basis to deal with the coronavirus. To step up to the plate, form a Coalition Government but separately, Political Parties who have a mandate for change need to step up to the plate, form a Coalition Government and transform our economy and society in the way people expect us to do. It is interesting you talk about that appetite for change, and i dont think anybody looking at the election would doubt sinn fein did reach out in a successful way to a lot of particularly young people on issues that are very close to your heart, like housing, and getting much more Affordable Housing available for young irish people. I get that. But surely its time for you to reflect on why, in a funny sort of way,
you didnt do even better. Because yes, you got 24. 5 of the vote, but it wasnt enough to make you the Natural Party of government. So maybe you should actually be reflecting on what is still blocking sinn feins path to being the true party of governme