Now, we respect the electorate, and we respect the result of the referendum thats the direction in which our country is currently heading, but i think youd be disappointed in us or indeed any politician who changed their principles. Much as i disagree with people like bill cash and nigel farage and so on, i do kind of respect them, after the referendum in the 19705, for sticking to what they believe. As a country, we can come together, but you also need somebody whos prepared to say a different direction as possible. And in the end, it kind of doesnt matter whether you voted leave or remain lastjune. What the Liberal Democrats offer you is the chance to be sovereign, to have the final say on the final deal. And it does matter, because of course theresa may has made choices, and it was not inevitable that we would choose to be outside the Single Market, ripping up our Free Trade Deal with europe. Thats a choice she has made. Jeremy corbyn and ukip, of course, backed her in that. We say thats a choice, and if its a choice that shes making, surely the british people should have the final say, not the politicians. You always speak about an extreme brexit. Whats extreme about having control of our own borders . Well, i take the view that what our government is choosing is a direction that was not necessarily implicit in the referendum last year so. But whats extreme about having control of our own borders . Theresa may made a choice injune sorry, in january to take us out of the Single Market, that is to rip up our Free Trade Deal with europe, where half of our goods are exported to, and which massively impacts upon our jobs. She hasnt ripped it up she wants a different free trade arrangement. Well, shes basically not bid to remain in the Free Trade Deal that we have, and that is fundamental. As you know, the Single Market is more than a Free Trade Deal. It is indeed. The Single Market involves Free Movement of people, it involves jurisdiction by the European Court ofjustice, and a common rule book if we agree to all that, in what way would we have left the European Union . So youre absolutely dead right to say that its more than just a Free Trade Deal, its more than just the absence of tariffs. Its all the nontariff obstructions as well. Let me just tell you why this really matters so. Well, id like you to tell me why, if we agree to all that, we would still, in effect, have left the European Union. Andrew, you asked me about what other than a Free Trade Deal were talking about here. Lets remember why those nontariff and indeed Tariff Barriers really matter to our business, lets go back to 2001. No, mr farron, thats not what im asking you. Well, let me finish this point. Its an important question, and id like you to address my question, which is that if we remain members of the Single Market, wed be subject to the European Court, we would need to agree to Free Movement of people, we would have no control over our borders, so therefore in what way. Youre making lots of assumptions here. In what way would we have left the European Union . Lets answer that question, then ill go back to your first one. Well, that was my first one. The important thing is this. We are currently in a Situation Negotiating our exit and a new deal, absolutely essential that we have a new deal Going Forward with europe, to protectjobs, to keep prices down in the supermarket, to protect the future for our children. Now, if theresa may has the courage of her convictions and is willing to go and fight for a strong deal in europe, what you dont do at the beginning is accept that you cant get the best deal. And the best deal is surely one that leaves us with that Free Trade Deal and leaves us in the Single Market. Shall i give you one more chance to answer the question . Which is that if we remain under the European Courts jurisdiction, if we are subject to Free Movement of peoples, if we are subject to laws and regulations made in brussels, in what way will we have left the European Union . Well, for example, over the last 20 years, nigel farage and others have toured the country telling us, lets be more like norway. What are norway . In the Single Market, out of the European Union. All i am saying to you. Norway is subject to Free Movement its subject, in effect, to the European Court. All im saying to you is that different options are available. All right. And the Prime Minister has made that extreme choice, and heres why it does matter i want to just get to this point, because you asked me why this matters. Lets go back to 2001, during another general election, during the foot and mouth crisis. Now, you will remember that the french could not exclude british exports of beef and lamb to france quickly enough because they had the excuse of that disease. They will not wait a second to bring in similar tariffs and barriers if were outside the Single Market. And that is why, accepting even if we leave the European Union, fighting for britains place in our Free Trade Deal that backs british jobs and keeps prices low is fundamental. And if you are a patriot and you are fighting britains corner in europe, you dont as sadly theresa may has done give up on the most important aspects of those negotiations. And im going to give up on trying to get an answer to my question. I think ive given you at least one. You also describe yourself, and i think you kind of want it both ways here, as a bit of a eurosceptic. Can you think of any other eurosceptics who would launch their Manifesto Standing on an eu flag . Well, when you talk about how you stand against or alongside those institutions. Youre not a eurosceptic. A local council, the government, an assembly or indeed europe, you should be, as a liberal, always prepared to be critical of those who hold power. Thats not what euroscepticism means. Well, its important. You are no eurosceptic, mr farron, are you . Its not honest to say that to the british people. Im passionate about the european ideal, i am often critical of things the commission does, just as im critical of things the British Government does. You also describe yourself in one of your leaflets as remoaner of the year so youre a Eurosceptic Remoaner how does that work out . well, if people, you know, cast insults at you, its quite good to own them if you possibly can im sure you do it from time to time. Youre just trying to have it both ways, arent you . You make an interesting point there about use of terminology. You see, i do respect the outcome of the referendum, and i nevertheless feel a sense of real concern that in this country, if you stand by your principles, if you question whether theresa may is making the right choices, and Jeremy Corbyn of course a factor in that, then you are dismissed as a saboteur or a remoaner. No, i accept the result. Hold on, thats the fourth time youve said that. I would suggest to you that you dont accept the result, you are fighting Tooth And Nail to undo the result, arent you . You dont accept the result. To give the british people the final say. Andrew, let me make this point, let me make this point, and that is there something chilling about our democracy if people who think differently to the government are somehow silenced. I think its right that that positive vision of britain, working across this continent that we are part of, should be put forward. Nobody wants to silence you, mr farron what were trying to do is get some more honesty. Now, if we had this second referendum, you would campaign for us to come back in, correct . There can be nothing more honest than leading a party supporting britains place in europe, as we have since 1955. In a second referendum, you would campaign to overturn the decision we took last year, wouldnt you . So we had a referendum last year. No, i know that, whats the answer . Well, lets talk about what the referendum would be. Just tell us you would campaign for us to remain in. Andrew, let me finish, let me finish, youve asked a really good question, and it deserves an answer, so here it comes. Thats what im hoping for. And the answer is simply this we are going to have a deal negotiated between brussels and our government over the next. Lets say 12 18 months, we will drop out of the European Union on the 1st of april 2019. Now, it seems to me that, having voted democratically for departure lastjune, the british people should have the final say on destination. And you would tell them to vote to remain. And youre going to let me finish my question. Im trying to get you to the point here is the point, and it is this, that we have the right surely, as the british people to have the final say. If you bought a house. Mr farron, im not arguing with this. Look, let me just get to the point, because frankly you sound to me like youre filibustering, and i want you to address this simple point. Youre doing more talking than i am and. Im trying to get you to answer the question is simple, mr farron. Thats exactly what im doing, andrew. Let me try to politely put it again in the second referendum. Im politely answering it. Will you campaign to remain in the European Union . Im politely answering it. Whats the answer . When the deal is put to the british people, the british people have the right to either accept that deal, and in that case we leave the European Union on the 1st of april 2019, or to reject it and remain. Now, ill be very clear with you, as i have been over this last 12 months i cannot see any chance of us getting a better deal than the one we have now. So you will campaign to reject any deal. In a democracy, its right to stand by your principles, isnt it . So can you just answer my question . Ijust have, ijust have two or three times. In any referendum campaign, you will campaign to reject any deal, correct . Well, lets look at the deal, but i dont imagine any of us can imagine a deal that is better than the one weve got now. So youll campaign to remain. The deal weve got now is membership of the European Union. The deal we have now is, most fundamentally, of the Single Market. And then we have the opt outs, we have the fact that we have the rebate, we have exemption from schengen, we dont have. We know all that, mr farron. Can we just finally try and get some clarity on this . Because as you know. I think ive been really clear. Theres nothing worse than politicians not answering questions, so can you just be clear that. No, you cant keep on talking over me. How this works is i ask questions and you try to answer them. But i think the problem is. No, youre doing it again, mr farron, please hold on, no, mr farron. When you keep talking, i cant answer. Mr farron, youre not in last nights debate, youre in a one on one. When you keep talking, i cant answer. Mr farron, will you please be quiet and listen to my question . Do you accept that when you keep talking. My question is quite simple. When you keep talking, i cant answer . Mr farron, youre not answering let me try it one more time. Mr farron, let me try it one more time, youre not going to heckle me out of this i will ask my question. Well, dont talk over me. I will ask you my question in the second referendum. 0n the first referendum on the deal. You will campaign. Youre doing it again. Im correcting a wrong question. You will campaign to reject any deal that mrs may does . I will campaign in that referendum on the basis of whats best for britain. My view is i cannot see how theresa may will be able to get a deal better than the one we currently have which i told you about five minutes ago. Lets move on to your manifesto and see if we can do better there with clarity. Last weeks Terrorist Atrocity in manchester underlined the unprecedented threat facing this country. Why, then, do you want, in your words, to roll back the Surveillance Powers of the Security Services . Well, the Security Services keep us all safe, and as somebody who was in manchester the tuesday, the night after the bomb, somebody who has four kids, all of whom had friends who were either at or close to the gig that night, it brings home to you how much. So why do you want to roll back the Surveillance Powers . The police and Security Services do to keep us safe. One of the things that is really critical is this as the police seek to keep us safe, what they need are resources. Now, the Security Services have powers, so for example we have the exclusion orders, and weve had those since the coalition days the Liberal Democrats were fundamental in making sure that we have those, and the governments used them once in two years. What i hear from the Security Services is that they have the powers that they need what they need are the resources to make use of them. But you want to take powers away. And so what we need to make sure is that we dont have knee jerk responses to the kind of outrage. But you want to take powers away why . Do i want to protect the privacy of individuals . Yes, of course. When you see terrorists seeking to undermine our freedoms, our liberty, our very way of life, it is very important that we dont allow politicians the easy answer of knee jerk responses that give away those liberties and freedoms. But you want further to tie the hands of the Security Services. Thats not true. Well, youre against restricting encryption. So we know that encryption keeps peoples Bank Accounts and details and privacy safe, and its about making sure that we are smart in catching the terrorists. And its getting the basic things right. You know, dont you, cos you read it yourself, in the last few days its emerged that the murderer of those 22 innocent people in manchester last monday was reported, flagged up, not once but five times from the community that he came from, and that tells you that weve got potentially ample powers, not ample resources, in order to pursue those who seek to do us harm. But you want to restrict the ability of the Security Services to deal with these encrypted apps which is what the terrorists use, dont you . We dont want to allow our politicians to go off down a rabbit hole to do things that wont keep us safe. This is not the politicians, this is the Security Services, who want to access these apps. The Security Services are very clear what they want is the resources to be able to catch those people. You dont, for example, at the moment, we have a european database, that by the way theresa may is planning to take us out of, that has 16 notifications every second of every minute of every hour of every day. There is lots of intelligence out there, what there arent are the people to do the job of sifting it and following it up. It would be wrong. The Security Services want to use the encryption and you dont want to give them the powers. The Security Services certainly think its wrong to take us out of that european database. That is another issue, i ask you a question and you answer a different one. I dont think thats true. I think the fact is that those people who murdered 22 innocent people and injured so many more and caused such fear and panic, these people they do it for a reason. It is because they hate us. They hate our neighbours as well. I understand all that. Im trying to find out what your Security Policy is. Well, start with £300 million extra for our police services. You want to be able to notify innocent people. Hold on i want to ask you a question. Well, i was answering the previous one. Actually, you werent. Actually, i was. You want to notify innocent people who have been placed under targeted surveillance. How would that work . So without a doubt what we need to do is take advantage of the fact that Intelligence Services have the ability under law now to bug peoples phones, to keep people under surveillance. You dont tell them whilst youre doing it. You let them know once an investigation is completed if they have been proven innocent. That is standard. You said you want to notify innocent people who have been under targeted surveillance. Ive just explained it to you. Why youd do that . 0nce somebodys been declared and found innocent, you let them know. That is standard. Alex carlile. I cant think of any person who would think that is wrong. Alex carlile, the independent reviewer of terrorist legislation, independent reviewer, former lib dem, he says the idea is potty. So it seems t