From our studios in new york, this is charlie rose. Charlie Tshering Tobgay is here. He is the Prime Minister of bhutan. He led bhutans first Opposition Party. He is working tuesday or his country through its transition to democracy. It is one of the leading countries in environmental conservation. 60 of National Forest are protected. It is being challenged to find a balance between the pursuit of happiness and Economic Growth. I am pleased to have the Prime Minister here at this table for the first time. The next time will be in bhutan. Welcome. Prime minister tobgay thank you. Charlie for many people it has an image. For some it is a shangrila. It is much different than that. Prime minister tobgay it is a kind of shangrila. It is in the mountains. It is tucked away in the himalayas. But the reality is we are not just one big monastery. We are people. The country, the beauty of our country is that it rises very quickly all the way to 7500 meters above sea level in a span of time. Charlie 800,000. Prime minister tobgay 750,000. Eight football stadiums. [laughter] it is spread throughout the country. Our country is divided by tall mountains, narrow valleys. We do have problems getting from place to place. The country itself is 38,000 square kilometers. A little bigger than maryland. Charlie most people are buddhist. Prime minister tobgay most vajrayana buddhism, and we are the last surviving vajrayana buddhism country in the world. Charlie what does that mean . Prime minister tobgay there are different strains of buddhism. There were different kingdoms in the himalayas practicing vajrayana buddhism, tibetan buddhism. We are the last surviving nation whose state religion is vajrayana buddhism. Charlie feudal until 1953 . Prime minister tobgay yes. Charlie the first roads around 1962. Prime minister tobgay 1961 we started constructing our first motor road. My mother worked on that road. Charlie wow. Prime minister tobgay the entire country had to come together. Now we have 750,000 people. Our entire population had to come and work on the road. My mother was one of them. Charlie and your dad was a soldier. You were educated in the united states. Prime minister tobgay i did my high school in bhutan. I won a scholarship to study engineering. I wrote to the best 10 engineering colleges, and the university of pittsburgh. I have not regretted it. Charlie yes. Prime minister tobgay i returned later to cambridge, massachusetts. Charlie then you went back. Prime minister tobgay i went back after my college, my engineering degree. I studied mechanical engineering. Most of us, after college, regardless of where we studied we have always gone back. I joined the Civil Service. Charlie working in education. Prime minister tobgay focusing on vocational training, and then i got a degree in public administration. Charlie then you felt the lure of politics. Prime minister tobgay i didnt feel it. Nobody in bhutan felt the lore of politics. [laughter] we are in transition. We are a full democracy with democratic institutions. We are a vibrant democracy. The transition took place in the 30 years leading up to 2008 when democracy was established. Charlie how was that . Prime minister tobgay our false king, very gradually he was training us in the principles of democracy, and governance. He devolved power and authority from the throne to the people step, gradually. In 2005 we heard about democracy. 2006 we knew he was serious. By 2007, 2006 he had abdicated in favor of his son, the king now. The entire country was unhappy. Charlie why did he do this . Who educated him, who informed them, who influenced him to create a Constitutional Monarchy . Prime minister tobgay what he told our people repeatedly is that no one person can be guaranteed to be good for a country. For the long term interest of the people we have to accept democracy. We really didnt want democracy. I didnt want democracy. Our country was doing well. We had social progress delivered growth. Environment was pristine. Our culture was vibrant. We had opportunities to take part in the democratic process. We have the rule of law. Everything was optimistic. We were hopeful. He insisted we have to have democracy, so people were against that idea. He said i am serious. We have to have democracy, and for those of you who feel that you can serve in that capacity please step forward. That was when, february 2 007, i resigned from my job in Civil Service and entered politics, not because i felt the draw of politics but the sense of service. Charlie a sense of service. You went from being a Civil Servant to being a political player. Prime minister tobgay yes. There was a transition from being a Civil Servant to being someone who is lost. No idea of politics. Who had been in harvard a few years before, but studying public administration. It didnt occur to me that i should study fundraising and campaign organization, and Political Party organization. There were many months i was absolutely clueless on how to go about my job. Charlie how money members and the Opposition Party . Prime minister tobgay we got a walloping. [laughter] Prime Minister tobgay the National Assembly has 47 members and we ended up with 2. I was met Opposition Leader by my party, because i joined the party first. [laughter] we spent five years in opposition. The ruling party had 45 members. Charlie talk about the 2013 election, and the royal family. A lot of them, the princess, the sister of the president king she went to stanford and harvard. A lot of people have gotten western educations and come back, whether it is the royal family or people like you, because they love the place. Prime minister tobgay we love our country. The sacrifices that our parents have made for our country, and all of us are very aware of the sacrifices our king have made for our country. Our kings dont have any property in their name. They have dedicated their lives for the service of the country and their people. Our fourth king became king when he was 16 years old in 1972. He wanted to develop the people. He wanted to have an economy going again. He refused to compromise the integrity of our environment and refuse to cut the forest and mine minerals. Charlie 70 of the country is forest. It has to be more than 65 . Prime minister tobgay the constitution requires 61 forest. Charlie you have clean air. Prime minister tobgay it is pristine forest. A lot of it is pristine. More importantly, much of the forest, all of it ranges very quickly from dense, hot, humid subtropical jungles through cool temperate forest, all the way to pastures, all this happens within a short distance, and we have very clean air. Charlie conservation is an important part of what you believe in. He will talk about that. When things are changing there primarily the Gross Domestic Product. Almost 2 billion. Prime minister tobgay 1. 7 billion. Charlie the principle is hydroelectric power. Prime minister tobgay there are 500 billionaires in america. Charlie and your Gross Domestic Product is 1. 7. Prime minister tobgay but we dont feel poor. Our children are given Free Education. Good colleges. Those make it to college are given free college education. They have to work hard. We have free health care. Free consultations. Economically we can do more. So far so good. However, we have increasing unemployment. Charlie you talk about unemployment, corruption, you have modern problems. Prime minister tobgay yes. It is not shangrila. Charlie but when you campaigned, you made small promises. Clear, small promises. Yes, gross happiness is a good idea. That is the standard, and it is something about our culture, but we have to be real and look at our problems, and we have to work hard, and create a place where others want to, and invest for our own economic future. Prime minister tobgay Gross National happiness is a Development Philosophy articulated by our kings. Our fourth king has said it is more important than Gross National product, what you said during your introduction. Our current king says it is development of values. Gross National Happiness is carefully balancing material growth, which is important, this is important, but balancing Economic Growth with inclusiveness, social, all within the frame of good governance, that takes hard work. Charlie globalization is a good thing. Prime minister tobgay essential. And if used well, good. Charlie how will you change . Prime minister tobgay how will i change my country . My job is to serve my country. Charlie problems like unemployment, like corruption. Problems like these shortage. Your job is to change those things. Change poverty. Lets get things in perspective. Unemployment rate is 2. 6 . Our problem is youth unemployment. Youth unemployment. We need to create jobs, have industries, investment to create jobs for them. While this is a problem, i acknowledge it is a problem, i dont want to see a single bhutanese boy or girl unemployed, but we have to be deliberate in the jobs we create. Corruption is not a problem more than it is a risk. Charlie you are saying not that it is they are, that it could be there. Prime minister tobgay it is they are, but not at levels most people elsewhere experience. And international corruption, we are ranked number 30, and we can do better than that. We should climb up the ladder. It isnt really a problem. It is potentially a problem that will keep the poor or and perpetuate debt and income. Charlie where are you on the perception of happiness . Prime minister tobgay im not sure. Bhutan is it measured internationally and happiness. We have done our own surveys in 2010. We surveyed 7500 people and did a comprehensive survey. Charlie what did you find . Prime minister tobgay on a scale of 01, we ranked. 743. Not too bad. Charlie you were saying we have to work hard. To say that to them you must be suggesting they have not worked hard enough. That they may have become complacent. Prime minister tobgay yes. We cant take things for granted. Our economy is small. We have been given everything. Health, education, infrastructure, social security, our culture, our environment and you mentioned conservation we have to work to keep our culture vibrant. We have to work hard to ensure our environment is protected. We have to work hard to ensure that our future generations enjoy Free Education and free health care, and that we have an economy that can support this. Charlie where would you act to see your country in 10 years . Prime minister tobgay selfreliant, economically selfreliant, selfreliant in the manner that it is our economy is green and sustainable. Charlie you are Carbon Neutral now. Prime minister tobgay we are carbon negative. [laughter] Prime Minister tobgay by some estimates we sequester Something Like 6. 3 million tons of carbon every year. We generate only 1. 5 million tons of carbon every year. The carbon we generate is from farming. Most is from agriculture. Charlie that is what you generate the carbon. Prime minister tobgay most of it. Charlie what can you do about the poverty . Prime minister tobgay create jobs, most poverty is in the rural areas. Improve agriculture. Improve agricultural productivity. We are trying to promote natural farming, organic farming so so farmers came improve their income. In our urban areas young boys and girls who have completed colleges, we have to get them good jobs. Charlie what is the program you have with the World Wildlife fund. What is that . Prime minister tobgay 72 of our country, as you know, is under forest cover. The constitution requires 60 . We will be Carbon Neutral for all time to come. More than half of our country is protected as national parks, wildlife sanctuaries. The beauty of bhutan is that these protected areas are interconnected with biological corridors. Charlie what is that . Prime minister tobgay undisturbed tracts of land were animals and birds can migrate and go from park to park rather than be isolated in one area. When we say more than half of our country is protected animals can traverse the entire length and bredth of our country. On hundred meters above sea level in the jungles, tigers spotted at 4200 meters above sea level. Royal bengal tigers. Our camera traps have spotted tigers with cubs. Now we need to protect this. We have 700 species of birds. In this small country. One of them, the white bellied heron, there is only about 150 in the world. I dont know whether a proper account has been done. There are only 29. We have to protect our ecological system. It is rich, it is pristine, but we have to protect it. The government spends 3 million per year for Park Management but that is not enough. Charlie this ought to be an attractive thing to create, to have a world like this that is green, that has these advantages. For visitors to come to. Prime minister tobgay it is not for visitors. That is the bonus. We have to our kings have given us a very rich environment. We have to enjoy this environment, and we must do our part to nurture it and handed over to the future generations not just for our future generations, that for the world. This is a natural asset that belongs to the world. We have competing demands. We mentioned employment, our economy, schools, hospitals. The government is spending 3 million a year to manage the parks. We need more, Something Like 10 million. In five years, revenues from other parts of the economy will be able to raise enough revenue to finance the management of our parks. We need a transition fund. It creates that transition. We are raising money to allow us access to funds, to spend during the first two years, in addition to 3 million we have committed. As the transition fund, as we deplete the fund and invested, the government will increase our investment, and we will take over. This is a project, a classic wall street financing model. A project financed for perpetuity. Charlie the first visit the Prime Minister made was to you. To your country. Prime minister tobgay barely three weeks after his swearingin. Charlie india has shown great interest and has given you funds to support hydroelectric power. What else is the benefits of that relationship . Prime minister tobgay india is our immediate neighbor. We are extremely close. Our friendship is based on trust, understanding cooperation. Our relations with india transcends political parties. Our leaders, and our kings. They have been very generous. A lot of development, they provide development systems. Economically they are the Main Investors in the hydropower projects. We have a role model relationship politically. In terms of economic cooperation, the centerpiece is hydropower. We invest together to build our power stations. Hydropower is the cleanest because it is not a dam. India buys all of our excess power. Charlie what about china . Prime minister tobgay china is our neighbor. We have good relations. Charlie not as good as india. Prime minister tobgay not as deep. We have a border that has not been finalized with china. Charlie you have some disputes there dont you . Prime minister tobgay we are discussing the border and we need to finalize the border. [laughter] charlie how is that going . Prime minister tobgay weve had 22 rounds of discussions. I think there are serious discussions. Charlie because of the royal family as well as you, receive your education here in part, do you feel kinship with america . Prime minister tobgay yes. [laughter] charlie what is the relationship like . [laughter] Prime Minister tobgay from hotdogs to baseball and football. Two friends. And people like you, i have seen so many of your shows. Charlie thank you. Prime minister tobgay many of my professors, some of my best friends are from america. Charlie most Prime Ministers who come here dont challenge the president to play basketball. [laughter] he is bigger than you are. Prime minister tobgay he hasnt taken that my challenge. [laughter] i must clarify. Charlie which part . Prime minister tobgay the basketball part. Charlie you didnt challenge him, you would like to play with him oneonone . Prime minister tobgay i didnt play a lot of sports at school. I did play a little basketball. I enjoyed it. Charlie the nba. How long will you be the Prime Minister . Prime minister tobgay i have 3. 5 years to go. Charlie is that it . Is there a term limit . Prime minister tobgay i can be Prime Minister for two terms but you have to run. Charlie this will run through four or five years . Five years. Then you can run for reelection. 2023. Right, so you will run for another term . Do you love it . Prime minister tobgay i will campaign. Charlie and hope you get elected. Prime minister tobgay do i love it . Service is a fantastic thing. It is a fantastic job. Charlie does that come from your religion . Does that come from your parents . Does it come from the culture . Prime minister tobgay it comes from the culture, religion, our community. It comes from my kings. This is why most of us wear a badge of our kings. I wear it as a reminder. Charlie people love their kings. Prime minister tobgay we love our kings. I wear thats as a reminder. Every decision i take, i remind myself, is this the best decision . All of my decisions cant be correct. I asked myself, is it the best decision for my country and my people . Charlie and will my king admire what i do . Prime minister tobgay he is a conscience. Charlie a conscience. The princess is involved with the Royal Institute of legality . Prime minister tobgay law. Charlie what you hope to accomplish on this visit . Prime minister tobgay my priority has been conservation. I have been preoccupied by stabilizing the economy, looking at how we can deep