Here in new york, amy chozick at the new york times. I am pleased to have them here as we talk about the democratic race. What is going on . How do we evaluate the sanders surge . Amy the clinton people have said they expected poles to narrow but you have seen a jarring strategic change. She went from barely mentioning Bernie Sanders to hitting him hard. Every signal is they are nervous. They could lose iowa and New Hampshire and that could send a Ripple Effect of losing donors and having to scramble. She could still capture the nomination but they are bracing for that. Charlie does it make her up amy there are a couple of schools of thought for the establishment would stick with her. I dont think people necessarily think they would get behind Bernie Sanders the way they did with barack obama. Guest the thing would look for, the backtoback defeats in iowa and New Hampshire. There is a large africanamerican vote that is typically loyal to her but defeats and ill and New Hampshire would be troubling for her. It could entice other candidates or politicians to think about the race and could erode the idea that she is the inevitable front runner. Charlie does that include joe biden . Guest i dont think you can rule it out. He regrets having not gotten in. He seems less than enthusiastic about her candidacy. Its not good but she has a counter argument she can make. New hampshire is next door to vermont. Sander was supposed to win anyway. Iowa is the fifth whitest state in the country and it has a caucus system that is not representative of the larger electorate. She has nevada, a substantial latino population where she is looking strong and South Carolina where she will be hard for Bernie Sanders. I understand there will be a big momentum shift. You cant think of her race in isolation. If donald trump wins any of those first two primaries that changes the fundamental psychology of the average democratic voter and feeds and her argument she is the only one with the strength to fight those guys. I think she will be weekend but she could survive losing both. Charlie is donald trump a powerful threat . It makes even deeper feel the need to have a strong democratic candidate . The same disenchantment with washington politics fueling the donald trump rise is in some sense on the democratic side behind the Bernie Sanders bounce we have seen. Hillary look like she have the nomination sewn up. The strong debate performance. She did very well. The senior democratic electorate, they dont want to just ratify the candidacy. They want to see a contest. They like Bernie Sanders message. Clinton seems like a mainstream figure that message may not fit the zeitgeist at this moment. Charlie too close to wall street. Guest bought and paid for by wall street is what some suggest. Charlie is there generally a sense the Democratic Party shifting left . Not only in the politics on the campaign trail but in terms of how the president expresses himself . Iowa is insurgent candidacy. We have seen the in many elections. The party has shifted to the left and clinton was adjusting her positions as such. I think she needed to sure up union support, to close out joe biden. Charlie and wrap up Elizabeth Warren. Exactly. You can see the Elizabeth Warren wing of the party. The party has moved to the left of where barack obama is on some issues. You look at the transpacific partnership. Charlie you think it is unlikely no matter how well bernie does that she has a firewall and forget all this talk. We are looking for a story. Guest i dont think we are just looking for a story. First and foremost she has never been a good candidate. Were seeing that again. Iowa, i have gone to events. He has a really simple understandable kitsch. Hers gets longer and longer. She throws another program on the pile. It is a crazy one our quilt of different programs. You have people nodding off in the audience. She doesnt have a clear message. But she does have this. The main thrust of the party in 2012, it really represented latinos and africanamericans. The obama machine maximizing turnout. Hillary clinton winning South Carolina will be very important and this is a party right now in terms of the base that is far more about those voters than white midwestern voters. Guest i wonder if Hillary Clinton is just playing the primaries. Because it does signify some weaknesses as a candidate and whether smart have a problem mobilizing voters and spiking turnout in general elections. Bernie sanders is a 74yearold democratic socialist. His name recognition was next to nothing. He is pushing Hillary Clinton hard in New Hampshire and iowa. Why is that happening . Does that bode well for the Democratic Party . Why is that happening . Amy i would say a hardfought primary could make her a better candidate. By the time she was losing to obama that was the best and we were on the campaign trail together. We saw her become a good candidate. Charlie when it was too late. Amy she started to care less. Charlie is it fair to say that this early Hillary Clinton did not learn the lessons of 2008 . Guest she learned logistical lessons but she is a more stilted removed and distant candidate than in 2008. In 2008 she had run a Senate Reelection campaign and was in the mixed with voters, more accustomed to it. Im seeing some transitional issues from her going from foggy bottom in mason city. She doesnt seem to have the same feel for the electorate she had an later primaries. Charlie do you agree with that . I think i do. I do think he has a point here. The just is it is something that is always flummox and her. She is not her husband. She comes off as awkward, somewhat formal. I was listening to her at a Candidate Forum in des moines where she was asked about would you deport children who are in the country illegally. Her answer was i would provide them due process. We are talking about children. That answer is probably a safe and conventional answer but is it the answer that is memorable . Im not so sure. Amy she overcorrected some things from 2008. She was criticized for having a campaign filled with old clinton cronies. She fills them with obama people who dont have a relationship with her and cannot push back. Charlie does that include her Campaign Manager . In some cases she overcorrected. Great point. The distance between hillary and her brain trust. Last time it was too much. She would call people up and scream at them. Now you Major Players who do not communicate with her regularly. That imposes a discipline that wasnt there and gives her a bloodless mechanical quality. But she never talked about being a woman. Now she is running as the first grandmother. You see some over correcting and a lot of ways. Charlie what separates the two of them in iowa . Not in terms of numbers but in terms of issues. Amy Bernie Sanders is a visceral income inequality, take back the economy. I she goes through a laundry list of issues like autism, Prescription Drug prices, micro issues she hears from voters. Charlie joe biden said to me Bernie Sanders has been making this speech for 30 years. One thing that separates them is authenticity. Polish show people dont see her as honest and straightforward. Itll see her as a champion of middleclass interests. I was at an event with Bernie Sanders. A man got up and talked about 90,000 in student loan debt. Half his paycheck goes to student loans. He asked him to stand up and addressed the crowd. He teased out his story. It was a real connection. He turned to the crowd and urge them to vote for bernie. It is not that you see at a clinton rally. Charlie where is bill clinton . Guest we are starting to see him. He is a surrogate for her. He has been in iowa and New Hampshire. He sounds nostalgic. But his speeches have had a meandering quality. He talks about Different Things he read in the newspaper in his reaction. It is like a walk down memory lane. Guest chelsea clinton, who wouldnt talk to was in 2008, i have this great encounter where she said i dont talk to the press. I said you are all grown up now, why not . A couple of days ago she emerged as a really sharp attack on Bernie Sanders and his health care plan. That is an interesting thing. Back in 2008 i remember hillary having this constellation of surrogates who were willing to go to battle for her. Bernie sanders supporters are supportive of him. Protective of him. Hillary wants these voters. She is trying to woo them. The strategy is tricky. I see why she is doing it. The poll numbers are not looking good but there is possible backlash. Amy peter made the point of authenticity. She is going to look like a typical politician, everything the liberal wing doesnt like about the clintons. The recipe for a sanders upset calls for a large turnout of voters under 45 years old and at the lower end of the economic scale appealing to their anger at wall street and the hollowing out of the working class. That is what he has to do. Amy absolutely. The generational gap is stark. Charlie my impression was what she had done between 2008 and 2015 is put together a group of people who knew how to reach those voters. Amy i candidate is a candidate. Decades long and the public i cant change that. Young people dont see her as new and fresh. I did a lot of reporting about young women not owing so excited about the first female president. 6001 who are excited about hillary and breaking the glass ceiling. The people are not motivated by that. Its an interesting dynamic. It is striking. I was at an event at Iowa State University and there was a young mother with a baby and the baby cried. People didnt know what it was. There is not a lot of young people at the rallies. 75, 80 of folks are over 60 years old and some are in their 90s. Charlie the donald trump phenomenon. Is that a pervasive, dominant theme of this campaign or is it just the Republican Campaign because you have people in that party who are tired of not only democrats, not only the establishment in washington but their own Party Establishment . Interesting data i have seen is the overlap between donald Trump Supporters and Bernie Sanders supporters. There is a white workingclass contingent that is supportive of both. There are issues that are motivating voters to be drawn to both candidates on opposite sides of the spectrum. This anger is more widespread than just dismissing it as republican primary voters. It is a problem for hillary. Some say she is not going to win the angry though. She can win over democrats. The very angry voters are not her strong suit. Charlie is elizabeth worn on the campaign trail adult russian mark i dont think she has endorsed. She wants to determine who the person now are in the administration. She wants a say in the financial monitors in that administration. Charlie does Bernie Sanders have a ground game . Guest he does. Hillary folks got through it quickly. Sanders has an enormous amount of enthusiasm and he has a lot of money. A lot of places ive talked to, as late as the early fall they were not seeing a big presence from sanders. Now his family got door knocked the other day. He sanders folks are coming on strong. Does it beat enthusiasm . I would take enthusiasm over organization any day. Charlie but that is exactly not true in the republican party. Ted cruz may win because of organization, not enthusiasm. You are dealing about the difference in a dynamic between the democratic side and the caucus and the republican side and the caucus. , both sanders and clinton have considerably more sophisticated and expensive ground operations than exist on the republican side. He does anything compared to the massive, hundreds of staffers on the ground in iowa. Charlie february 1 is around the corner. February 8 is around that corner. If you had to predict today, does Bernie Sanders when iowa . It is hard to predict. We have all been burned. He has a good chance to win iowa and New Hampshire. If he does that is an embarrassment to Hillary Clinton. It scrambles the race. It forces her to spend more money than she wants to. I dont think you can roll up the possibility of a Bernie Sanders upset win in iowa. Who would have predicted this in may . Or october when joe biden announced he wasnt running. Charlie it gives momentum for sure. Guest if i were to guess right now, i would say he will take both of them. I think the clinton people expected a sanders surge. Contrary to what clinton said. They expected a much later surge. Three weeks out they were not expecting a surge. She does need to do something to stop sanders. I dont think anyone predicted she would come in third in 2008. Not going to predict either. Bernie could win both early states. Its a possibility. It is hard to see, she is throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks. It doesnt look a real strategy for taking on bernie. It was guns, then his singlepayer health care proposals. I havent seen a solidified message that is going to resonate without turning off his supporters. What is interesting is his socialist ties. We havent seen that at all. There is a record where he has said things about government ownership of the means of production. He wrote in 1976 he talked about that. It will be interesting to see if they feel threatened enough they would start calling attention to the fact he is an avowed socialist. That would call into question his support of president obama. Obama is widely popular around primary voters. If sanders hasnt been supportive of him, she thinks that is a winning bet. Charlie great to see you. Thank you so much. Well be right back. Stay with us. Charlie stevie guitar miller is here. He has written some of the most successful and memorable songs. The joker, fly like an eagle. Certified 16 times platinum. Rolling stone calls him a pop rock chip maker who combines indelible rifts, catchy tunes and danceable grooves into songs that light up the brock radio. He will be inducted into the rock n roll hall of fame in april. Here he is playing the joker. Some people call me the space cowboy some people call me the gangster of love some people call me maurice people talk about me they say im doing wrong doing you wrong dont you worry darling im right here. Im a picker, im a grinner im a joker, im a smoker, im a midnight toker you are the cutest thing i ever did see you love your peaches i want to shake your tree lovely, lovely all the time maybe i could show you a good time im a picker, im a grinner, im a lover im a sinner im a joker im a smoker im a midnight toker yeah im a picker, im a grinner, im a lover im a sinner playing my music in the sun im a joker, im a smoker, im a midnight toker i give my loving on the run im a picker, im a grinner, im a lover, im a sinner playing my music in the sun im a joker, im a smoker, im a midnight toker im a picker, im a grinner, im a lover im a sinner playing my music in the sun im a joker, im a smoker, im a midnight toker i give my loving on the run im a picker, im a grinner, im a lover, im a sinner playing my music in the sun im a joker, im a smoker, im a midnight toker charlie i am pleased to have steve miller here for the first time. Steve its an honor to be here. You are my favorite interviewer. Charlie how does it feel to be inducted into the hall of fame. It feels pretty good. A lot of excitement, its a surprise. They said people are voting for you. You are in this thing. People are talking about you. To be, to walk again to the hall of fame with my godfather les paul, and chuck berry, people like that i have played with and no, that feels great. Charlie les paul played a big role . Steve hes my godfather. He was the first entertainer i ever saw. He taught me how to jam, he taught me about music, about musicians. It was always funny. I saw him when i was 4. 5 years old. I saw a great guitarist and he saw him and put his over his left hand and continued playing so he couldnt steal his lyrics licks. He was very encouraging. He listened to my my father made some tapes of me when i was four years old making up songs and singing to kids in the back alley. I was doing a show and he recorded me. He played it for les paul. I was embarrassed. I was going to go places, i was going to have fun. It was 1949. Charlie did you know you wanted to be a musician . Steve i did. A came from a musical family. Lots of great musicians were coming to the house. People like that were hanging out and partying. That look like a lot of fun to me. Les paul and mary, my mom and dad were the best men and maid of honor at the wedding and spent their honeymoon night at the house. I just he taught me my first chords. Mary was doing multitrack recording with her voice. Charlie this is les paul in 1991. The year we started. Les paul steely, that first time where you do it, brandnew, the best. If you can get through it, probably everything after that will be more perfect, better but not with the same feeling. Charlie not the same humanity. Whose voice would you like to have had . Les paul anyone but the one ive got. [laughter] charlie thats him. Steve that is les. He lived to be 93 years old. He was working right up to the end. The last time, i thought he was going to live to be 120 years old. Charlie youll be admitted as steve miller, not the band. Steve i think that so much time has passed, if we had been put up for nomination, when we were originally together, the whole band would have gotten in. Guys like that are such important parts of my work and my life. I would like to bring them all in. There is a lot of people, it has been 50 years we have been doing this. Charlie 40 years since the joker. Steve yeah. It goes by fast. Charl