Daveed i love it here. Charlie tell me how you ended up in hamilton. Daveed so, i have known lin manuel and tommy, our director, for a long time. Through a group called freestyle love supreme. Which is an improvised rap concert that involves a lot of sketch comedy elements. So, i have been part of this group because i met another Founding Member of the group, anthony, because we were both called to substitute teach the same class in the bay area. Back in my substitute teaching days. Through this clerical error, i ended up in this group with lin. We were performing at the super bowl in 2012, i think, whenever it was in new orleans, maybe 2013. Tommy was directing that event. After it was over, he told me, lin is writing a rap musical about alexander hamilton. I told him it was a terrible idea and please send me the music. He asked if i would come to a reading at vassar. I said, of course, i have no money. I will do anything you ask me to do right now if there is a check at attached to it. Check attached to it. He sent me the script. He sent me the script as it was thus far, the first act and some scattered songs from the second act. All the demos of lin singing every part of every song. And beats he made in garageband, totally unfinished. It was the most brilliant thing i had ever heard. Charlie what did they say . Daveed come to vassar and do the reading. So, i did the reading, and i kept showing up every time they told me they would touch it again, i canceled plans, took flights, because i didnt want them to see anybody else. I wasnt qualified to do this, i had never done a musical, never saying in front of people. G in front of people. I had to spend time with our director so he could actually teach me how to sing. I was so uncomfortable doing everything except rapping, which i have been doing for most of my life. I was very comfortable doing that, but all of the other components, the dancing, singing, were new to me. Fortunately, everybody was very patient with me and decided to not replace me. Charlie always playing both characters . Daveed it was conceived that way. Lin said it was because we need to meet these people fresh in the second act, so you want to hopefully have the audience already fallen in love with the actor so you dont have to build a relationship with a new character, you dont have to spend time doing that. Charlie which is the hardest character . Daveed they present different challenges. Lafayette i think is physically more difficult. There is some jumping off of tables. A much more physical act. Jefferson is more vocal. He is difficult for me. Charlie more difficult in terms of, vocally . In terms of the command and the speed . Daveed they both have a couple fast moments. The speed isnt a problem, it is really singing. What did i miss . That is the most terrifying thing i do every night. It still scares me to death. Charlie it is . That is when you return to make your appearance. Daveed jefferson is just back from paris. Lafayette has just left for paris at the end of act one, jefferson comes back from paris in act ii. Charlie did you know it would be big when you started at the Public Theater . Daveed there was immediately a lot of attention. It was popular. Also, it was a 300 seat theater. Amazing people were coming, it was thrilling. But i dont think there was any way to predict how popular it would get. Charlie you said you have seen a lot of your grandfather and in Thomas Jefferson. That you portray. Daveed there is this quality to our Thomas Jefferson where, he has to be incredibly charismatic, and also have this element of danger. My grandfather was always a hustler. You know, he is the kind of person who would show up, then disappear. Whenever he was around, he was the dude you wanted to be next to. I took a lot of that, especially his walk, the walk i use for jefferson is the one i remember my grandfathers gait. It was passed down to all the men in my family. So i stole it. Charlie you have both told me the play, when we did an interview on stage, for the first time, you felt your own history. Daveed as an american, for sure. You dont always feel particularly american growing up as a person of color in this country. You certainly feel like parts of the process arent for you. You feel like, you know, being followed around in stores or whatever, not seeing anybody like yourself represented in the political process, you dont feel like parts of it are for you. All of a sudden, here, there is a bunch of people who look like me, or people who i grew up with, people i know, playing charlie founding a country. Daveed founding it. Creating the thing. That is a different kind of ownership. That is important. Are theent matinees best. We had our first one not too long ago. Charlie this is for students . Daveed one matinee a month is dedicated entirely to new York Public School 11th graders. 10 00 in the morning, the day starts, and these kids are getting on stage, representative groups from each school have been selected to present their sort of final presentations of hamilton curriculum they have been doing on our stage. We all showed up early and watch them do these incredible pieces where they are sort of using this style of storytelling to tell other stories about history, and it was the most inspired i have been in so long. Charlie tell us about linmanuel miranda. Daveed he is a genius. He is certified. [laughter] charlie he has the cred. Daveed he really is, in the best way. He is so fascinated by the things he gets interested in, and his mind works so fast. When you freestyle with somebody, you get to know them pretty well because you dont have time to put up walls, really. All your guards, the way to freestyle is to exist in the moment. The way lin works, he can grab inspiration from anything and he retains information very well. His mind moves so much faster than mine. But he is just really kind, and generous, and gets people and understands so much of this process was him sort of tailoring things to me, seeing things that i like to do and being like, why dont we make jefferson do that . You like doing that, why shouldnt he do that . Charlie how long will this run in new york . Forever . Daveed i dont know. Charlie you will be there as long as you enjoy it . As long as they daveed yeah. All of those discussions have to happen. What is great is, the show is in really in good hands. I got to see it for the first time ever. I had never seen the show. I came back my vacation and got to watch it. I was blown away. It is so good. Charlie people have seen it five times. Some have seen it hundreds of times. Daveed ronnie c, thankfully, i. I love seeing that guy, it was so great having him in the room for the process. For someone like me, and reads who reads slowly, to be able to have a question the moment and ask him immediately. About lafayette, did that break history . He will say, no, and we can keep it in the show. Charlie he gives you freedom. Daveed yeah, if you are taking a creative liberty. Charlie why is it so successful . Obviously it is brilliant. Obviously the rap is perfect and the choreography is brilliant. How does this change your life . Daveed hamilton, in all ways,. You. Ie Everybody Knows ed yeah, that is very different. I have been an artist for my whole life. And so much of that is in figuring it out on your own and doing things with your friends. I have a team of people. My stylist found this coat. It is fly. But it is not just that there are people around, there are people who really get me, and who care about my opinions, and understand, and want to help me make the career i want. For somebody who has been doing it by themselves for so long, that is a crazy thing. I live in new york. All of a sudden. I was in los angeles. I can afford to live in new york for the moment. But i dont count my chickens before they hatch. [laughter] but it is going all right right now. The community of artists has opened up. I have so many new collaborators and people to work with oliver all over the place. Charlie do you think of yourself first as a rapper than as an actor . Daveed i have always done both. I have been doing plays since i was a kid, but musicals were never my thing. That is why this feels so new. I really knew nothing about doing a musical. Charlie is the velocity hard . Daveed not for me. That is the easy stuff for me. I am from the bay area. We tend to charlie this is the fastest we have seen since shakespeare. Daveed it is high tempo for rap music. It is not twister. But it is up there. It is fast. I have always rapped fast. That has always been my thing. I remember i was working on my album, the last album i put out in 2012. That took me four years to make. I was recording a song in the studio with my producer, named wild man. What up, wild man . And we were in the studio together, and i am doing take after take, and i just couldnt get it. I had written this thing that i thought was really great. It was so fast. I couldnt wrap my mouth around it. We spent all day on it, and finally, he was like, maybe we will come back tomorrow. I said, i think i am not good enough yet. I wrote a thing that i am not good enough to rap yet, so lets record 10 or 15 other songs and i will come back to it. So it was literally like, intentionally building the skill of rapping faster. I wanted to do it for a song i really liked that id written. Eventually, we came back to it and it was easy all of a sudden. That kind of process, for velocity, is something i am comfortable with. Charlie people are amazed by it. People watching it are saying, its incredible, because it is clear. You get it. It has the music and the beat, and the rhythm there. And the melody. Daveed i credit some of that clarity to bay area stuff, we over enunciate there. It is a thing we do. Charlie lin grew up with showtunes in his house. That was the ticket for him. Daveed absolutely. That is the story telling, it is so solid. That is a crazy thing to me. To rap things that are that show offey, and also so direct and so focused and tell the story so well. That is why he spent seven years writing it. Charlie he spent a year writing one song. Daveed the director told him he had to write faster. Charlie wait for it is one of your favorites . Daveed its so good. It is so gorgeous. Every night, it is gorgeous. The way leslie sings that song just charlie silky. Daveed yes, silky. [laughter] yeah. Mean, i have the good fortune of being on stage, but in the dark in the back on the level, on the upper level, sort of singing backups for him. I listen to that song every night. It gets me every night. It is something that i think, as an artist, but really, everybody relates to the decision that now is not the time, going to wait for it. Charlie how many tickets have you gotten . Daveed they are all gone. Charlie they are gone. Daveed no more. Charlie you had a whole bunch at the top, and daveed i brought as many people through as i could. They are gone. Dont call me. I cant get you in. I am sorry. Charlie but it is so in demand, isnt it . Now six months, oneyear wait if you try to go through daveed i dont know. But there is always the lottery, which i think is good. Charlie that is great. You can come right before the theater. Daveed the whole front row, and that is so great, having the whole front row be people who, 10 tickets, they are the most excited people to be there. I dont see very well without my glasses, but those are the people i interact with most. Those are the friends. The friends and family section. Charlie growing up in oakland, how did you see rap . Was it your music, was it the only thing that spoke to your . Daveed not the only thing. But that was the one that was mine, right . My mom was a dj during the 1970s and 1980s. I sort of grew up listening to funk music. My dad was into that stuff, and old jazz fusion. I loved all that stuff. They didnt love rap music. That was mine. I came to that on my own. My older cousin would play me too short songs when i was too young to be listening to them. There was something dangerous about it, but also something people in my neighborhood were making, you know . Charlie did you want to be a rap star . Daveed i dont know about a star. Charlie lets say a very good rapper . Daveed i wanted to be very good at rapping. When i was a teenager, i started rapping, i immediately knew this was something i wanted to be good at. It is a thing i worked that. The idea of stardom has always seemed strange to me. Charlie even now . Daveed even now. I dont charlie you electrify the crowd when you come down those steps. Daveed thats good. Charlie it shifts the pace. Jefferson is back from paris. What is the line . Daveed you will be back sorry, that is the king song. Thomas jefferson coming home is what everybody is singing. I descend the staircase with all of my slaves singing. They are wheeling me around the stage. Charlie is it different today than it was two years ago . The show . Daveed yes. Charlie how is it different . Daveed other than the song tweaks we did when we transferred. Charlie to broadway, bigger house, more people. Daveed also, it is just, it is in a groove now. The possibilities feel greater now. Every moment on stage, it feels like you can make any choice and it is supported because we have been living with these characters for so long. Charlie you can still take chances . Daveed it feels like it. It feels like there are no wrong answers anymore. Doing a play is figuring out a problem, the solving of a complicated math problem. You are trying to solve it right every night. You mess up somewhere. You never get it right. If we got it right, we wouldnt do it again. There is always something to fix. Right now, it feels like there are so many things to try. Way more than it did when we first started. I used to feel like, i better get this, better say this lined the same way, or nobody will laugh, or nobody is going to hear it. Charlie the preciseness. Daveed there was a necessary precision. Now, it feels a lot looser, it feels lived in. We feel like people up there, there is more of ourselves blending with the characters as we have lived with them for a long time. So we get to just exist a little bit more. Charlie what is a day for you like . Daveed in the last 48 hours, crazy. I have been getting up, press stuff. Since the tony nomination it has been crazy. Charlie congratulations on the tony nomination. Forget press time. Before the tony nominations were selected, what was a day like . Daveed my favorite days, i get to write songs, sit at my computer and work on stuff. That doesnt happen often. Charlie but you are still creating songs. Daveed i still have a bunch of collaborators. Charlie what is clipping . Daveed clipping is myself and two producers, wayne and dutch William Hudson and thosesnipes two producers, William Hudson and jonathan snipes. And we make rap songs. There are several rules to the way we make music. I dont write in the first person. We dont have any firstperson narratives in the group. We also dont use drums. That is another rule. So, like, the sounds we are using as drum sounds are things we have made from analog synthesis or found sounds. That will go into sample breaking cinderblocks or tapping on cans or whatever, to make sounds that function the same way but this is sort of our attempt at combining sort of noise music and gangsta rap music. Charlie playing jefferson every night. A man who owned slaves. Brilliant. He loved women. He loved fine things. He helped create the republic. How do you see him . Daveed as somebody who has lived a privileged enough life to not be stressed out by his contradictions. I think a lot of us spend, me, i personally, daveed, spend a lot of time worrying about if i am, if my actions are lining up with the kind of person i want to be, or, you know . I dont get the sense from jefferson that that was a thing for him. Everything was taken care of. And he was brilliant. So he had the freedom to sort of be brilliant and not really worry about if it was good. The idea of good doesnt seem to come into play, necessarily. There is what is right, what will make the country strong, what will make me rich, allow me to keep this lifestyle. Charlie and he died broke. How about lafayette . Daveed lafayette is the opposite. He is the guy who left his wealth behind to come fight in the revolution. Charlie a sense of adventure . He wanted to test himself . Daveed he was from a military family and wasnt doing anything particularly involved with the military. He was looking for that. But also, i think because of this idea of what america represented, this idea of american democracy that the french would later sort of champion as their own, him learning about that, he felt called to come do that. When you read his letters, there that was a big difference. Theres a sweetness behind lafayette, and none of that is in jefferson. Both are smart guys. Lafayette, and maybe that is just because he is translating from french, but the writing is sort of sweeter. More beautiful. And i read a lot of letters backandforth between him and george washington, who he thought of as a father figure. They loved each other so much. Charlie lafayette and washington . Did hamilton feel the same way about washington . Daveed i think there is a lot of that there. I imagine washington was a father figure to a lot of these guys. There is also a lot of that between hamilton and lafayette. They were really the way we portray the sons of liberty, even though there are some liberties taken in compressing time and when everything happened. Like having them all meet in a bar at one time, that didnt happen. But they did, there is this sort of mutual respect, i mean, there is a great letter i got to handle the original copy of charlie from the historical society. Daveed yes. That lafayette wrote to hamilton, telling him that he had just written to washington, saying, look. He would be crazy not to make you a general. He knows that. Trust me, its coming. He really wanted to fight. Charlie he wanted to be a general. Daveed he wanted to fight. Washington decided that he was too valuable. Charlie kind of saved him until the end. How well did jefferson know lafayette . Daveed they knew each other, for sure. In their letters backandforth,. I dont know that they were particularly close. I didnt get that sense. But also, my research is limited to what i needed to do for the show. Charlie but you got interested in this. Sounds like you read a lot. Daveed i read a lot for me, but i didnt read a lot for chris jackson. Charlie he reads everything . Daveed he is a history guy. Well before this. When he got the opportunity to dive in, he had already been diving in and he dove deeper. Charlie when you look at the casting, do you think, lin is a genius. It looks like that to us. Each of them is so, you know. We dont know any alternatives, so we dont know what anybody else would look like. Chris looks like washington. He is the most imposing figure on the stage. Daveed that is what i thought. Charlie physically and every other way. Daveed when i saw it, i said, they got the dollar bill wrong. That is what the dude looks like. It made so much more sense, right . Everything. The history made more sense. I think that is lin, that is tommy, that is andy. Everybody taking care of the creative world. I think people look so right because they embody these char