Nomination, and yet, he remains miles and miles yonder. He would have to win more than 80 of the remaining delegates to clinch the nomination before the convention, and trump is expected to diminish those chances with a likely win in new york tomorrow. It is no surprise that on a Good Morning America townhall, cruz was asked by a voter if he would ever consider being trumps running mate. I have zero interest whatsoever. [applause] there are a lot of reasons, but perhaps the simplest is, if donald is the nominee, hillary wins by double digits, and i dont think there is anything we can do to change that. John thats not the first time ted cruz has said that. He has said it before. He said that will say it again. Do you taken seriously . Mark i believe there is a convention scenario, the third most likely in my mind, after trump winning an outright majority, when talk happens or if talk happens of a third candidate, john kasich or someone else who is way behind in the delicate tally, those two guys combining is the simplest way to undeadlock the convention. John donald trump would say, hes a liar. Mark they would both say, its just politics. John here is the thing. Theres never been anybody i know of who has been offered the Vice President and when offered the opportunity to be on the ticket say no. There is sense for Anyone Running for president to accept in advance the notion of an understudy job, but when you are offered the chance to be the second most powerful person in the united states, the offer is too tempting. John ted cruz says, trump will lose. Why would i want to be on a losing ticket . For a variety of reasons. As the Vice President ial nominee, it would give me a leg up the next time. I dont think those guys would walk away and let a third person be the nominee. John it is fair to say theres a lot of acrimony between the two of them, but they are both antiestablishment kind of candidates. They are more aligned than they are at odds. Mark i think it only happens to break a deadlock. Earlybird donald trump was up, busy tweeting away about the texas senator, writing that he cannot appeal to the voters. Hillary would destroy him or ka sich. Later on gma, the cruzes were asked about the tone of the republican race and how it is to be on the wrong end of trumps personal attacks. Here is what heidi kruse said. One of the qualities i have admired about ted is how incredibly unflappable he is. Things dont bother ted that bother most people. A reason for that that i have seen over the past 16 years is that ted is in politics for the issues, to focus on the issues, to get things done, and he does depersonalize a lot of these attacks. Mark if that sounds familiar to you, that is because ted cruz said exactly the same thing in his interview with us on friday. This should not be personal. Its not about him. Its not about me. Its about the country. Its about, who has Real Solutions . Millions of americans are hurting. Wages have stagnated. What im focused on is, how do we bring manufacturing jobs to new york . How do we see wages wise . How do we see young people coming out of school to job offers . What i focused on is lifting the burden of washington on small business, repealing obamacare, passing a flat tax, pulling back the regulators, stopping amnesty, and ending sanctuary cities. Those are the solutions we need to the real problem, and its why we are getting so much support. Mark do you believe ted cruz when he says he takes this stuff less personally . John donald trump calls the man lyin ted cruz. Im joking. That was one of the most boilerplate kind of answers ted cruz gave us in the whole interview. I think it would be hard, if he is a human being, to not personalize the attacks, the nature of the attacks donald trump has launched against him and insultingly about his wife. I think it would be weird if he did not take it personally. I think he is more or less capable of it. I havent seen any evidence of that. Trump has gotten under his skin. Mark we are deeply in disagreement. I believe the stuff on his wife did bother him, and i believe hes a lot like dick cheney. He cannot let personal attacks bother him. His attitude basically was, what do i care what someone else says . I think ted cruz has had an advantage in this race because he doesnt personalize this stuff. It doesnt get under his skin. He gets what politics is like. I think its a big advantage for him, and hes better at letting it go off his back. John i will agree with you that i think he may be a little better than the worst politicians, but it seems to me that throughout this race, there have been moments when he has been less discombobulated by Donald Trumps attacks than jeb was. Mark or marco rubio or john kasich. John especially surrounding his wife, i think it cut pretty close to the bone. Mark it does not get to him. It affects his performance, but it doesnt get to him. John as Donald Trumps team positions himself for a big victory tomorrow, his supporters are expressing optimism about his chances to secure the republican nomination on the first ballot. While ted cruz continues to outmaneuver trump at the state and county convention, friends of the donald are going further, saying publicly that trump must win the nomination on a first ballot. Is that smart . Mark i understand what they are doing. Some of them are saying it because they think its true. I dont think its entirely true, although its looking more and more that way. Theyre trying to say it to encourage people to get on board, but man, i think its dumb to say, we cant win on a second ballot. That is a selffulfilling prophecy. John i think you want to say, lets take care of this on the first ballot. There are a lot of ways to exhort your potential supporters without talking about the doomsday scenario. They are headed to a complicated scenario. I think it is true that if he doesnt win on the first ballot, hes very unlikely to win the nomination, but it seems to me to serve less purpose than you think it serves in terms of motivation. I think you should be like, lets go out there and win these primaries. Mark lets say he performs very well over the next few weeks. On the second ballot, he would have fewer votes, but i dont think ted cruz would have a majority. Then trump says to him, be my running mate. Lets end this now. John this message has two audiences. One is the media, no upside in telling the media its do or die. I dont think it motivates any potential voters. Voters dont think that way. They think, rally around donald trump. Mark it might motivate some delegates who are unbound. John maybe a few, but youve got to be like, lets win those primaries. Mark up next, if Bernie Sanders meets the pope and nobody takes any pictures does it make a , sound . We will answer that metaphysical, confusing question right after this. John i like that question. Its funny. [laughter] mark it was objectively another banner bernie weekend in gotham city. Bernie sanders held his biggest rally ever on sunday, drawing 28,000 people to Prospect Park in brooklyn. Despite that love and sanders belated support for a bill that would allow victims of 9 11 victims to sue saudi arabia, the vermont senator has shown no concrete signs of closing the gap with Hillary Clinton in new york state. In most empire state polls, sanders still trails the democratic frontrunner by low double digits. With all his time on the ground and all the advertising that is running, why does Bernie Sanders not seem to have moved his numbers in new york . John on the basis of the historical trend, i find it puzzling. In the end, what it speaks to more than anything is that Hillary Clintons firewall is much more durable than some of us thought it would be, that its very strong, and she has played her cards right, especially on the issue of guns, which matters in a lot of places where he has campaigned hard. Mark she has worked the state hard, and she has flaunted her expertise about how to run in new york. I think she has had maybe more good days than he has, that certainly as many, and she has done what she has done from the beginning when it was clear to her Bernie Sanders was the main opponent. She has tried to use the issue of guns and gun control to blunt attacks on things like wall street. She has not paid any price for doing things like hugging him on the minimum wage, fracking, or on trade issues. I think he has failed to change the dynamic of the race by doing anything dramatic. He has campaigned hard, debated hard, but he hasnt done anything to change the dynamic. John the gun issue has been a huge problem for Bernie Sanders throughout this fight, and maybe new york city, more than any other place in the country, its a powerful argument for her. Mark you have seen her surrogate activity in new york which is very powerful. John on friday, and in fact for much of last week, mark and i expressed skepticism about the wisdom of Bernie Sanders leaving new york in the middle of this primary campaign to speak at a vatican city conference on economic inequality. Heres a quick refresher. Given where he stands right now in this new york race, it wouldve been better for him to fly to place called rome, new york. Mark i thought they might have some secret reason why this trip was good. John the pope was going to show up. Mark Bernie Sanders wanted to go. You thought it was an honor to be included. He got some coverage, but man, it makes no more sense to me than it did before. I predicted it was going to be canceled. It might as well have been. John it turns out Bernie Sanders did get to meet with the pope privately, though there were no selfies or pictures documenting the encounter. Given everything we now know, including this papel are you having , second thoughts about your skepticism, your criticism of the trip to the vatican . Mark it takes a giant man to admit he was wrong. Even though there are no pictures of that meeting, Bernie Sanders feels really good about that trip. John are you congratulating yourself for admitting you were wrong . Mark no. I dont think he would have won the New York Primary had he stayed. I think he would have continued campaigning in a workmanlike way. This trip made him feel good. He felt spiritually good. He felt good about going. John hes a happy man. Mark glad he met the pope, honored to participate in this conference. Good thing he went. John to the day i die, i will say theres not a seasoned political veteran, camping strategist or veteran, and im sure deep in their hearts, many people around Bernie Sanders himself mark not that deep. John they would have said, we would have rather spent this day in new york. The main thing that will be a saving grace is if he loses by 10 points or 12 points, he will at least be about to look back on this and say, it didnt cost me the primary. I continue to believe that if he loses by a point or two points, people in his inner circle, they will think, im not sure that was worth it. Mark the thing im eager to discuss with tad devine they did this huge rally last night in brooklyn. They did a huge rally in Washington Square park. Why didnt they frontload those . Why not out of wisconsin . John i dont know the answer. Mark fabled new york state dining critic Hillary Clinton published a list of her favorite empire state restaurants and foodstuffs on the website thrillist. Its quite a list. John and i read it earlier this morning. We went through the list, which includes everything from upstate pizzerias and barbecue joints to the midtown establishment hillstone and red rooster. Review her review. How good is clintons new york food list . John i want to start by admitting the following. Many of these restaurants are utterly unfamiliar to me because many of them are outside the five boroughs. I would say its a very political list. The truth is, i know the restaurants the clintons go to. They are great restaurants. I could name six or seven places that i know they love that are not on this list. They arent on this list because they wouldve displaced places from geographically important spots around the state she is trying to take off the list so she has a restaurant in every county in new york. Mark you are psychotic. Its a fantastic list. Everything on that list i am familiar with is good. She was a senator from new york. John im not saying theres anything wrong with it. Mark it is i wont say that i am certain senator clinton did it all herself, but i am pretty confident she has eaten at every place, and it is a well curated she didnt say best. These are the places she likes. I would say the Clinton Campaign has largely been a competent operation. The creation and execution of this list john its a political list. Mark political backed up by quality food. John heres the one thing i can tell you, red rooster is very good. Mark nicely done. Staff work, well done. John really well done. Those are not her favorite restaurants. Up next, Bernie Sanderss Senior Advisor tad devine joins us on set. We will talk about tomorrows primary and what comes next after these words from our sponsors. John our first tonight maybe feeling a little sunburn from yesterdays massive rally in Prospect Park in brooklyn. Tad devine, the vermont senators Senior Advisor, thanks for stopping by. I want to talk about the news. You guys are complaining, upset following some complaint against the Clinton Campaign for its coordinated fundraising in hollywood. Explain what that is about. Tad there has been a lot of reporting in recent days about the way these joint fundraising committees are operating. The Clinton Campaign appears to be holding out to the public that they are doing this Great Service to the party, raising enormous amounts of money, spreading the wealth around. They are raising a lot of money. They are funneling it back into the campaign. They are paying overhead costs. They are spending millions of dollars for low dollar donors. There is one statistic that there was to raise 3. 2 million. 4 millionwe think it should be looked into. There should be transparency. John are you suggesting they are violating the fundraising limits . Tad i think that is a question that needs to be investigated. There is a limit of 2700 for individual contributions. We need some more transparency. Our campaign is not going to be involved in a system that is not in full accordance with the law, and also, bernie is concerned that many of the things, the reforms that president obama tried to implement them with party fundraising, we are moving away from that. He feels we should be moving in the opposite direction, towards the kind of system he has developed himself and implemented, which is to move away from super pacs and bundled contributions. Mark lets talk about the race at 30,000 feet. Last time, jeff weaver was at that chair and he said he had a secret document showing the path to nomination for Bernie Sanders. Assuming you all do not win 60 to 40 tomorrow, is there still a mathematical path . Tad there is. The skepticism amongst this john the people who do math. Tad ive spent a lot of time counting delegates through the years. In the last couple weeks, we have made up ground. We picked up a few delegates over the weekend in colorado. A lot of our people showed up even though there was a blizzard. I believe we can get there by the end, and by get there, i mean, i believe we can have more pledged delegates than Hillary Clinton by the voting ends in june. Mark give us an example of states where you will make up big amounts of ground. John to be clear, you are 195 behind. Tad we were 326 behind in the middle of march. There are 1675 pledged delegates left to be selected. We have to make up less than 200. Here is where. In places like oregon, i think we are going to have a very strong victory. There are 807 pledged delegates on the seventh of june, including a huge hall in california. By the time we get to california, i believe we can be in a position to win across e board in california, every demographic group, and win a sizable and substantial victory. The caucus process is a living delegate calendar, and it is as backloaded as the delegate allocation calendar is frontloaded in the primary process. We are going to continue to win delegates and delegates and pick up three or four here, four or five there. You win four delegates in a state convention, and you take those delegates away from your opponent, you get eight net. That is how we are going to do it. John answer the question that mark and i debated earlier in the show. Every state i have seen so far when Bernie Sanders has had time on the ground, time on the air, he has closed the gap and often won those states. He has not moved the needle in new york. Yes thats a lot of time and money. Why is the needle not moving more . Tad we will see how far the needle moves tomorrow. The real clear politics average of michigan was down 21 the day we won it. Lets give him one more day. I agree with you. We havent seen the kind of public Poll Movement that we have seen elsewhere. One of our strongest groups, independents, cannot vote in new york. The restrictions on getting people into the process, like when you can change party affiliation, was before we began to grow. Three, this is Hillary Clintons home state. She is well known and wellliked here. She has real standing with voters here. I think there are a lot of places where she has an advantage, but having said that, i will tell you if you were out there yesterday with 30,000 people, and hopefully tonight, if you were in Washington Square last weekend, you can feel it. Bernie really does get things going. We want to win a lot of delegates, and next week, weve got five contests. We want to win all across those states as well. Mark you are not predicting you will win tomorrow, are you . Tad im not. I think you have caught m