Companies also on the rise where the profits arent there. The risk and reward coming up. And its simply unbelievable. Wait till you see what happens here. What archaeologists have discovered in italy. Tom hanks, get ready. We found, we think, your next movie. Sue, down to you at the nyse. Yeah, its a fascinating discovery, ty. Fast money halftime, as you said, had the interview of the day so far on cnbc with carl icahn just hours after he released that letter he sent to apple outlining his activist strategy. We feel tim cooks doing a great job, but we also feel they are not doing theyre very derelict in not doing a buyback. If other shareholders feel the same way and tell us that, well test the waters because as you know, theres a great feeling about apple. And there should be. Shares of apple right now on the trading session are up 5. 27. Thats a 1 gain. But for the year, the stock is down 13 . And bond investor bill gross adding a little fuel to the fire, sending out a message by twitter, telling icahn to use his smarts to help others. Chris casso covers apple for susquehanna financial group. He joins us now. Chris, youve been positive on apple. Do you still like the company after this move from icahn . Does it make you like it more or less . Well, i think the issue that carl icahn is talking about is really dealing with the multiple that apple is likely to see in the marketplace. We upgraded the stock about a month ago on the fundamentals. And i think that frankly estimates are likely to move higher for apple based on the sales of the product. So if both of those things happen together, its good for the stock. So at this point, would you add to an apple position, if youre an individual shareholder with a longerterm time horizon . Yes, certainly i would. And our thesis on the stock really has three things to it. One is that the consumer acceptance, the current phone seems better than what we had anticipated coming in. I think the margins on apple are likely to get better as we go through the year into next year. And i really like the stock for next years products. I think the prospect of an iphone 6 cycle next year is likely to be Even Stronger than this years cycle. And all that together likely to raise numbers for the stock. Is there anything that would change your opinion of the stock . I would assume it would have to be a fundamental shift in either the products, demand, a market event, something along those lines. Thats right. And apple at this point is essentially a consumer stock. It depends upon consumer acceptance of their products. So thats always a wild card. I think what we liked and again, we upgraded the stock after the 5s came out. And the consumers seemed to like it. And its really not that different of a phone than the iphone 5, and yet consumers still liked it. I think as we go into next year, the prospect of a larger screen phone, really thats the hole in apples lineup right now is a larger screen phone. And anticipating theyre going to come out with that next year. I think its Even Stronger next year. Chris, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Chris craasso. Lets bring in andrew. Good to see you again. Zmoo thank you. You do hold a large position in apple. Give me your take on whats going on with mr. Icahn and basically whether or not you agree with his thesis. No, look. Its great. We own it. Enhancing shareholder value im all for. And i dont think he would disagree with what i would say, which is but be wary of the long term which is its a Consumer Products company. You know, wall street is littered with companies that were technologies angels and they fell. Right. Consumer innovation passed them by, and they raised their dividend, issued special dividends, bought back stock, and their stocks havent done well. Its all about innovation. As a shareholder, i want them to focus on the next products. Thats the most important. Are they doing enough for you . Well, your previous guest pointed out, look, the 5s has done better than expected, and estimates have risen. Thats why the stock is up. The stock is up because their next product generation has done better than we thought. Okay. And thats the most important thing here. Lets broaden it out to the overall market. You have been right on the money in terms of saying this market has the fundamentals to continue to go forward. And were going into the last part of the year. Very good time. Traditionally is strong, right . Yes, exactly. And what we discussed earlier this year is that were in the pe expansion market now. If classic second stage, weve had about four or five years of earnings driven, now were in the key expansion, and thats whats happened, but the market is still trading at only less than 15 times forward earnings. And with the fed not going to taper you heard Vince Rinehart just a few minutes ago say with the fed now probably out till march, i think the multiple can continue to expand until we get closer to that date. So near term, its very bullish for stocks. Next year when the fed tapers, its going to get a little tougher. But for here, i think its a pretty good environment. In between there, though, we once again have to revisit the washington story. With the debt limit. How dangerous is that for a market that has had such a significant run . Sure. Well, the answer is is that organically, the economy is recovering, and washington has tried hard to derail that. But the economy has recovered. And so thats what i think investors are finally saying, im not going to get suckered into watching washington to determine whats happening to my equity shares. And thats why we didnt see a selloff like we saw at the end of last year. Right. Or in the summer of 2011 when we had the last fight. So i dont see washington derailing the market. And i think theres been a lot of negative press about the fallout of whats happened. Absolutely there has. What areas of either domestic the domestic stock market or the Global Markets do you like for clients . So i still think that Growth Stocks have started to work. Its classic later cycle. And as much as theres a lot of these uber growth momentum stocks that have fallen out most recently, i think underline there. There are a lot of Companies Growing 10 to 15 a year that are trading at very low teens multiples. So a little bit more work, health care, consumer discretionary, technology. You know, apples only at 11 times forward earnings. So i think that there are a lot of companies out there that have quite a bit of upside because you can get Earnings Growth plus pe explanation, and thats where the real opportunity lies. Always great to see you. Thank you so much for joining us. Andrew slimmen from morgan stanley. Up to dominic chu. Check out Royal Caribbean shares, sailing higher. The worlds second largest cruise operator posted Third Quarter net income that dipped slightly. Cost cuts and rising ticket revenue helped it beat wall street estimates. It also lifted its outlook for the full year. So rcl shares, tyler, back on the rise. Tyler, back over to you. Thank you very much. Scott wapner brought carl icahn back to cnbc last hour. It seems youre his mel brooks to his carl reiner. Stephanie link, josh brown, Joe Terrano Terranova also here. I want to talk about what its like to pull into an investment like apple. Let me start about asking something that scott unearthed, and that was about his sale of netflix earlier this week. And i think we got a very interesting window into his sell discipline. He basically said it wasnt because Reed Hastings said something about the stock. It was because i made five times my money. Is that really a key takeaway, joe, from what we can what we can learn by watching icahn . Sell discipline . I think it has to be. And i also think its important to understand that what icahn is saying is im taking some profit and im hoping the sale i made is a lousy sale because i want the stock to continue moving higher because underneath it all, i still own a significant amount of shares. You have to understand the actual investment that you own. Think for a second about netflix. An incredibly rich valuation. Now you get really, really strong earnings. You want to take advantage in selling into that strength. Youre also talking about a Much Different Market cap than what hes got going on with apple. Netflix, only about 20 billion. So its much smaller. So stephanie, how do you decide when youve got a profitable position that its time to get out . What do you look for . Well, valuation. And every stock and industry, they trade on different valuation, that makes sense. Some are on pe, some are on ebitda, some are on price to sales. And i look at and i spend a lot of time at looking at historical levels. For example, youll look at a caterpillar. Thats a good example. The stock is trading at about 15 times forward estimates, but historically, its traded as high as 20 times forward estimates. So i think that you can make a case for if the stock runs to that 20 multiple, then you can take some profits. And i think its really important to, though, focus on fundamentals, though. If a fundamentals story changes and the stock is up and you have gains, then can you take some money off the table. If it doesnt change, i think its also important to take some money off the table. So josh, how do you invest when you read a headline or you hear that some smart person whom you admire, whether its icahn, whether its buffett, whether its bill miller is taking a sake stake in a company, do you ever follow them based on that alone . I think as a trader you can, and theres nothing wrong with that. But as an investor, rather than follow, you should use it for idea generation. Point of entry, not point of conclusion. Sure. Use it as the basis for, okay, what does he see here . Whats happening with this stock that this illustrious investor sees there . And you may have a totally different time frame. The other thing to keep in mind is a lot of the time when we get that information, its 45 days out of date. The 13f file is coming out six weeks after the end of the quarter. It might be a moot point. They might have sold. They might have bought more. You really dont know. I think its a starting point. It should never be a decision point. Or in the case of icahn, its instantaneous because he tweets it. I just bought it. If its above a 5 position, clearly youre going to get quicker information. He tends to take bigger positions, right . And hes had an incredibly golden year. His own stock has done well. The stocks that he has done over the years, whether josh, youre a trader or an investor, if your time horizon is one week or ten years, if youve been in some of the names that hes been in this year, youve been aware. Heres the problem with that, scott and tyler. I think this is really, really important. We could have had an identical conversation about following bill ackman a year ago before all of his trades went wrong at once. We could have done the same thing about einhorn, name an illustrious investor. Every one of these guys goes through their moments. You look troubled or puzzled. No, im not troubled by it, but i think all of us and all of them, we trace out a road map for what we thinks going to happen. I think you have to go back to what carl originally told us. What did he believe about netflix . He believed the fundamentals of the company would reaccelerate. Well, that actually happened in the earnings report. Additionally if you think back when netflix was a sub100 dollar stock, we were talking about the potential for m a. Now that its north of 350, you have to remove the m a premium which is not as significant as it was. The possibility that somebody would swoop in and pick it up. Should i play icahn by buying Icahn Enterprises . You certainly could. You could diversify. If you did in january of 2000, youd be happy as heck right now because the stock since january 1st of 2000 is up 1400 . But i think to joshs point, maybe you take it as idea generation. Were always looking for ways to find new names. And you look at a lot of Different Research houses, newspapers. If you find out that carl icahn owns a name, you start doing homework on it. I think whats happening with apple, simultaneously were seeing fundamentals start do do a little better. I asked stephanie, whats the critical reason that she looks at in deciding when to sell . When youve sold positions, what is the main reason usually that youve sold . Its fund mental fulfillment so to speak and its reaching the point where were looking for these factors to actually occur and when they do . Youve hit the metrics. I would say aphorisms is not going to help you. On the other hand, pigs get slaughtered. Theres no mathematics in that. So when icahn says im up 500 , how can i not sell, hes right, but couldnt he have also said that when he was up 300 . Same logic. So i think you have to be case by case. There is no rule of thumb. There is no right answer to this question. And i think really its about what your time horizon is, why you own an investment to begin with. What youre expecting to happen valuation, technicals, sentiment, trend. Theres no right or wrong answer. The netflix story to me teaches a whole bunch of lessons that weve talked about over the last couple days. Whether its guts, getting in at 58. The stock was broken. There was a problem with the company right . The stock had come down. You still had to buy the stock. He bought it at 58. You got to have some guts to sense that theres something going on here. You have to know but scott, there are some investors like icahn, like soosy that can create their own alpha vus by virtue of getting involved. Let me finish, its guts, knowing when not to be too greedy. He could have sold. He could still be riding this train to 6. And he still is. And the ultimate thing is knowing when to get out. But wait a minute. If i go and buy a stock, that doesnt put a floor in. If icahn does, as publicly as he did with netflix, its probably done dropping. Were not all carl icahn. That was the case maybe with bill ackman and jc penney. I can see that youre long rainbow like me. I just want to follow up here. As i was listening to your conversation with him, the thing that leaped out at me is when early in the conversation, he said, well, if he says no you asked him, what will you do if he says no . Well, then well go back and canvass institutional shareholders and see what the appetite is for a proxy. Right. Thats a nonthreat threat. Oh, i think it was a threat. Hes trying to be as cordial as he possibly can to at least get tim cook to entertain the idea of doing this big buyback. But, look. Carl doesnt get into a stock or a position, take an activist position. This is an activist position. You bet. Hes urging change and hes not going to settle for anything less. At least at this particular time. Making money in this instance is good. Hes made 300 million, 400 million already on apple. But the end game comes with more than that. If you can make the change that he says he wants. Thanks, guys, for your help today. Appreciate it. Sue, down to you. Thank you all very much. Should you believe in a stock that is soaring but has no profits . Dominic chu is reporting on these stocks for us all day long. Dom . Well, sue, take a look at this because this stock is up 129 so far this year. We dont know what it is, but we do know its made no profits over the last year, but its still powering stock gains. Stay tuned because after the break, well tell you what this stock is and some of the others that make no profits but power shareholder returns. Back after this break. [ bell ringing, applause ] five tech stocks with more than a 10 . Change in aftermarket trading. All the tech stocks with a market cap. Of at least 50 billion. Are up on the day. 12 lowvolume stocks. Breaking into 52week highs. Six upcoming earnings plays. That recently gapped up. [ male announcer ] now the world is your trading floor. Get realtime market scanning wherever you are with the mobile trader app. From td ameritrade. It is a monster day for earnings. Amazon, the big names getting ready to report after the bell today. Analysts expect a loss of 9 cents a share and revenues of almost 17 billion. But it will be guidance for the Fourth QuarterHoliday Shopping season that wall street will be watching for. Amazon may not be making money, but its stock is making money for its investors, hitting alltime highs earlier this week. Its up 30 so far this year and up 455 over a tenyear period, ty. All right, sue. You know, amazons example made us think or ask what other bigname stocks have seen a run without making any money . All day today dominic chu is breaking it down, and hes found some very interesting suspects here. Well, some suspects because back on squawk on the street, we told you about best buy and staples. Both stocks there showing tremendous runs. Both havent made any profits for shareholders over the course of the past 12 months. So lets bring you a couple others. Lets start with one which i find really interesting here. This mystery stock, which we showed you in the break before is up about 128 . Its an 11. 50 stock. And heres the thing. With regard to its losses, its made quite a few of them over the course of the past year. You can see here, theyve lost, oh, about 828 million. 12 months, all right. And, again, if you take a look at the overall return, this is a company thats in medical devices. So which company are we talking about here . Its none other than boston scientific. This particular stock has been up, again, 128 . Its added about 8 billion of shareholder value without turning any profits. So what are investors seeing that the profit and income statement arent showing . It could be about future growth prospects, about whether or not this company is getting ready to turn things around and turn a profit. But heres one thats interesting for you as well. This one we havent really seen so much of in terms of the sector. Its a 28. 50, and its up 42 just so far over the past doubling the market. Over the year. Very much so. Its a very good company thats lost over 1 billion in the last 12 months and has created about 4 billion of shareholder value. Its in oil and gas. Any guesses . Chesapeake . It is chesapeake. Thats a good one. Chesapeake energy here. This stock has, again, lost 1 billion ill take oil and gas for 30, dom. That one right there. Now, the interesting part again about these stocks is that they have shown these runups despite not making any profits. And thats why its important to understand as a stock market investor, its not all about making profits to drive stock returns. Its about the expectation that those profits can come in the future and will continue. And heres the best part. Theres a ton of these candidates out there. And coming up later on this particular show and late