10,000 troops. >> this was removing the brick from the wall. >> that's why i think trump was so surprised. even though his own national security advisers were saying no, this is the president -- it's more of trump unbound, on the phone, sort of vamping, saying what he wanted to say, unscripted. we've heard that before, say ukraine. then you have this calamity. >> to say that he's surprised, a, it implies either that he cares or that he understands the problem enough to have been surprised by a different outcome than he expected. i mean does anyone really believe he had sort of strategized the outcome and the ripple effect? >> i don't believe so. when campaign rhetoric or rhetoric as president that is just very simple meets up against very complicated and complex national security issues, i think you see exactly why the simplistic trump line on things presents real-world problems when it meets up