manufacturing and business. isn't it a fact that from a consumer standpoint, almost inevitably those kind of strategies lead to dramatically higher costs? >> not at all. because the alternative to nuclear power, which is uneconomic and can't be privately financed, has to be 100% -- almost 100% government loan guarantees, corporate socialism to you. the alternative is energy efficiency. that's the first platform for energy policy all over the world. we waste enormous amounts of energy, a megawatt of energy we don't waste is a megawatt of energy we don't have to produce. and that's the fastest, quickest, cheapest, most job intensive way. retrofitting buildings, homes, more efficient motors and motor vehicles, lighting, air conditioning systems. that's even before we get into biomass, wind power, solar thermal, photoboteic and others