and easier? >> of course, russia military is develop, it's more high tech than before. it's modernizing but the ukrainian military in moscow known very well is not the same as 2014 either. first, it has new weapons. and then, the psychological that existed in 2014, were office men, servicemen, starting to see military school in a soviet time. they were on other different sides of the front line at that time. psychologically it was very difficult for ukrainian military men to fire. to former russian colleagues. now, it's over. >> so, you talked about this being maybe part of negotiation here. and the big fear, of course, from russia was that ukraine would join nato. so that might be on the table here. but you argue that now the other