is also an elaborate production designed to persuade the audience. i'm not reducing it to a tv show, but others are, for example right now rudy giuliani is helping produce a tv show to try to counter the evidence of trump's misconduct. he's been working with a cable channel and far right wing personality. they are making a glorified anti-biden attack ad. and trump is promoting them, trying to spread the word. that's one show going on. while democrats in the house continue to take over daytime tv for televised testimony from witnesses. and republicans continue to claim the hearings are boring. the messaging war is vital here. which side is winning? with me now to discuss is washington correspondent, and staff writer for the atlantic and author david from in washington for us.