but also, wolf, when you read ambassador taylor's exchange with ambassador volker, ambassador bill taylor, the second in command in ukraine, said are we really going to withhold security assistance in exchange for helping the president? it sounds like a quid pro quo to him. >> as you know, fiona hill today, you heard from manu, had high praise for the ousted ambassador to ukraine marie yovanovitch. what picture in addition to what you're suggesting are you seeing emerge from her and potentially other witnesses? >> again, wolf, i found ambassador yovanovitch to be incredibly believable and she served hur countrimey and i did hear anything that contradicted the believe i had of her and nobody came out of marie yovanovitch testimony saying she was anything but credible. this is a scheme by rudy giuliani and the president of the united states and the rudy