Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20130221 : vimarsan

CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 February 21, 2013

Tonight, only on 360 why if the disease will not kill you, the medical bills might. Even if you have insurance. Well take you inside one patients bill and show you what the Health Care Industry does not want you to see, line by line, charge by inflated charge, right down to the paper cup in which they bring you your pills. Thats 12, by the way. Sound like nickel and diming . It could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Also, Jesse Jackson jr. s road from congress to the courthouse. To the possibility of a long stretch in prison. The Campaign Cash he took and what was bought with. Well tell you about that shortly. But we begin with a killing that has captain valeted and confounded millions of people around the world. Captivated because of the shooting death at perhaps the hands of the greatest olympic athlete in modern memory. Its confounding because each day brings more news that doesnt establish in any clear direction whether Oscar Pistorius, the blade return, shot Reeva Steenkamp dead after a long argument, orhether it was a horrific accident. Tonight, for the first time anywhere, the victims brother, adam, says that he and the family are no less confounded, no less torn. Our conversation just ahead. First, pretoria, south africa, and day two of a bail hearing thats playing out more like a complete trial. Robin kern you reports. Police take Oscar Pistorius back to his cell where hell be spending his seventh night behind bars. Hes grieving and i dont expect him to get over it even soon. So hes still in an emotionally tough time. Reporter in court, meanwhile, more riveting details about what prosecutors say happened on valentines day, when pistorius shot his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp. It was a version of events counted vigorously by his defense team. Prosecutors say witnesses heard arguments coming from the pistorius home for an hour before the shooting. The defense argues, the witnesss house was 300 meters, about a thousand feet away. Pistoriuss lawyers say, he thought he was shooting at an intruder in the bathroom. Taking the stand, officers say pistorius used a cricket back to break down the bathroom door. The bat and the cellphone were found splattered with blood. Using a diagram, the officers said pistorius aimed his gun at the toilet, pointing out that he had to turn and fire at an angle in order to hit the toilet. More prosecution evidence, a floor plan of the apartment, which the state shows pistorius could not have crossed the bedroom towards the bathroom, without realizing steenkamp was not in bed. Defense attorneys pressed the Police Officer who admitted that steenkamps body had no signs of an assault or signs of her defending herself. The officer also conceding he could find nothing inconsistent with pistoriuss version of events. Prosecutors say police found bullets in a safe in the home and they say that will lead to charges of possessing illegal ammunition, but later the investigator said they did not establish whose ammunition it was. Prosecutors say theres no way that killing of steenkamp was selfdefense. They cited two previous incidents of Police Encounters with pistorius, that suggests he could be prone to violence. Adding that since they consider pistorius a flight risk, he should be held without bail. Still, legal experts believe pistorius has a good chance of spending thursday night at home. Personally i would like to see him receiving bail at this stage, that the law can take its course, normal course, that we shouldnt have a trial by ambush. Court will reconvene on thursday morning. Robyn curnow is joining us now. Take us inside the courtroom today. Apparently Oscar Pistorius was a lot more composed today than he has been the last two days, is that right . Reporter absolutely. He was not so inconsolable when reevas name was mentioned, when words like murder were read out in court. He didnt just collapse in tears as i saw him in court yesterday. It sounds as if the Police Investigators may have botched some key aspects of the investigation. Is this something that happens often in south africa . Generally how reliable is the police force there . Bungled, botched, messed up. I dont know what kind of words you want to use, but its common. I mean, im sorry to say it. Even in this case, we heard from the investigating officer that he didnt wear protective shoe covers when he went into the house after the shooting. So essentially he just contaminated the entire crime scene. And another example in terms of bad detective work, in this case particularly, they said initially Oscar Pistorius was a flight risk, that they didnt want him to have bail because they thought that he would leave the country because he had overseas Bank Accounts and a house in italy. But the defense put it to the investigator on crossexamination, what is this about a house in italy . How do you know . Do you have proof that oscar has a house in italy . And the investigator said, i just heard he did. You know, thats not the kind of thing thats not the kind of, you know, information a prosecutor the prosecution should be putting across, this sort of really sort of haphazard rumor i heard things that lets build our case out of that. I think there really was the sense by the end of today that not only have the polices case essentially been unravelled, but, you know, the chief investigator looked very redfaced. I mean, i think he really lost a bit of his reputation after coming out of that court today. All right, robyn curnow at the pistorius trial in johannesburg, south africa, thank you. Thank you. Digging deeper into the legal case and especially the forensic evidence on which the case could turn. Were joined by criminal defense attorney mark geragos, coauthor of mistrial, an inside look at how the criminal Justice System works and sometimes doesnt. Also, of course, former l. A. Deputy District Attorney marcia clark, author of the legal thriller guilt by degrees, and also forensic scientist lawrence kobalinski. Of the john j. College of criminal justice. Mark, ill start with you. All this back and forth with the detective on the case. You think the prosecution is unraveling . Yeah, i think its unraveling. And we said here last night that this prosecution when they came up with this kind of hairbrained theory that all of a sudden this guy woke up and decided he was just going to kill somebody who, by all accounts, he loved made absolutely no sense. And then sure enough we had talked yesterday about the urban legends that exist around this case already, which happens, frankly, with a lot of these cases, and once you get somebody up on the stand and you get an officer up there and thats one of the great things about crossexamination, its a great Search Engine for the truth. And all of a sudden look what happens. All of this stuff out there in the ether turns out to be untrue and its nothing but somebody surmising. All in all, it looks to me at least like clearly he should get bail and it looks like the magistrate wasnt buying what they were selling as him being a flight risk. The magistrate said where is he going to go . Clearly he is one of the most recognizable people around. I think this case is unraveling as fast as can be. It doesnt mean that there is no crime here. I mean, there can be a crime here, but its certainly not premeditated murder. Marcia clark, the court system in south africa appears quite different than that here in the u. S. I mean, this bail hearing looks like a trial, and because of that, the prosecution has had to show their evidence very early, almost immediately. You say thats a real disadvantage. Its a problem. Its a problem, jake. The prosecution has only just gathered the evidence. Lets remember this only happened a few days ago and it takes a while for everything to shake out. It takes a while for us to know what the evidence tests out to be. We dont even know if its really testosterone that was found in his house. We dont know what, if any, blood results from pistorius himself are and whether he was under the influence of testosterone. We dont know so much. Yet theyre being required to put it all forward very quickly in this hearing. I can see where things are not quite as tight as they should be. I agree with mark that certain things did fall apart today, and the fact that they were not wearing protective covering on their shoes is a loss. How big a loss remains to be seen because if the floor was not going to provide much evidence anyway, perhaps you havent lost much. But its not good. On the other hand, the fact that they missed on certain things like whether he had a house in italy and the nature of his flight risk doesnt mean that the whole entire case is falling apart. We dont throw the baby out with the bath water. Nor is anybody saying i dont think the prosecution is even saying that he suddenly woke up in the middle of the night and decided to shoot his girlfriend. What the prosecution seems to be saying is that there was a nasty fight going on for some time that evening and in the midst of which he targeted her and the scenario that paints itself is that in the midst of the fight she went and locked herself in the bathroom, and he pursued her with a gun and then later said, oh, its because i heard a burglar, et cetera. The fact that she was found fully clothed in the bathroom tends to indicate that she was not asleep in bed next to him and the fact that he first ran to the bathroom and fired shots without first turning to his girlfriend and saying, honey, stay here, im going to go see what that is, or did you hear that strikes me as a little odd too. There are things that need to be shaken out here. We need to find out what all of the evidence is, whether there is evidence of Domestic Violence and whether there was evidence that is credible of a fight between them that night. Theres a great deal we dont know. I think its a little too soon to say that the case is falling apart. Marcia, i dont want to be flippant about it, but obviously you prosecuted another famous athlete whose beautiful blond partner was murdered. And im wondering if this feels at all similar or if its just a completely different case to you. Its completely different to me. There were aspects of the Simpson Trial that were so huge and really distinguished it from any other that you cant compare it to this one, and many of the issues that we had in the case that were the most significant issues are not present here. Domestic violence murder is, sadly, jake, not an unusual thing, and its something that its pretty, unfortunately, common in both countries. I think all around the world. So in that sense i suppose they are the same but in that sense so many crimes are. Lawrence, youre a forensic expert, and you say the ballistics will offer the crucial evidence here, what has been lacking so far. I think that an analysis of the ballistics evidence including trajectories of the bullets fired will reveal an important piece of information. It will either support the story that mr. Pistorius has given or it will support the prosecutor, and the issue has to do with whether or not mr. Pistorius was wearing the pros theeties. If he was, he was taller, and, therefore, the ballistics, their trajectories, would be different than if he were not wearing the prosthesis. An analysis of the trajectories, we know how many bullets were fired. We know that it penetrated a door. We know a lot of information, but we havent heard it all yet, and i think once that is revealed, we will be able to determine whether his story makes sense or it does not. We only have about a minute and a half. I want to get to a few things here. Doctor, first of all, it was revealed today that the Forensic Team left behind a shell casing. Skptd and the detective did not wear shoe coverings, because the police ran out of them. Is that damning to the prosecutions case . Well, i think its terrible. When you hear such a breach of procedure, its terrible. But on the other hand, it may not be a fatal issue. It certainly raises a lot of questions about the prosecutors case. But did it, in fact, change the ballistics . I doubt it very much. We know how many shots were fired and the victim was hit a certain number of times. Yes, its terrible, but it doesnt really ruin the case completely for the prosecution. Very quickly, marcia, what are we to make of this introduction of testosterone and needles found at the crime scene . It seems to me theyre aiming towards showing roid rage, so to speak, that he acted out in rage and that rage was amplified by the use of drugs. Now, whether thats true or not, we dont know. We dont know whether the substance in his house was tested out to be testosterone. They did find syringes along with it, which seems to indicate that it was, but we dont know. We dont know whether they took his blood immediately after his arrest. If so, whether its been tested or not. That would be very important. The mere fact that he has testosterone in a house is of no significance unless we can show that he was under the influence of it at the time of the shooting. Many things have to be known before you can make much of the existence of testosterone in the house. All right. Marsha clark, larry, and mark, thank you so much. Let us know what you think. Follow me on twitter jaketapper. And much more ahead, youll hear from Reeva Steenkamps brother, adam, about how conflicted he and the family are about whether Oscar Pistorius is a coldblooded killer. Later, would you buy an elks head from this man . He had a couple in his old office paid for by campaign donations, and thats not all Jesse Jackson jr. Bought, including possible prison time. His spending spree and guilty plea ahead on 360. Backward. [ engine turns over, tires squeal ] and youll find advanced Safety Technology like an available headsup display on the 2013 lexus gs. Theres no going back. The battle of bataan, 1942. [ all ] fort benning, georgia, in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa Auto Insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaas commitment to serve the military, veterans, and their families is without equal. Begin your legacy. Get an autoinsurance quote. Usaa. We know what it means to serve. [ angry gibberish ] [ justin ] mulligan sir. Mulligan. Take a mulligan. I took something for my sinuses, but i still have this cough. [ male announcer ] truth is, a lot of sinus products dont treat cough. They dont . [ male announcer ] nope, but alka seltzer plus severe sinus does it treats your worst sinus symptoms, plus that annoying cough. 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If you are finding it hard to get a sense of whether Oscar Pistorius murdered his girlfriend in cold blood or killed her tragically, accidently, youre far from alone. It turns out the victims family is in the same situation. Reeva steenkamps brother, adam, acknowledged as much when we spoke earlier today about that and especially about the sister he loved. Adam, first of all, our deepest condolences to you and your family. I cannot even imagine how hard this must be. How are all of you holding up . We are all holding up very well considering the circumstances. Weve now had just about a week to let things sink in, and weve had a very busy few days as well. So i feel like we have done the most difficult things for us as a family so far in viewing my sisters body and then attending her memorial yesterday. Were doing okay. Yesterday after your sisters memorial, you said there is now a space missing inside the people that used to know her, and she will be missed by everyone. Tell us for a minute, if you would, tell us who she was, what kind of a woman was your sister . My sister was a beautiful woman outwardly and even more so inwardly. She brought people together. For the family she was i suppose you could consider her the glue that sort of held us together at certain points. Her empathy. She had empathy for people. She was she cared for other people. She put other people fir. She was just a very caring, lovely person. Several family members have said that none of you are focused really on the court proceedings. Youre focused on the here and now. Explain what you mean by that. Well, that is correct. The here and now is just really as a family seeing ourselves focussing on the fact that reeva is not here and coming to terms with that. That is, im pretty sure people can appreciate, you know, such a big thing. How could there possibly be space for anything else . It just so happens that this tragic circumstance for us is slap bang in the middle of an even bigger story. We just dont have the space at the moment to think about the details of whats happening with oscar at the moment. Im sure that will come. Ive read that your sister did not really like to talk much about her private life even with close friends. How much did any of you and her family know about her relationship with oscar . Weve heard mixed accounts. Some reports describing a loving relationship. Others say that there were problems. What was your impression of her relationship with Oscar Pistorius . I had no bad indications whatsoever. I did not actually talk to my sister in any detail about oscar at all. I mean, in fact, i didnt talk to my sister about oscar at all. I wouldnt like to put words into m

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