Russian moves and western moves. Again tonight we have a lot to cover. Lets begin with flight 370 and the bluefin21. Finding the boeing triple 7 depends on the bluefin which could be a problem. The breaking news, it is just back from a third mission, the first full outing after the mission was cut short. Michael holmes joins us from headquarters from perth, australia, so tell us about this third time in the water. Reporter yeah, third time is a charm. That is right, anderson, it is back after a First Complete mission. You remember the other two missio missions, the first one cut short because of a failsafe mechanism in the bluefin that told it when it got to 4500 meters to come back up. They fixed that Software Problem and now it can go as far as 5,000 meters. The second problem that cut Short Mission number two was a bit of an oil leak in the bluefin. Again, the searchers are not that worried about it. They say it was not that big of a deal. They pulled it up, fixed it. And sent it back down. In all they covered about 35 square miles of the ocean floor down there. And once they have downloaded this latest data, they will send it back down again. And in terms of analyzing the data, there is still no information on what they got on this third trip . Not yet, they do tend to release it quickly. The first two missions they say nothing of significance in the data. Now, well remember the first time they went down there that is the area they really want to search. And it was cut short because the bluefin thought it was a little bit too deep for it to go. They were told it was okay for it to go that deep. They worked out that the depth there is about 4600 meters. So they are going to send it down and go over that area again at some point. Because of course, that is where the pings that were most promising were. Anderson . The oil that they collected near the ocean shield a few days ago that they believe was oil, any word if it is from the plane . Reporter not yet word on whether or not it was from the plane. And we do expect to hear shortly, the sounds they got, a thousand miles offshore. What they did was send an Australian Naval vessel out towards that area until it was close enough to come in and bring that sample. The ship then came close enough for the helicopter to come to shore. So that took a bit of time. It is being analyzed as we speak. And we hope to get more information in the next few hours. Meanwhile, the search in air and sea is continuing. All right, late word just in from the u. S. Navy which confirms the underwater search is just happening, and the one detected at 9 27 p. M. , detected for 13 minutes, a significant amount of time. Lets dig deep on the possibility that because of them it would help to have more of them. Tom foreman has been exploring that angle. He has more. Tom . Reporter hey, anderson, the effort above the water has involved dozens of planes and ships going back and forth. So why not apply the exact same thing below the water . We have been talking about how this bluefin will go back and forth mapping the bottom with a sonic signal. Basically they call it mowing the grass, that is the term they use as it makes its way back and forth. So why not add another . Maybe five or ten or 20 of them . Why not have them working altogether because if that is the case couldnt you get it done a lot faster than weeks or months . Not really, and here is why, there is a question of availability. There are only about 100 of these bluefins in the world right now. And this one being used right now costs about three and a half million dollars. So to get them all assembled, you would have to have governments and resources. Secondly, you would need support for all of these. Each one would require a team of experts who know how to program it, operate it, launch it, retrieve it. Get the data off of it. Bear in mind this weighs about 1700 pounds. Just putting it into the water and retrieving it each time is like putting a small automobile in and out. That is not easy. And lastly, there is the issue we come back to many times. We talk about this as if it is a Billiard Table where things are going back and forth easily. Coordinating that is hard enough. But the real terrain is harder, with hills and valleys that compromise the ability to coordinate with each other on planes. All of this makes this seemingly good idea maybe one that is completely unworkable. All right, tom, thank you very much. And there is growing recognition that the current operation may not last long until the Current Administration decides to try something different. And Prime Minister tony abbott says we believe it could go on a week or so. We will simply move to another phase if that does not work. And what constitutes a plan b, if there is one. Also former Transportation Department mary schiavo who currently represents accident victims and their families. Richard, what about what the australian Prime Minister is saying . If they regroup, they will railroad consider, what exactly does that mean . Well, it means if you have not found anything in the area where you were most promising to find something, and houston basically said it is around the ping that gave the strongest signal, which we now know this evening was the second ping. If you havent found anything in that vicinity you have got to really seriously question is it worth keeping going to the first and the third and the fourth . And that is when you have to rethink the strategy. Jeffrey, you have been talking to your sources there. Do you have any special insight into what the Prime Minister meant . I mean, is there really a plan b . Look, i think there is a very strong prediction, the way they are looking right now is where the airplane is. That is the undercurrent that i get to the number of people that i speak to on this issue. Plan b, theyre talking about if it is deeper than the four and a half thousand meters, significantly deeper than the four and a half thousand meters, they will have to get vehicles that go significantly deeper. But i believe there is a strong conviction they are in the right place, the final resting place of the aircraft vehicle. I mean, as far as going deeper, im not sure what that plan b might be because theyre pretty certain it is where theyre looking. Jeffrey, i know youre hearing from your sources. And again, you have amazing sources there. How confident are you that they know what the terrain is like this deep . Because clearly on day one of this mission with the bluefin21, it was deeper in a pocket than they had anticipated. Reporter look, that is one thing they are confident about. And they are confident that they dont know what it is like down there. And that is why theyre talking about a plan b that we may have to have much deeper. This area of the indian ocean, my understanding from local oceanographers, that is the least explored part of the ocean anywhere in the world. It just simply has not been mapped properly at all. The depths are just really estimates in many, many cases. So this is probably where the plan b comes in. We may have to go much deeper than we originally expected. And david gallo, i mean, it is a good thing for them to admit what they dont know. Sure, i spoke with some colleagues before i came in tonight. And there is little just like topographic, but at the bottom of the ocean. That is what is so amazing, in this day and age, again it is often said we know more about the surface of the moon than the depths of the ocean. It is not completely mapped out. We have a general feeling for where the big lumps and bumps are, but when you get to the tactical levels, the hills and valleys, there is very little information. Who has been able to do that . Is there a drive to do that . Yes, the oceanographers and scientists have been told there are 7 of our ocean that is it, most of our planet. Were living on an unknown pl planet. That is crazy 7 . The highest, deepest valleys, waterfalls, lakes, rivers, we find more life there than the tropical rain forests, but were not giving attention to how important this is. Mary, how amazing is this with multiple countries involved . I assume if australia is called about a possible next phase . I would assume they have to do that in conjunction with malaysia, it is malaysias investigation to control. So i think that australia will make the recommendation and malaysia will concur, or theoretically, i imagine they would concur. If the first efforts dont pan out then i think they will explore all the efforts of the pings and then fan out a little more. Because remember we hear the information about the acoustic tricks, three miles from the pings, i think they will do everything before they exhaust plan b. Why not have more bluefins in the water . To protect the plan, to me, you have to have the right technology. They do, bluefin21, the team they have out there are very talented. And then the right plan, so the plan they have chosen is they said okay, we have the pinger. That is the spot. Well throw the dart right into the bulls eye or close to it. So no need to go to a broader search with more vehicles. As tom foreman said you need much more support, more people to plan that. But it is way too soon in the process to think about that yet. And that is something that houston said when he first announced that they were going down on the weekend. Angus houston, the head of the Search Committee or the search organization. He basically said, was asked again and again, what do you do if you dont find anything . What is plan b . And he said were a long way from that yet. He estimates six weeks to a couple of months to search the area that they have already identified, so he is not expecting i dont know why tony abbott is putting it into a week. Houston was talking about six weeks or several weeks up to a couple of months for this phase. Positively, it is a longterm. Were in for the long haul. We have to take a quick break, we have a very full hour including president obamas response to the showdown with russia. Let me know of any questions you have, tough new questions about the 370 investigation next. Also later, a live demonstration of the actual science of underwater sonar mapping. It is fascinating. Also, more on steve faucett, the search for his missing plane because everybody was essentially looking in the wrong place. Also breaking news on the sunken ferry, just a horrific scene off south korea in the very chilly waters. Well have the latest on the sinking, and how many people are missing on ac360. 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Enjoy the relief they dont know it yet, but theyre gonna fall in love, get married, have a couple of kids, [ children laughing ] move to the country, and live a long, happy life together where they almost never fight about money. [ dog barks ] because right after they get married, theyll find some financial folks who will talk to them about preparing early for retirement and be able to focus on other things, like each other, which isnt rocket science. Its just common sense. From td ameritrade. Well, welcome back, the First Successful mission of the bluefin21 search, it is programmed to go deeper because we just learned the ocean floor is deeper than they expected. As for the area itself we also just learned the search is happening where the second ping was detected, the one detected saturday april 5th, at 9 27 a. M. Now the reason the navy tells the searchers the ping is the most promising is because of its quality. The word they used. Those details like many others in the search come almost like clockwork. We get them almost every day from australian authorities. And the answers are much harder to come by. The answers about the copilots cell phone. Pamela brown worked on that, what did you learn . Well, anderson this is just another tiny piece of the puzzle. And experts and sources are trying to figure out what this information about the copilots cell phone really means. What we do know is if any of the passengers phones were on, they should have felt that ping. Many forget to turn off their phones, likely it was not just the copilots phone, but experts say the copilots cell phone should have been off. So the question looms, was it on right before the plane took off, or half an hour after the planes systems mysteriously shut off. And i want to make it clear here, anderson, sources say there is no indication any calls were placed. And again just because a phone connects with a cell phone doesnt mean a call can go through. And it is really tough to get the answers, and the information to know what all of this means. Any information gleaned about the cell phones obviously could aid in the investigation. Right, it could if certain factors become clear like the copilots phone was turned on and then off after the plane disappeared. But the investigators dont seem to be jumping up and down over this information. They have known about the Data Detection equipment, and they dont tell us much about whether or not anybody was alive on the plane. So far it is not leading to answers here, in many aspects folks are sitting on their hands waiting for the black box to provide the real clue on what happened on flight 370. Everything so far is just a small piece of the overall picture. All right, pamela, thank you very much. This is a dumb question, or actually, maybe david gallo, is there any value in retrieving cell phones from the depth, or probably not . I have been meaning to check on that. It seems like not, but if there were clues to be had, i dont really know the answer to that. If there were pings, it is a pretty small area. Yes, we were warned that was exactly where it was going to be. It takes six times as long to search the same area that could be searched in the day by the towed pinger locator. And that was why they were determined to exhaust the tpl to the last possible second, because they knew this was a very slow process. But they do believe they have narrowed it. The word they used was manageable. It is clearly not desirable, but the area theyre looking at now is manageable given time, patience and efforts. And david gallo, i keep hearing people refer to the air france investigation which you coled in the underwater search. And i used to use that level thinking oh, it took two years to find. But you clarified that, a lot of it was getting permission from bureaucracies, getting permission to go on site. With actually days searching vehicles underwater, how long . It depends on how you count it. We were there a total of about ten weeks, and two months of that, eight weeks we spent in the wrong haystack, there was debris that led us to the wrong aircraft. So we spent two weeks on that. Then it was eight days. Eight days, i mean, that is incredible. So you were using three vehicles at the time . Three vehicles. So can you extrapolate if they were in the right area and there was one vehicle, we should be looking at six months . Remember, were not looking for just an aircraft. You were looking for a debris field which could be hundreds of meters across and it could be something as simple as a plastic cup that tells them this is the right spot. Do you think there is debris floating on the surface of the water, just the question of they cant find it . Well, i have to come back to the hms sidney, gone without a trace except one raft that shows up i think years later on christmas island, a thousand miles to the north, maybe more. So mary, as an attorney for victims and accidents, what does that mean for litigation . What that means is they will litigate under what is called the montreal treaty. The airline is going to be responsible for their passengers unless the airline can prove it took all reasonable pressures to prevent what happened. Of course, it is impossible for them to show that because it could be mechanical. It could be a breach of security, you know, pilot action. So the airline will be responsible for its passengers. And if and when they ever find anything it usually what happens is they do a full and complete settlement or litigation. A few may opt out and say no, were going to wait and hold back on just potential finding something mechanical wrong. But the airline will be responsible. What does this do, richard, to the industry as a whole . Does Something Like that have an impact . Yes, it goes to the core, the icao organization has set up something that would be an extraordinary meeting to be held next month in may, in montreal, where they will look at lessons to be learned. The airline forum, they will discuss it at their annual meeting in june. Let nobody be in any doubt this is going to change the way planes fly, the way data is handled and the way aircraft is tracked. Just as really every crash, every horrific incident like this has had an impact on the industry . This will be in a much greater league. Really . Yes, because quite often you change some minor technical ity on the aircraft. Some procedure, some form of management within the cockpit. This will go industrywide. It will probably go across all forms of metal with different times of aircraft and it will be fundamental. The issue will be how long the nations can agree on a course of action. Icao is slow, tedious, and it can be a lot of bureaucracy. Mary, do you agree it will have an impact historically . Well, i think what is probably going to happen is nations will do it one by one. And one of the biggest problems will be the united states. Because it is so very difficult to get the faa to act. Because whenever they propose new regulations, and they dont even need an act of congress. The faa has the power to propose regulations like this. Whenever they do it the lobbying effort on the hill is i mmense, from the air Traffic Control system they already have made 7 billion in loans to help to get this done and still theyre complaining about expense. So i think the faa needs to be the leader to get this done worldwide and they need a lot of pressure. And congress cannot cave. Because if they cave it is all over. And also passengers are much more wellinformed on what is going on in the cockpit and the mechanicals than before. I