With promoting dangerous contraband destroying evidence official misconduct in terms of destroying evidence that could be reference to some of the paintings that richard matt has made. You heard about those in the past. Apparently he gave may have given some paintings and or drawings to gene palmer as well. And then shortly after gene palmer found out about what happened with the escape he allegedly destroyed some of the paintings and or drawings. That could be part of the reason why you see that destroying evidence charge. I also as i said, i spock to his ahis i spoke to his attorney. He said his client is very upset. His client had no knowledge at all of what was inside that frozen chunk of hamburger meat that Joyce Mitchell you already know about her, that she convinced gene palmer to pass that on to richard matt. We have two prison employees, Joyce Mitchell you already know was charged in her connection with the escape. Now you have gene palmer who has also been charged. Once again his Attorney Says he did not know what was inside that slab of meat. His attorney also says anderson he had absolutely no knowledge of any escape plan. Anderson. We should point out the attorney is saying he didnt know obviously there was something hidden in the meat not obviously, the claim that he dent know. He did and the attorney has admit heedted he neglected to put the hamburger meat through a metal detector that would have discovered this . Thats correct. And once again, this was a clear violation of prison policy. That is something that was acknowledged by his attorney early on. But he just wanted to emphasize though thee had made that mistake, and he just wanted to emphasize this was also a man who relied on matt and sweat over time as a source. Often time he would lean on both of them for information about other inmates there in the prison who could have caused trouble. So he said there was some sort of a relationship there. He was hesitant to use the word trust. But he said he didnt seem to be anything unusual about wanting to pass something along. It was a violation of prison policy. Not checking that meat. Not passing it through a metal detector. Thats part of the reason why you are seeing some of the charges we are seeing here tonight. We are going to talk to a prison expert coming up. One thing he raises to night. I think a very important point, we dont know the answer to it. Did gene palmer have approval to use richard matt and david sweat as basically as a source as somebody who gave them gave him information about what was going on in the prison. Because there are protocols for how you are supposed to actually get information from inmates, for how you are supposed to use an inmate in that capacity. Not something you are supposed to do unilaterally on your own without some sort of higher up approval. We dont know if we had that approval. That would be something certain certainly investigators will want to look at. Do we know when the arraignment is going to take place, jason . A couple things. First about that arraignment im told from his attorney the arraignment will take place sometime tonight, that time not set, at least not yet. But in terms of the source i think this has something to do with prison culture. Often times whether it as the Clinton Correctional Facility or in california at l. A. County you know, i have heard abutout this before guard relying on inmates to try to get information abut other inmates that will cause trouble. The unwritten rule if you will. The way that prisons operate. It is just a reality. Officers and Prison Guards who are there have to be able to get information about other inmates there who are going to be cause trouble, who might be trying to cause a fight, who might be trying to eliminate someone, if there are rival gang members working inside prisons and you are gig truetrying to get information. Its not unusual to try to get sourced information. Not something written on the books. Something that happens. Something really a part of prison culture. Andersen. Jason. I appreciate the update. Continue checking with you. As the story develops. There is a whole new dimension. Joining us Jeffrey Toobin senior legal analyst. Jeff what do you make of this . How serious are the charges against gene palmer . It is very serious. And you interviewed gene palmers lawyer last night. And his his argument was very clear. Joyce mitchell had deceived and misled gene palmer about her relationship with the inmates, about what was inside themality and this arrest indicates that the, the police dont believe that. They belief that gene palmer was at least involved in improper activities in relationship with the inmates and perhaps, now this is not quite clear yet, he may have been involved according to the authorities theory with the plans to make the escape. But these charges dont necessarily indicate that they believe he was involved in the escape plan itself it could be viewed as just even if he was duped he violated prison approximately see, hepolicy allegedly destroyed evidence and thats what the charges are based on. Those are not just violating prison policies. Hes arrested for crimes. He is not arrest forded for violating the internal procedures. So it is a very serious matter. The way i read this very preliminary indication is that the prosecutors are leaning on him and trying to get him to tell anything he knows about the escape. While leaving open the possibility of charging him with some complicity with the escape. Jeff toobin appreciate you calling in. Thank you again. The attorney, andrewgave us an indication. We spoke earlier this evening before the new charges came to light. Mr. Wiley, i want to ask you about the investigation into what happened inside the prison. I speckoke to the attorney for gene palmer the one who brought the meat from Joyce Mitchell to matt and sweat. He said his client had no knowledge of what was in the meat is that your understanding as well. That is our understanding. Speaking with Joyce Mitchell she advised us that gene palmer in all likelihood had no idea that what he was bringing themality meat in had the hacksaw blades in it. And gene palmer the statement he provided and he took a approximately polygraph test that came up positive he had no knowledge of the hacksaw blade in the meat. They tripped a breaker to the cells and telling him they could fix the problem theyve had simple hand toochltz canls. Can you confirm that is true or not . There is information he allowed them to go into the back of the cells, in the catwalk area and fix the breakers that were there. At that point in time the information we had, they all had hot plates. It was to to help the breaker, fix the breakers so they could use their hot plates to cook their food. So so he knew they were going back behind the cells to the catwalk area . Correct. He actually took them behind there to do that. Were they alone there . Or were they with him at all times . It is my understanding they were with gene palmer at the time. Do you have any indication why palmer chose not to put the hamburger meat through a metal detector . Because that would seem to be prison policy . It would be prison policy. But in situations i think of this nature andersen, they are the guards develop these friendships with some of the inmates. They also will have inmates assist with information they can obtain in the facility involving other inmates all most like on the outside using a confidential informant for a drug buy. We are also hearing more from other inmates about the relationship between mitchell and sweat. One former inmate estimated the two had sex more than 100 times which certainly sounds like an extensive and most likely conspicuous relationship is that how mitchell described it as well . Absolutely not. She never described the relationship between her and sweat in any manner of that nature. Im not sure who the inmate is that is providing that source. But we dont have that information. That in terms of where they did this that same former inmate who said the more than 100 times, said that they would go to a storage closet. To you knowledge is there a storage closet in the tailor shop . There are a number of storage closets in the tailor shop. There is also from what i understand a a bathroom within the tailor shop as well. The Storage Units that i observed i cant imagine anything could go on there with the exception of putting in Paper Supplies or or the supplies they needed in the tailor shop. Just in terms of trying to get to the validity of what the inmayte said he said more than 100 times with sweat, would it be accurate to say she had sexual relations more than 100 times with matt. Absolutely not. Not that frequently . No. I think there is quite a bit of exaggeration going on there with the source. Obviously you have a lot going on. The manhunt is not your responsibility. There are reports there was a bloody sock found at the cabin where they were. Can you confirm that . Does that indicate one of the men may have been injured and if so do you know which one . Well there is a sock that has been recovered listed as white and red. And the red could obviously be blood. There was i dont have a full detail on the, the analysis that was conducted on the evidence. That was secured from the cabin and brought done to albany for testing. But i do know that a dna profile was from one of the socks. What particular sock it was, relative to blood being on a sock we are talking these men have been out in the wilderness out in these conditions for the last 18 days. And, not sure what type of footwear they were they were wearing. But, certainly theyre feet could have been, cut up bloody as a result of the the walking through the woods. That they have been doing the last 18 days. So we are not, its not clear how much blood there was, whether a blister or Something Like that or injury. Andrew wiley, i do appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Yourswellre welcome. Thank you. A lot more ahead on this development and what a former warden has to say about the arrests and what we are learning went on at the prison. Later as the the slain pastor of charlestons emanuel ame lies in state, the same bible study class where he and eight others were murdered that bible study class is just getting under way. 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So youre a Small Business expert from at t . Yeah, give me a problem and ive got the solution. Well, we have 30 years of customer records. Our cloud can keep them safe and accessible anywhere. My drivers dont have time to fill out forms. Tablets. Keep them all digital. Were looking to double our deliveries. Our fleet apps will find the fastest route. Oh, and your boysenberry apple scones smell about done. Ahh, youre good. I like to bake. With at t get up to 400 dollars in total savings on tools to manage your business. Prison guard gene palmer by his lawyers account, just a trusting guy, charged with destroying evidence and expect to be arraigned tonight. What he dade cording ingdid was let killers sweat and matt on to the catwalk behind their cells to allegedly trouble shoot electrical problems their hot plates were causing. Meat provided by Joyce Mitchell who was having sex with matt. Now if all of this sound to you more like minimum sanity at the maximum security you are not alone. Late today we learned more than a dozen investigators from the state Inspector Generals Office descended on the Clinton Correctional Facility looking at security lapses. Well talk about that with a former warden. First, gary tuchman on the manhunt. Reporter a major road into the town of owls head new york. Closed to outsiders but full of Law Enforcement officers. Every quarter mile or so armed state police stand patrol next to wooded areas looking for any signs of fugitives richard matt and david sweat. More than 2,200 leads have now come in say police. We receive reported sightings each day and we have investigated every one. We will stin to acontinue to ensure the public every lead will be investigated until exhausted. Reporter exhaustive describes the searching. State and federal Law Enforcement members doing great searches in different parts of Franklin County where owls head is located. Dna samples from the killers were found in a cabin in the wood and understandably many owners and guests of others in the woods are staying away while the searching is going on. When we walked up to this cabin we didnt expect to find anybody. But we found this man. A lot of people have left their cabins. Al bought the vacation cabin in Adirondack Park years ago and is retired and lives here permanently. Do you feel safe you are here in the middle of the search zone for the two killers . Yeah. You are not going to leave . No. How come . No reason to. The 81yearold lives with his 141 pound dog yoda and says odds are tiny that else stayees would seek his cabin. He is armed. Shot gun. Deer rifles. Reporter al mossy believes the killers wont navigate without of the wilderness without Police Seeing them. He is convinced they will be captured though it is taking some time. Something police are addressing. Time is always a concern. It generally works against the police in the immediate response. But it works typically for Law Enforcement, long term as we begin to coalesce around the search area bringing in more partners. Al mossy does say his 79yearold girlfriend is scared. So theyre spending the nights together for now. But he told her. Im not changing my life for this at all no. You are not the least bit uneasy . No do i look it . No he does not. Do authorities think matt and sweat could not be in this area . Police believe theyre still here. Thats why there are more than 1,000 federal, state, and local Police Forces on the streets. Theyll continue to be here tomorrow. They anticipate the possibility of a violent end. They are ready for that eventuality. They dont have any proof that these men are armed. No one has the reported a gun being stolen. As we just showed you. Hunting cabins have guns many of them. Many people dont want to come back here and go in their hunting cabins to make sure everything is okay. The sa theiry anar scenario police feel they may have found a gun and be armed and dangerous. Given a lot of cabins are not used all year. Many would not be leaving a gun in a cabin that they abandon for much of the year. They probably wouldnt. But the scenario that a lot of Police Officials could be happening here is that the guys are going into many cabins because theyre trying to find a gun. If they get lucky and find a gun, then that would make them concerned. Got it. Gary appreciate the reporting. A lot to talk about with the man who led the hunt for eric rudolph. First, lets talk about gene palmer now charges being brought against him. What does that tell you . Does it raise more concerns what was going on and the security in the prison . It really does. I think the best you can say about the prison. It was loosely run. More like a prison camp than a maximum security prison housing murderers on death row and severing life sentences. It really is shocking to see how loose this prison was run. Somebedody who killed a police officer, dismember and tortured someone else being on an honor block, allowed behind the catwalk, giving gifts to the guard. Raises a lot of questions. About the manhunt itself there is now, there is evidence about a bloody sock was found. It is hard to tell much from that because we dont know how much blood there were there was on the sock. Is it just from a blister . It would be totally understandable there would be a bloody sock after spending several days out in the wilderness. Yeah i dont think theyre going to focus too much on that except again, maybe get some dna off that just to confirm some things. I think their assumption is theyre on foot at least. Whether theyre barefoot, not barefoot whether they have the proper equipment, they probably dont. I think they have been improvising and making things up since they popped out of the manhole. Once they got flushed out of the cabin it became more exaggerated shall we say. And i think their desperation level is probably going up incrementally as the days go by. You see no sign indication that theyre getting outside help somewhere. Not at this point. It doesnt, there is no indications i have seen that theyre getting outside help. Maybe they have a cell phone, but it would be really suicidal for somebody to try to break through the perimeter and come help them. So theyre really helpless even if they have a cell phone. When somebody looks at eric rudolph who was able to spend, five years on the run. It was interesting last night i think it was, you were saying he stayeden a enin the same Geographic Area for all that time. What allowed, what enabled him to do that that these guys might not be able to do . Whats the difference between them . He knew the area very well. He would disappear for weeks at a time. And he would go up into the, the National Forest. This was the very densely forested National Forest area. He would set up hides in places preposition food. He had multiple locations. We saw, personally saw at least three locations he preprepared. He placed sources of food. He w