Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20150801 : vimarsan

CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 August 1, 2015

The piece of debris that left for france, this wasnt just the normal process of getting an item on to plane, i understand . Reporter no, absolutely not. This had to be dealt with so delicately. Because anything and everything on that debris, any compromising of the integrity of that debris can have an impact on the investigation. So it was wrapped very, very carefully to preserve as much as possible for the investigators. We actually got to see some of that when it was lowered into the crate, it was lowered with a police escort. People standing, watching, making sure everything was done exactly as it needed to be. And there is an ongoing search right now for any other items that might be possibly from the plane . Reporter the search does continue. We had Police Helicopters flying overhead for most of today, and actually for most of the past few days, because the working theory that investigators have is if this is indeed mh370, that countercurrent that brought it could possibly be bringing more. And they also want to get a sense of the pathway of that current, because if this is mh370, then were sitting right here on what could be the focal point of a renewed search effort, a renewed search parameter, that weve taken reunion island, but also madagascar, and possibly all the way down to that southeastern coast of africa. Its incredible to think that this could finally be the answer, at least partially an answer to about what happened to flight 370. Teams from the ntsb and boeing are also headed to france, where the debris is going to be examined to participate in the investigation. Our Senior International correspondent, fred pleitgen, is in toulouse. He joins me now. So what kind of timetable are we looking at before we will know for sure whether or not this is from 370 . Sooranderson, its not going happen as fast as some people would like it to happen. The part will get here possibly saturday night, maybe sunday morning, but the analysis of that part will not happen until wednesday afternoon. The reason for that, this is not only forensic work theyre doing, this is also part of a larger International Criminal investigation. So what you have here is you have french investigators doing their work, you have malaysian teams here as well, as well as the ntsb and boeing. And so they say they have to get together first, they have to map out a scheme as to how theyre going to go forward. Then were going to unseal the evidence, which is, of course, that piece of wreckage. But they say once they start, they believe that very quickly, theyll be able to find out, first of all, if this is really a part from the a boeing 777 and if it is, indeed, from mh370, anderson. It seems incredible they want to start looking at this thing until wednesday. I would think a lot of the people are already there or will be there, even before the debris is there. You would think they could have these meetings a little bit sooner. What else do investigators hope to find out, besides just confirming whether this piece is from 370 . Reporter yeah, they believe theres a wealth of information they could possibly gather from this piece. This is one of the premiere labs for such analysis in all of europe. One of the things they want to find out is first of all how long that part has been in the ocean, and also, of course, how far it might have traveled. These are all things they might be able to glean from analyzing the metal of the part, but also taking it apart, looking at any sort of serial numbers and the like. The other thing this lab has specialized in, anderson, is to see whether this part came off of the plane in midair, possibly from an explosion or something similar, or whether it only came off on impact. These are all things theyre trying to find out. They say, of course, the Big Questions that need to be answers even though this part is there is first of all, what happened to mh370 and also what happened to the rest of the plane. Fred pleitgen, thanks. Joining me now, richard quest, cnn safety analyst, and former faa accident investigator and inspector, david soucie, and david gallow. He coled the search for air France Flight 447. Richard, first of all, before we go to the magic wall here, are you surprised that theyre not going to actually examine this thing until wednesday . Of course theyre going to examine it beforehand, theyre just not going to, basically, formally declare that theyve got a result or anything until wednesday. But everybody gets that. Everybody dribbles into toulouse over the next couple of days. The piece doesnt get there until sunday if ntsb, boeing have to get there. The malaysians have to get there, everybody else to look at it. Theyll be looking at it sooner, but wednesdays the day for the analysis. Lets look at what we have here. You have a couple of different boards here looking at the currents and the search area. What does this show . What it shows very clearly is that this is the search area and the debris that were talking about, the flapperon obviously went into the water somewhere around here and got caught up in the jar and moved way across to where it ends up in reunion island. Assuming its from 370. Yeah, assuming. The entire discussion has to assume that. And this is why they believe and, david gallow will be able to give a lot more of the nuts and bolts of this, but take this as an overview of what we believe happened. It gets into the water here, it moves across, ends up at the reunion, and we always said, we were told, pretty much from day one, this is the sort of thing that would happen, because of the way the movement of the currents, and youll see exactly why. Take this from the university of western australia. Some of the worlds leading work has been done there. They predicted something virtually to this point. This is their, in 18 to 24 months, were just about there, they said, knowing the rate at which things were moving, knowing the way things were going, they predicted reunion, which is just so they really predicted this. They said, give it 18 to 24 months, it would hit in that area . Yes, they said that because they knew about this. So they knew that once something was in the water here, the Natural Force of the currents would take it in that direction. But, of course, youve got to but whats the chances it could have missed and gone there or down there . Thats why its going to be crucial not just to look at reunion, but look at that long coast of madagascar. And right the way down to the eastern coast of south america and up to there. These are also areas that need to be looked at. David gallow, it is remarkable looking at these currents, that they were able to predict this. Absolutely. Well, theyve done it to a first order, anderson. So details down to the day, not so easy. But the general motion of the ocean, even with the typhoons and the monsoons and all of that, thats very important to the study of climate change, and very important to australia weather patterns. Theyve been keeping a close eye on those currents. David soucie, some people have said, look, this populflapn appears to be in relatively good condition. That doesnt necessarily clarify how or why the plane came down, does it . No, it really doesnt. There are two options that are counteropposed here. Whether it still, questioning did it go in as a ditching or straight down . Theres still too many questions. David, when investigators, you know, get to toulouse and they actually begin to examine the piece of this wing. Whats the first thing they do . Whats the parameters here . Well, you had mentioned before that it takes until wednesday until the analysis is done. Ive been to the laboratory in toulouse when we did the certification of the airbus 380. That particular lab is, were not talking inspector clouseau here, were talking the best in the world at this. So even to get into that laboratory, it took me a day and a half, just to get cleared to go into the laboratory. And i was a federal investigator from the u. S. So, that procedure, every procedure, all the way along the line, has to be taken care of. And the chain of custody, as was mentioned before, this could very well be a criminal investigation still. So the chain of custody and who touches the part, who looks at the part, and they have to wait until every Single Person has that opportunity who has a vested interest in doing so, which is, of course, boeing and the airline, and malaysia and everybody who has that vested interest. So it takes a long time. And as richard mentioned on wednesday is when the analysis goes on after everybody has taken a look at it, it all comes together. David soucie, do they begin to take it apart to look for serial numbers or examine it from the exterior . There will be some disassembly. Therell be two phases. First of all, the identification, if it is really that part from the aircraft. I dont think that will take very long at all. The first investigation will be things about the metallurgy itself. How the brackets were worn off. If it was indeed from flutter in a highspeed decent, that fluter would be evidenced in the way the petal broke. From metallurgic analysis, we can look and see if it was over time, if it had worked its way and then came off, or if it was a sudden, abrupt tear, like it would happen if it hit the water and it would have warped it. So all of those things need to be done through a very precise disassembly of the part. David gallow, can investigators determine exactly how long a piece of metal has been floating in the ocean, looking at whatever marine life or minerals it might have come in contact with . Again, a rough estimate, anderson, probably, especially if the experts and understanding barnacles and the like, but a part of it will depend on the path of that piece that the aircraft took across the ocean. Places in the ocean are more able to be more fertile and things will grow relatively quickly. Other places are a like a desert and nothing grows there. In there is a story. Its almost like a floating science experiment. And theyll have these paleobiologists and the like looking at that, trying to understand what the path was like. David gallow, thank you. Richard quest will stay with us. Up next, whether someone in the cockpit deliberately caused the planes movements before it disappeared. Thats the preliminary assessment from the u. S. Intelligence agencies and led to a lively discussion between richard and miles obrien last night. They are back tonight. Also tonight, the deadly shooting of an unarmed africanamerican man by an officer in cincinnati during what should have been a routine traffic stop. Tonight were taking a closer look at what two of the other officers who were there and what they say happened. Technology empowers us to achieve more. It pushes us to go further. Special olympics has almost five million athletes in 170 countries. The microsoft cloud allows us to immediately be able to access information, wherever we are. Information for an athletes medical care, or information to track their personal best. With microsoft cloud, we save millions of man hours, and thats time that we can invest in our athletes and changing the world. Hows it progressing with the prisoner . Hell tell us everything he knows very shortly, sir. As you were. Where were we . 13 serving 14 service if your boss stops by, you act like youre working. Its what you do. If you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. Its what you do. Is it beating . Over your heart. Good then my nutrition heart health mix is for you. Its a wholesome blend of peanuts, pecans and other delicious nuts specially mixed for people with hearts. Planters. Nutrition starts with nut. Welcome back to breaking news. Debris that could be from Malaysian Airlines flight 370 is on its way to france to see if it is from the flight that disappeared nearly 17 months ago. Separate from that investigation, as weve been reporting, a preliminary assessment from the u. S. Intelligence agencies suggests that someone in the cockpit deliberately caused the planes movements before it disappeared. That doesnt necessarily mean it was a nefarious purpose. We simply dont know. So, the question, though, is was the technology on the plane disabled, and then did it continue to fly for hours after that . Joining me again, cnn aviation correspondent, richard quest. Also with us, former ntsb board member, and pilot miles obrien. So richard, this is a picture on the big board, the Electronics System of the akarr system. Its the computerized system that allows the aircraft to communicate information about engines, its control surfaces, all the way down so the Inflight Entertainment system working, what date youll be arriving at. Acar standing for going out of satellite. Here is something known as the eand ebay. The electronics bay, and its literally outside the cockpit. Its outside the cockpit on the floor. You put a ladder down and come down to the in ebay. Its just besides first class by the front galley. The important thing about this is, until now, Many Airlines have not kept it locked. So you could hoist up the carpet, welcome the ebay, straight down the ladder. Did you say hoik up the carpet. Yes, hoik up. I dont know. Ill send you the definition. Back to the i digress. And here you have all the avionics. Think of this as the brain of the aircraft. Everything from the tclass collision avoidance. So the acars was disabled . Well, it was disabled, you can go down in the menus in the cockpit. So someone would not necessarily have had to go down into no, but the thinking might have been by some people that someone got into the ebay or stowed away and once youre in here, its a pandoras box. These are the Circuit Breakers for the radios, over here, and theres also, interestingly, some there are some other devices and oxygen bottles in the bay, which also people have talked about. The acars disabled after the good night was given . Before. Well, we dont really know. At 1 07 is the last official acars transmission. The next one should have been about half an hour later. It never happened. So they believe somewhere after 1 07 it was disabled. So, john, is there any reason why a pilot or someone from the flight crew would actually go down the stairs into this part of the plane . Not in flight. Although if they are capable of it, its not normal for a pilot to go down into that compartment in flight. And miles, are all pilots trained to use this equipment . Do pilots know how to disable this acars system, or is that something engineers and mechanics on a plane would do . No, this is in the realm of engineers and mechanics. And that room, the pilots are not trained to go in there. The door is open, which is a huge security achilles heel on this particular kind of actor. The airlines can order a lock kit if they want to, but theres no regulatory mandate for that. The pilots themselves are not trained to go down there. Why the door is open, i guess if there was some sort of system failure that required them to get to a Circuit Breaker down there, they would, in fact, have access. But, john, wouldnt it make sense to, you know, secure the cockpit door, wouldnt you want to secure this door as well . Certainly. I was surprised they hadnt put the lock kit on it. Yes, you wouldnt want access to anybody down there that didnt belong down there. And john, this intelligence assessment from u. S. Officials, the it is, in fact, correct, and someone did cause this planes movement, it was caused by a human hand, does that entirely rule out any sort of mechanical failure or could both have happened . I dont believe mechanical failure, any of the theories, because it just the dots dont line up and its never happened like that before. So, as an investigator, we would never take that off the table. That stays on table as a possibility, but based on experience and knowledge of the systems, i would say thats very, very remote. And to do what richard said, to run around and try to inop all those systems, the pilots would see the cascading failures quickly. And with all the way to communicate, including the transponder, hitting the emergency code, they would have had enough time to get a message off that there was a problem. Richard, what about that . You still dont rule out mechanical failure. I dont. Theres a couple of oxygen tanks in this that supply the oxygen to the pilots. We know from a qantas flight that an oxygen tank exploded and nearly took everybody out that was sitting above it. And the plane continued to fly, miles, in that particular case of the qantas 747. So to your point, that you said yesterday, youre aware of that particular case. Is it a possibility . I leave it on the table that there was a mechanical issue that overwhelmed the pilots and eventually succumbed the aircraft. Miles, you say no way. You say this was a deliberate act . I do, anderson. And i wonder if we should just think back to june of 2014, when cnn reported from sources at the fbi, in which ive had corroborated myself, that on the captains Flight Simulator system at home, there was a flight path that was nearly identical to what wed been talking about. Why on earth would a captain at home practice a flight on a simulator that leads to fuel exhaustion in the middle of the ocean . I dont know of any pilot that would do that. Pilots like to land on short runways, they like to land on high runways, do all kinds of things. But practicing a circuitous route that leads to fuel exhaustion in the ocean, which cnn has recorded was on that Flight Simulator, i think maybe were overlooking richards chomping at the bit here. Miles, youre being disingenuous in remembering that particular incident, because youve not recounted how the fbi specifically said there is nothing suspicious on that Flight Simulator. You know what, richard. Richard, the fbi people who looked at that are not pilots. And any pilot looking at that would say, that doesnt make sense. Nobody has youre changing a story. No, no, im telling you what i know and what ive heard independently of that. Im just telling you one minute youre quoting the fbi, supporting your theory, and now, when i quote the fbi saying there was nothing suspicious on it, you immediately turn it around and say, oh, no, the fbi dont know what theyre talking about in this situation. Which is it, miles . Im just telling you how they characterize what was a factual account of whats on that computer was inaccurate. And thats because they didnt understand the significance of what was on that Flight Simulator. I think were overlooking a big issue here. John, im not sure you want to get into the middle of these guys, but whats your thought of that being on the Flight Simulator . My thought is accident investigators are driven by the facts. And facts on a

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