Transcripts For CNNW At This Hour With Berman And Michaela 2

Hello, everyone, im john berman. Im michaela pereira. Reaction to a grand jurys decision to clear Police Officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of Michael Brown. Peaceful protests are back on the streets of ferguson, missouri, this morning. Such a different scene than the one we saw last night. The violence, the looting, the chaos that erupted after the grand jurys decision was announced. After their exhaustive review of the evidence, the grand jury deliberated over two days, making their final decision. They determined that no probable cause exists to file any charge against officer wilson and returned a no true bill on each of the five viemts. That announcement and the way that it was announced by st. Louis county prosecutor was tough to hear for many, many people. Michael browns mother became very emotion al tears streaming down her face. Other protesters were also emotional. Some crying and chanting in the streets. Stephanie elam reports on how those peaceful protests quickly unravelled. Reporter peaceful protests erupting into chaos after the announcement of no indictment. What are you saying . That you are that our lives are not equal . Our lives are not worthy . Are not even a day in court . Angry protesters hurling bottles, rocks and bricks in the media. Its that kind of scene out here right now. Protesters attacking police cars, shattering the window of this cruiser as cops run in with guns drawn to disperse them. But mayhem on the streets looking like a war zone. Gunshots ringing throughout the night. Flaming engulfing several police cars, buildings ablaze roaring out of control, some burning to the ground. Firefighters stretched thin with the number of fires erupting and moving out fearing their own safety. Widespread looting, several businesses vandalized including ferguson market and liquor where brown had allegedly stolen cigars before his death. You need to get out of the street or you will be subject to arrest. Police in riot gear and armored trucks firing tear gas and smoke bombs refusing to disperse, forcing demonstrators to run. Anger and frustration about the grand jury decision spreading across the country. Protestiest in chicago facing off with police as they voiced their anger. In new york, massive crowds marching through manhattan, reaching three major bridges with one known arrest. Protesters in times square even throwing fake blood at new York Police Commissioner bill bratton. Demonstrators gathering outside the white house, weaving together on the ground along pennsylvania avenue. In oakland, california, protesters shut down the expressway, lying down inside chalk outlines drawn on the streets. A similar scene in seattle where demonstrators dropped to the ground. The man who simmered tensions this summer urging restraint in the aftermath of chaos. We definitely have done something here that is going to impact our community for a long time. Thats not how we create change. Change is created through our voice and not destruction of our community. Reporter stephanie elam, cnn, ferguson, missouri. Right now we want to get a sense of what the scene is like now on the ground in ferguson, missouri, ana cabrera is outside Police Headquarters there. Were hoping its a different mood and a different food will proceed throughout the day, ana. Literally night and day. We are in one of those hot spots outside the Ferguson Police station, this area crowded with hundreds of people here yesterday. It got heated. You can see behind me there are people up and down the street in this parking lot, throughout this zone who weve seen out here this morning picking up trash and trying to clean up, trying to put their lives back together. You see a will the of traffic moving through here freely. This area was completely blocked off last night but its one of the busier and main thoroughfares in the town of ferguson. We drove up and down this street and it was a sad sight. We saw a lot of businesses that had broken window, had to be boarded up, some of the businesses we know would normally be open right knew even if they werent damaged were r closed with the fear of what could come. Lets pivot to show you the Ferguson Police department which is just across the street. Forgive the lighting, i know the sun is shining into the camera not ferguson Police Officers, st. Louis county Police Officers who are manning this post. We understand the missouri governor has declared that more National Guard will r going to be move in to respond to additional unrest that could foll follow. Any sense from the activist community. Is anyone stepping up and saying not again. Do not do this again tonight. People are just regrouping here. They were calling for calm. They are devastated by the destruction they witnessed. Ana cab rare are on the streets of ferguson. Calm. And i think thats important for everyone to know. People want to know whats happening on the streets what happened last night. Also we are learning key details about what officer wilson told the grand jury. His version of events that apparently influenced the grand jury a great deal. The story according to officer wilson. Our legal analyst and former federal prosecutor sunny hostin is joining us from ferguson. Good morning to you, sunny. We know youve had a chance to look over reams and reams 60 paper of this testimony. Im sure there were things that really struck you in there. What stood out the most to you . Well, there were a lot of things, michaela, that struck me and stood out to me. But id like to back up and put it into context. When a perspective defendant gets in front of the grand jury, which is rare, a prosecutor then has the opportunity to crossexamine that person, to test that persons version of events because you know if youre a perspective defendant, you have incentive to try to put your best foot forward. You have incentive to not be credible, to not be truthful. That is not what happened here, quite frankly, in reading the grand jury testimony of officer wilson. He was not tested by the prosecutor, he was not crossexamined, he was treated with kid glove, he was tossed a lot of softballs and, in fact, the more difficult questions came from the grand jurors themselves. So in light of that, what was striking to me was that his testimony just seemed to be very fanciful. He described what we have never heard before which is that he had been struck with full force two times, the third time he thought could be a fatal strike yet his injuries seem inconsistent with that kind of force, michaela. He also described that he thought he saw Michael Brown reaching into his waistband which is something, unfortunately, that Police Officers often say to justify shooting someone. However, one of the grand jurors asked officer wilson whether he felt or thought that Michael Brown had a weapon and he officer wilson responded that he hadnt thought of that. So when you really take a look at the testimony and the context, it just appears to be very selfserving, quite frankly. And fanciful and just not credible. Nevertheless in my view. Nevertheless, the grand jury seemed to believe it, sunny, and i think that is the key question. Why . Why is it that this grand jury seemed to believe the testimony of officer Darren Wilson . Were going ask that question to a panel of attorneys, not all of whom agree with sunny hostin. Sunny, thanks for being with us. Stick around, we want you to be part of the conversation. Ahead, officer wilson claims Michael Brown charged him. What he said about those final moments before Michael Brown died. Plus, well hear from some of officer wilsons supporters. What they are now saying this morning that hes been cleared of state charges, what theyre saying about the protests, the demonstration, the looting, what they are seeing they want to see happen now. When it comes to medicare, everyone talks about what happens when you turn sixtyfive. But, really, its what you do before that counts. See, medicare doesnt cover everything. Only about eighty percent of part b medical costs. The rest is on you. [ male announcer ] consider an aarp Medicare Supplement Insurance Plan insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. Like all standardized Medicare Supplement Insurance Plans, it could really save you in outofpocket medical costs. So, call now and request this free decision guide. Discover how an aarp Medicare Supplement plan could go long™ for you. Do you want to choose your doctors . Avoid networks . What about referrals . 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And hopefully they will repeat their call for peace and calm because i think Everyone Needs to hear that so we do not have to repeat especially from them. So we dont have a repeat of what happened last night. Officer wilson has not appeared before cameras. Earlier this morning, one of his supporters read a letter officer wilson wrote, a statement, apparently, that comes all the way back from august after the first protest broke out. Listen. I would like to thank all of you for standing up for me during this stressful time. Your support and dedication is amazing and its still hard to believe all of these people i have never met are doing so much for me. He closes with please keep my family in blue in your hearts and prayers. They have all made a sacrifice of their own lives in order to work the excessive hours through the heat and rain to ensure the riots and protests in ferguson were as safe as they could be. That supporter did not want her identity revealed. She says she is being threatened because of her support for officer wilson. Lets talk more about officer wilsons grand jury testimony. There is a lot in it. We have some great legal minds with us. Legal analyst mark omara back from ferguson. Legal analyst and former federal prosecutor sunny hostin. Sunny, its interesting something you were mentioning beforehand about the grand jury testimony p. You were bringing up this point, john, we can maybe pick up from that point in the conversation because we can pick through this as much as we want to, but what it boils down to is that grand jury believed the testimony from officer wilson. You know, i think that clearly the grand jury took his testimony into consideration. We dont know what they believed, michaela, because the bottom line is were not going to hear from the grand jurors, were not going hear the vote, were not going to hear the split, were not going to hear their reasoning. So we need to be care informal saying that they wholesale believed all of officer wilsons testimony because when you look at the grand jury transcript, its pretty clear that they are probing and theyre asking him questions about his testimony. Theyre also asking questions which do reveal a little bit of how theyre thinking, sunny. Mark, im glad youre here with us because, you know, even if they did not buy hook line and sinker officer wilsons story, as sunny suggests, clearly they agree with enough of his line of reasoning not to offer any indictments here. Absolutely. The questions that they asked really incite informal some cases. Do they go to questions about forensic evidence. They asked in great detail about the blood spatter evidence which indicated that Michael Brown walked or may have indicated that walked back or ran back, that there was blood further on down the line, his body ended up being 20 feet closer to officer wilson. What does that tell you . Its probably the most significant piece of evidence that is there because, one, its forensic. Its not somebodys interpretation, opinion or insight on it. Its evidence that completely supports the idea or the fact that mike brown was moving forward at some point and he turned around and came back 25 feet. Whether he ran, charged, walked, stumbled, he came back and that 25 feet is so significant because if for no other reason that helps us get some insight, the grand jury get some insight, into what wilson was thinking as this person whos already been shot is now coming back at him. And, again, whats so interesting hear is to hear the grand jury ask about it because we can see now how theyre thinking. Theyre honing in on this information. Absolutely. And i dont believe that they believed everything that wilson said. I think that any witness, particularly if youre the one under potential indictment, is going to embellish a little bit, polish it up a little bit. They dont need that. They need to get to the heart of what what he said and if it is con thsistent or inconsistent. Had mike brown kept going he would have been shot in the back and it would have been first degree murder. If he came back, that somehow explain ace tway tragedy. Mark omara, stay there, sunny hostin, well be back with this legal conversation in just a moment. Ah, push it. Push it. P. Push it real good ow oooh baby baby. Baby baby. If youre saltnpepa, you tell people to push it. Push it real good. Its what you do. Ah. Push it. If you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. Its what you do. Ah. Push it. Im pushing. Im pushing it real good why did the grand jury in missouri decide not to indict officer Darren Wilson . Well, we have some clues. Poring over the transcripts that have been released of the testimony before that grand jury, lets bring in our legal analyst again mark omara. Also from ferguson sunny hostin i believe is still with us and here with us on set also mel robbins. Mel, youve been going through this trying to get into the grand juries minds here. Looking at the questions they asked of detectives who investigated this case. Yes. So on november 21, which was just last week, i mean, just a few days ago, the detective who investigated this case appeared for the third time before this grand jury and the first thing that struck me is that over the course of almost 100 pages they pepper this detective with questions. It was the questions on pages 87 and 88 and im sure you can find them on cnn. Com if you want to pore through them yourselves the grand juror asks questions of the detective trying to nail down what mark and sunny and you guys were just talking about. This physical evidence of blood and the blood pattern and whether or not this blood pattern establishes the distance that Michael Brown traveled so the grand jury asked this. As far as physical evidence we have the blood on the ground. That was about 21 or 22 feet from where michael ground ended up. So we know for a fact thats a minimum distance he might have advanced and from eyewitness testimony that placed him at the corner of copper creek. So why is this important . Explain that. Its important because as mark has been days all morning, as many legal analysts have been saying, what the grand jury was focused on is whether or not officer wilsons perception of the threat was reasonable. And what they have to weigh is not only the testimony of officer wilson which has some problems with it but for the most part is corroborated by other witnesses, is corroborated by physical evidence. If you have blood evidence that tracks away from the scene, stops, turns around, and comes back presumably dripping from a hand from the wound that establisheser refutdable evidence that Michael Brown traveled back at the officer which which corroborates the officers claim and the witnesses claim that he was charged by Michael Brown when he fired those fatal shots. And would these be crossexamined at trial . Yes. However, this kind of evidence is the most powerful kind of evidence that you can have other than eyewitness we know can be discredited, it can be unreliable. This is the kind of evidence that established something that was at dispute and you see the grand jury granning with this. On pages after they ask more questions after this. Can i interject for a minute . Were all talking about how distance played such an important part in this case and mel, my friend, is talking about blood evidence. Blood splatter evidence, while a science, is much more of an art. What we generally use when we talk about crime scene is measuring distances. If you look at the first grand jury person that testified, that was the medical investigator. He said he didnt take pictures of the crime scene because his camera was out of batteries and he said he didnt measure the distances didnt measure the distances because the distances were obvious. So we need to take that into consideration and thats why the grand jurors were stuck with trying to measure blood spatter as opposed to having accurate measurements and were having to call back all of these witnesses and peppering them with questions. What it really goes to show is that the prosecutors way of presenting evidence to this grand jury was less than transparent, was overwhelmingly confusing and didnt necessarily give the best picture. Now were talking about blood spatter distance as opposed to measurements. Physical blood is not accurate . You cant measure it so youre saying its not accurate. Mel you know and im sure mark omara would agree that blood spatter evidence while scientific is much more of an art. What you need do in crime scenes and what crime scene technicians and medical investigators are supposed to do, they are supposed to measure distances and that wasnt done in this case. My quick response. This isnt blood spatter evidence. This is bread crumb evidence. What this shows is where mike brown went because every photo, he was leaving a drop of blood from the