Kate Bolduan gives a fresh take on todays top stories. Zeldin. This is a very serious allegation. He misunderstands, i think, that his failure to directly sell his own shares is whats at issue. Whats at issue is his provision of nonpublic information to his son and another so that they could cut their losses in their sales. That violates the mail fraud statutes, securities fraud statutes, and there is not really much of a defense if in fact the facts in the allegation are true. Michael, this is sdny indicting a sitting member of Congress Months before an election. We know prosecutors are confident but i mean how airtight does this case need to be . Well, two things. First, we know from the from that which happened during the last 2016 election that youre
not supposed to bring indictments against congressman and other political people within 60 days. So they just sort of snuck under the 60day donor election statute. Just. Yeah. But the fact is that, you treat public corruption in the same way you treat other crimes. When you have evidence of it, you indict as long as it is not within that 60day period. Like all cases you want to make sure that you have evidence sufficient to prove in court your allegations and they have a pretty air tight indictment here, it seems to me. Chris collins deserves his day in court as well. His attorneys will be speaking out. They say his name will be cleared. Interesting to see what happens at this Press Conference coming up in just a little bit. Michael, thank you so much. Thats the legal side of it. Much more to come on that, believe me. But lets talk about the political side of it and fallout on capitol hill. Here with me now, cnn politics reporter and editor at large, Chris Cillizza and nbc
correspondent, phil mattingly. Collins has been under investigation on the hill with regard to this company. This is separate from any Insider Trading question. For a while. What we heard from the congressman to wolf blitzer is a perfect summation of what weve seen from him on capitol hill. He would pitch his colleagues about this. He was the only member he has stepped down in i believe april. He was the only member of congress who is a sitting member of a company board. He was on the committee that oversees what this company does. There were allegations, which he long denied, that he had been involved in trying to write pieces of legislation to aid this company. There were also during the Office Of Congressional Ethics Investigation clear emails and evidence that he was meeting with officials from the National Institute of health to essentially talk about this company, as well. You talk about kind of the long run of people wondering and thinking this doesnt
lead. If you dont follow this day in and day out like the three of us do, even if you do, the idea you could be on a board, and as he proudly touts, be the biggest shareholder in a company that you are on the committee that has some level of jurisdiction over smells fishy. That doesnt mean it was illegal on its face. But smells fishy. If you are Chris Collins, or if you are republicans generally, this is a district just from the politics of it p isnt it like the reddest district . New york . Chris collins was one of Donald Trumps earliest supporters. Everything east of buffalo proper is in this district. Donald trump won it 60 35 effectively. Chris collins was with donald trump because i think he recognized in donald trump a message that had real power in his community. That said, this is a district that its been redistricted a little bit, but this is a
district that a democrat has held, Brian Higgins held it for four terms prior to the redistricting. It was made more republican. If collins stays on and continues under indictment, thats an allbetsareoff type situation. Doesnt mean is he going to lose. But when you are a sitting member of congress there are lots of examples of people who are charged and who win. But there are some who lose. This will take that district and make it more competitive. It is worth noting, though it has nothing to do with these charges phil will correct me if im wrong if you were to name who was the sort of most outfront protrump member of congress, Chris Collins would be in that conversation. Again, that doesnt have to do with these charges but he is someone very closely aligned with trump and that trump movement. What is paul ryan thinking at this moment . If you find out, i would love to know. Heres the interesting thing. When you head into the leadup
to an election, stories like this, whether or not he ends up pleading guilty, whether or not he ends up being guilty, whether he is vindicated, they start to set in to a narrative. What ive heard already from a number of democrats who are seizing on this not because they care about Chris Collins and not even because they think they can win or flip Chris Collins district, but this becomes a data point, that they talk about the people that are in power are corrupt. The people that are in power are part of the swamp. People that are in power are just rife with conflicts. If whats in the indictment is true, it is a pretty textbook case of securities fraud. Heres the interesting element of that. You can actually pick out from his lawyers statement what theyre going for right now. Securities fraud and frankly Insider Trading is rife with grey area. Weve seen Security Fraud indictments and convictions overturned in recent years when it comes it certain hedge funds, things. That nature. You can tell what his attorneys are clearly keying on right now, is that he did not make any
trades. It is worth noting that when this trial failed, when it became public that it failed, Chris Collins got crushed. There were headlines, as the biggest shareholder in this company the stock price plummeted 90 some. Yeah. Afterwards he said, this wasnt a good thing. Theyll clearly defend him robustly and thats clearly the area they are going on but it is a daily indictment which is why they brought it, to be honest. I do think it is worth noting. Michael touched on this. There is a political and there is a legal course these things will travel. Political course remember back to ted stevens. He was indicted alaska senator indicted. He wound up losing that election. Then it comes out later that, well, hes actually been cleared of the charges. So the Legal Process and the political process do not always line up. The political process can hurt you even when the Legal Process remains in progress. I will also say about stevens, a very different Political Climate then at that moment in time. Thanks both very much. Also breaking this morning, the president s lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, telling cnn that trumps legal team plans to issue their response today about a possible sitdown with Robert Mueller. This Cat And Mouse game you just cant get enough of it. What questions will they answer . What answer will they not . Will we find out . Well see. Plus, former manafort associate rick gates getting grilled in court again today after admitting to lying, stealing and cheating, even on his wife. Has gates lost his credibility . Who had a good day in court yesterday, whos having a good day today . Well find out. Your brain. With an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in Clinical Trials to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. We commit to being open, taking responsibility for the problem, and fixing it. This begins with new leadership, and a new culture. And youre going to see improvements to our service. Like enhanced background checks, 24 7 customer support, better pickups, and ride quality, for both riders, and drivers. Youve got my word, that were charting an even better road for uber, and for those that rely on us every day. More Breaking News this morning. Cnn learning that President Trumps legal team, led by Rudy Giuliani, plans to respond today to special Counsel Robert Mueller about the Cat And Mouse game that has become the possibility of the president sitting down for an interview with the Special Counsel. Mueller had offered the president an interview that included questions about possible Obstruction Of Justice. Rudy giuliani made clear in an interview with the Washington Post that he was not comfortable with that but, of course, every day is a new day. What could they be countering with now . What is giuliani saying . Cy offis he offering up any det . Hes not offering up any details. The fact that the negotiations are still ongoing, no one has sort of set any limits right now or has closed off the options here. It is essentially a Counter Offer to the Counter Offer to the Counter Offer. Right . As you said, we keep playing this Cat And Mouse game. Ultimate question is going to be what is the president going to do. Is he finally going to sit down with the Special Counsel. I think its been very clear and Rudy Giuliani reiterated this this morning to our dana bash that they want to limit the obstruction questions, the questions about the firing of the fbi director, the former fbi director, james comey. The questions surrounding whether or not he tried to influence the fbi investigation to his former National Security advisor, michael flynn. This seems to be the key issue for the president and his attorneys. They are trying to limit the Special Counsel, Robert Mueller, the fbi, in asking any questions surrounding that. Obviously the question of what will the president finally do, we dont know. I guess we will wait to see what the Special Counsel how the Special Counsel responds to the attorneys. But essentially all of of this is still a backandforth, and as you said, a catandmouse
game, and it continues. And just continues. Not the end of this. Great to see you, shimon. Former federal prosecutor, shan wu. Giuliani says the president would be open to agreeing to answer questions on Obstruction Of Justice even though he wasnt comfortable with that idea a couple days ago. As long as the questions arent this is what he told dana bash arent, quote, unquote, Perjury Traps what does that mean to you . Thats a good question that could mean Different Things to different lawyers. Per perjury trap is this notion that if you, as the prosecutor, already know that the person youre questioning has given an answer, or you have information that has them locked in, and you also have a pretty strong idea theyre going to lie about that, thats the perjury trap. It is not a perjury trap to have an session and ask questions you
dont know the answers to. Thats not a perjury trap. Thats giuliani saying that hes worried about Lis Cliehis Clien likes to speak off the cuff, go off subject and lie. So hes worried hell talk himself into a perjury trap. Perjury trap su already have the info, you know the persons going to lie and you already know how to close that trap on them. Im so confused. But you did such a good job on that one. But on the most basic level, would Robert Mueller agree to Something Like this . I just dont see i dont see a universe where you say, okay, no Perjury Traps, lets sit down now. Because no selfrespecting prosecutor is going to agree that they are setting a perjury trap. Thats exactly the point. Theyll say we want the truth, we want to ask you questions. Of course there is no perjury trap. Just have your client tell the truth. Thats just spin on giulianis part. They could negotiate parameters of these events or timeline are
offlimits. But the general concept of a perjury trap is quite meaning l meaningless, actually. If this is what giulianis going back with, do you think they are any closer or any further away from the president actually making a decision or being questioned by Robert Muellers team . The only thing they are closer to is giulianis plan to drag things out closer to the midterm elections if thats what they go back with . Well. Stand by to stand by. Shan, actually stand by. More coming in on a very different yet related topic. Stick with me. Rick gatess just finished testifying in the first trial to come from Robert Mueller investigation. The star witness in the fraud trial of President Trumps former campaign chairman. The star witness admitted to lying, cheating and stealing in a brutal Cross Examination. Cnns joe johns is outside the courthouse of Paul Manaforts trial with the very latest. Joe, what is the very latest . Well, as you said, it was
testimony that spanned over three days of brutal Cross Examination and the final questions for rick gates, from both the prosecution and the defense, really sort of went to his credibility and truthfulness. Both sides asking questions about that. Probably the most interesting question that came out of it, as we know, gates testified yesterday that hed had an affair and that sort of played in to how he used money that came out of lying and cheating. Well, today the defense counsel, kevin dowling, asked gates whether he had four four Extramarital Affairs in the recross. And before he got a chance to answer, the judge brought everyone to the bench and they had a discussion about it. Downing made the point that he was asking that question because he wanted to know whether gates
had lied to the Special Counsels office. If he had lied, that could at least potentially invalidate the Plea Agreement he has to testify. So the judge did not allow that question in and when it was reasked, it was reasked in terms of have you had a long i should just read this to you quickly before we go. Does your secret life span over many years . And gates said, yes, ive made many mistakes over many years. That question did not get answered about the four Extramarital Affairs. This thing got nasty really, really fast. Moving at breakneck speed. Shan wu, for a brief period of time you represented rick gates. Shan, does it surprise you how things went down with this Cross Examination of gates . Not really. As usual, im not speaking from
any confidences or privilege material. Just as a spectator watching this. One would expect that Kevin Downing would bear down as hard as he did. Thats a classic way to cross examine a cooperating witness. I think the big Strategy Question is, should the prosecution have tried to take the sting out of the affair by bringing it up ahead of time the way they did by having rick disclose his trying to steal or his actual stealing from manafort. By not doing that, it gives the defense a little bit of an i gotcha moment which they really followed up on. From their point of view, really getting to ask that question does a lot of damage even without the answer to it. Thats what i was going to ask. Even if they threw it out there and then they were pulled to the bench and werent able to get the answer, it is still out there. Right . Had. Yeah, its still out there. The questions themselves are not evidence but for the effect on the jury, thats already out there and it will be interesting to look at the transcript and see whether the prosecution tried to object or whether judge
ellis, as he has been prone to do, was taking care to make sure that he kept things on the straight and narrow and they didnt go too far afield. Judge ellis is very interesting to watch throughout this and listen to throughout this trial. Lets talk about him maybe tomorrow. Shan, thank you so much. A lot of Breaking News coming in this morning. More Breaking News. Senator rand paul announcing he has personally delivered a letter from President Trump to russian president Vladimir Putin during pauls visit to moscow. Cnns manu raju is in washington with much more. What can you tell us about this letter . This actually came about after multiple discussions between President Trump and rand paul. I have been told by a source familiar with the matter, kate, that paul and trump had discussed this matter for some time about these meetings that rand paul was planning to have in moscow. Now paul as a member of the Senate ForeignRelations Committee had planned to travel to russia, meet with senior russian offici