National committee ryans preeb us. He said he quote should be ashamed of himself because he knows whats going on. Trump was talking about the rigged system that he believes led to his loss in colorado not by apopular vote but by a state convention of delegates. He admitted that the Republican Party does not want him to be the republican nominee. I know its stacked against me. We had a lot of delegates and they were not heard because it was controlled by the rnc. They changed the rules a number of months ago eight months ago. Well thats not very long ago. But you had a long time to prepare a better organization. They saw how i was doing and they didnt like it. You are saying you dont think the rnc wants you to get the nomination . No, i dont think, i really dont. You think they are actively working against you. I dont see it. Its not like i have 15 miles of proof. So that was trump last night on cnn. Here is the response from you in ryans preeb us via twitter. The process has been known for a year and beyond. It is the responsibility for the candidates to know it. Complaints now, give us all a break. Once again an unprecedented president ial election breaking the mold. The frontrunner republican president ial candidate is in a fight with the rnc fewer than 100 days from the national kron kengs. Lets go to a man who served as the chairman for the Republican National committee in 2001. He is also a member of this crop of candidates here who would have liked to have become president. He is a former governor of virginia. Governor gilmore, nice to see you. Thank you, brooke. Nice to see you. Have you ever seen anything like this shaping up, this sort of war between a candidate and the party . No, i havent. I think that mr. Preeb us is not going to be able to control this. This is being controlled by the primary process. And trumps that done very well in the primary process. I dont think this is the problem that preebs has created or the rnc created. They created a lot of other problems but not this one. I want to come back to that in second. I understand you have said you truly believe that donald trump will ultimately hit that magic number and arrive at that nomination. Tell me why you think that. Im guessing but he has done very, very well. He is the leader by a lot. I thinks he going do well in his home state of new york. My view is that based on my experience, if you get into the convention with a broad most of the delegates, you are going to be able to negotiate your way all the way across the top. But who knows . Cruz may be close enough to be able to deadlock the convention, together with rubio and kasich and all those guys. And it could end up very interesting is. Hang on governor. You say most of the delegates. Lets say this is whovsly the what if game. If donald trump on that first ballot comes within 100 or 50 delegates, do you think they will give it to him . Ive talked to those who say no way the rules are the rules. The rules are the rules. And the rules say donald trump can go out into the delegates and the person who is the most likely candidate can actually begin to make the deals and negotiate his way to the extra delegates to get there. This is just my guess. It could be the rest of the way it comes out different. But thats my hunch. Knowing the process as well as you do, is there truth to what donald trump has said, the fact that he is arguing the system is rigged . No, i dont think so the system is rigged. I think look, i have a great deal of issues with the rnc about the primary process, about their interaction with the Network Television people, about the outsourcing of the debates. Im on the record that i have got real problems with. That i dont think they have rigged the rules. The rules are the rules. Now its going to get real interesting when we get to the convention and they try to change those rules around. I dont think either cruz or trump want that. If they do that, then thats going to create some sense of anger in the convention. Its going to be an interesting convention for you guys cover. I agree. Im sitting next to a couple of people who would nod their heads as well. Straight up, do you think bridges have been burned here . Yeah. I think that the process has made it very, very hard because of the way that this has gone. I think that the bridge to the presidency has been burned down. But on the other hand, Hillary Clinton is so bad, and you know, if you talk about a bridge being burned down across the river, theres something down in the river, and thats an alligator, its called Hillary Clinton. Hillary clinton is the alligator in this metaphor. Yeah shes the alligator. We have got to figure out how to get across this river even though the bridge has been burned. She is the one who really shouldnt be the president of the united states. Her Foreign Policy is terrible, her sbe grit is terrible because of the email, because of the clinton foundation. She should not be president of the united states. Im doing everything i can do to make sure virginia gets in the column in november. I understand. Those are talking sides. A lot of democrats would disagree with you. I feel that way. I dont have any talking points. I just feel that way. I believe you governor. I believe you. Final question, wild question. I know paul ryan was saying yesterday ultimately no matter how many ballots this comes down to in cleveland, you know, please, vote for someone who is actually running for president. Tuesday the possibility of Anyone Running governor gilmore on any of those ballots. I ran because i thought i had better policies than the other candidates. At the end of the away the situation developed in such a way that i could not be the nominee. I dont expect to be the nominee. But i do hope to have a chance to go to cleveland so i can play a constructive role. We hope to see you there. Governor gilmore thank you so much. Lets talk about the conversation i just had with the governor. Joining me now, david cat knees. Jackie cue sin itch is with us as well. Also dana barb. Great to see all of you. Anything from that jump out at you . This is why you are who you are because you just did a great job deciphering the Hillary Clinton alligator bridge metaphor. This is why they pay you the big bucks, brooke baldwin. Look, this is a very, very challenging situation. For the chair of the rnc to be doing public battle, to have to tweet back at the frontrunner i mean its kind of crazy if you take a step back and there is a twitter war going on with rnc chair and the frontrunner of the Republican Party . The one thing they are not saying publicly in senior republican circles is that perhaps this actually could cam back to bite trump a bit more than he expects with the very people that he needs to vote for him in these various states, his delegates. How do you mean . Because if you say, the establishment is against me, that obviously plays very well to the base he already has. Yeah. But the people who are the grassroots who are wanting to come to the convention, running to be delegates, they are in many ways the establishment within their precinct. Its alienating. Yes. Exactly. This is the problem. There are two parallel campaigns going on. In the primaries, the popular vote is becoming less and less important. Trump hasnt articulated this in the best way, but i think thats his case. The rules arent rigged but they are looking byzantine, archean, complicated when a state like colorado never hold an open primary, but you can just go into the state and grab delegates. Its not rigged but it looks insidery and not very democratic. Heres the thing thats disingenuous of the rnc. The rules can change on the eve of the convention. The state by state rules are set. But they can change the rules of who can be put in the nomination on the eve of the convention. When more and more people fine that out, thats going to be trouble for the party. They are ted cruz and donald Trump Delegates on the rules committee. Thats why they are allowed to change the rules because the argument is these delegates shouldnt have to be governed under the mitt romney rules. Its going to be stacked with their people. Could there be more cruz or kasich people than trump people . Sure. But thats their job to make sure their people get on the rules committee. There is so much the unpack here but the bottom line is we wouldnt be having this conversation if trump was able to get to 1237. Its the next step thats going to be hard for him. If hes able to lock this down, he wouldnt have to worry about these cruz delegates. No. Its exactly right. And i think that you know, it is complicated. Look, people follow sports and they understand rbis and they are going to understand this. Right. So the what is going on as we speak are the delegates are being selected at a state level, right . What jackie, you were talking about, the rules committee well there is a rules committee of the rnc. Which the is the all powerful, can change the rules in any given election. And then there are the people who are nominated for what you just said, to write the rules that will govern the upcoming convention. The argument that people at the rnc make, and they have a valid point, is imagine if we didnt rewrite the rules every time. Imagine if we said no, sorry, donald trump, ted cruz, whoever, you are going to have to live by the rules mitt romney decided he wanted. But its odd to make the rules of a convention after you have gone through 50 primaries and say rules like you need to win eight states. What if your strategy is im going to win ten states and they change it on the eve of convention and they make it 12. That was ron pauls argument last time. This is what they are saying, this is how it as always been. This year it matters. It never mattered before. This year it matters that they are going to change the rules on the eve of the convention. I have asked a number of people, gotten different answers the whole bit about hitting 1237, and the fact we are getting in the weeds and talking about the rules and rewriting the rules. Is it possible the governors point, if trump on the first ballot maybe doesnt get to 1237 but gets so darn close and he does deals and negotiating to finally get the final 50 or 20 is that do you think thats the way it will go because the people will want to avoid the mess that could ensue or no . I think they are going the try to stop trump. If he is one delegate short there will be an antitrump movement because people are that passionate. They have not taken the easy way in any of these steps. There is no way they are going to make it easier once they are in cleveland. It will be fascinating for all of us to be there. Make sure you watch tonights town hall with ted cruz and his wife heidi. And an cooper will be hosting. That is tonight at 9 00 here on cnn. Ben carsons closest aide getting balboaed by black leaders today. This is a big deal for his comments about playing the race card in this current election. Well play you what he said and how it was received in that room. Also reports of harassment and a hit list involving delegates on both sides of the political aisle. Hear what is happening behind the scenes there. And a secret meeting at trump tower. Find out who went inside to meet with trump. One of, apparently, his biggest enemies. You are watching cnn. Heres the plan. 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Hillary clinton also has the endorse mental of the cbc, the congressional black caucus. Butted a todays National ActionNetwork Convention to fiery criticism moments before the former secretary of state took to the podium, Armstrong Williams, he was ben carsons Business Manager, issued this charge to black voters. We sit here you hear the race speeches because they feel thats what you want to hear today. Everything in america is not always about race. Make these people earn your vote. If its donald trump, so be it. If its Bernie Sanders, so be it. Do not allow the kling clips and the establishment to waltz in here and wave their hand and everything is okay. Let them earn your vote. Okay . I dont mind the hiss because you know the truth when you hear it. Make them earn your vote. You can talk about race. They play the race card, too, as they did in South Carolina against barack obama. Dont get caught up in the short memory. This is a business. They will say whatever they need to say and do whatever they need to do to get elected. Lets begin there. Jeff zell eny, dana barb, and donna brazil. Donna brazil. I heard you chuckle. Let me begin with you. Apparently there were multiple rounds of balboaing and hissing of Armstrong Williams as he did what he did. You laugh, why . Every four years my black friends and i believe that the reason black voters turn out to vote for a democrat is somehow or another weve been duped. No. There is a history. There is a history with black voters. The clintons have a history with black voters now. There is always a history. There was a history when Jesse Jackson ran in 1994. And he went out and registered millions of black voters. And there is a history when barack obama goes out and competes for black votes. Black voters are like any other voter in this society. We wanted to courted, respected, and we want you to earn our vote. So this hearsay that somehow or another democrats walk into the black Community Two weeks before the election and say hey come out and vote, thats crazy. Its ludicrous. As we speak, not justsecond secretary clinton, but also senator sanders they are out there competing for these votes because they know they will make a difference. Let me say this. As black women, im so proud of the fact that we register in larger numbers than any other demographic group, and we vote because our votes are important. Im glad to see that africanamerican voters are out there competing, winning elections and running for office. Sorry armstrong, you have a lot of homework to do. We know that secretary clinton came out on the stage a couple of minutes after that happened. Did she address any of that or roll on . She did address it. She said, look, i mean democrats and politicians of all sprips cant just come here and expect to win the black vote. We have to earn it. We have to have policies that earn this vote. She has been talking about race more in this Campaign Recently than i remember her doing. And some of it has come to her doorstep with the black lives Matter Movement and other things. Flint, michigan. Right. And she said that, no, we need to earn the votes. Ly has some policy prescriptions as well. This is one of the things that really propping up and elevating her candidacy this time around. The Diverse Coalition of voters is keeping her in front here. Thats why she was there today. Its why she makes a lot of these appearances. Its different time, though, than when her husband was on the ballot, as weve seen over the last week or so. The conversation is different. But donna is right, the history is there. Thats why she will win overwhelmingly the majority of the black vote. I agree. And the irony of what Armstrong Williams said is that the competition that Hillary Clinton is now getting for the democratic nomination is forcing not just her, but Bernie Sanders to try harder to earn the africanamerican vote, to earn every vote in the democratic primary process. But particularly the africanamericans because of what you said, because she is really relying on that group to propel her. I mean, there is a reason why she does well in the states that have the big black urban populations. Its because they ten to gravitate towards her this election cycle. Not in 2008. And she has to work on that. On that, let me switch to the delegates and the super delegates and the reports of some of these super delegate hit lists on line, and that some sanders supporters are threatening Hillary Clinton supporters. Im looking at you, super delegate, and im wondering, have you gotten any phone calls . Have you been threatened . I mean you havent decided or said first of all, do i look like somebody you really want to threaten . No. No. You know what, i can give love and i can accept it. What i will not accept is have it reole and hate. Super delegates are part of the process. If you take us out, its like taking the rue out of a gum ball. Party leaders decided they wanted to have Party Leaders and elected officials to have role in the process. We are part of the process. You cannot remove us from the