The latest news from around the world with hosts John Berman and Poppy Harlow. New york saying a crime is not a crime. What is going to be next . The skys not blue . Red is not red, an apple is a banana . It is just a bizarre world. And if thats a defense and thats what theyre going to put forward we are in for a crazy ride ahead. We may already be in one. Jennifer, to you. I just had last hour on a former law school classmate, good friend of rudy giuliani. Hes a former Assistant Prosecutor in watergate. He was just with me. He said that the fact that there is not an official Cooperation Agreement, at least that we know of maybe it is under seal between Michael Cohen and muellers team in the Southern District on this suggest that maybe the Southern District and muellers team dont even need Michael Cohens testimony and that could be a problem for the white house. How do you see it . Well, it is very interesting that Michael Cohen doesnt have a Cooperation Agreement here. It means that they havent been
able to reach that agreement, either because Michael Cohen in the end decided that he didnt want to be a cooperator, or because the prosecutors decided they didnt want to use him because maybe credibility issues or they didnt need him. So that could be it. It is very unusual for someone to plead guilty with a regular Plea Agreement, then become a cooperator later. So i dont expect at this point he will. Hes pled guilty and hes going to take his time and move on with things. They could still subpoena him for his testimony if they want, but it sounds like he wont be joining team usa. How, joey, likely is it, do you think if you ascribe to the belief that a sitting president the precedent that a sitting president cant be indicted. How likely is it that the Southern District of new york will not challenge that assumption and try to indict him . I think it is likely. Just backing up just a minute. I think that he is a cooperator. I just want to be clear about that point because i think it is
critical here. Implicit in his allocution that is when you allocute to a crime, what you are doing in court is you are giving an indication of what you did wrong. The element of finance Campaign Finance doesnt involve an element of directing and coordinating. I think implicit in his actual Plea Agreement is the cooperation because us that how he pled. Having said that, in terms of what the Southern District would do, i think we already know from mueller regarding the department of Juice Tis Guistice guidance because of the political process you arent going to indict a sitting president so leave it to congress. The question becomes, Will Congress have the will, given the development of events yesterday was historic. Manafort down eight counts. Now this information that he supplied. Cohen said basically that the president is a criminal, the president committed crimes. Will congress now have the stomach to go and otherwise investigate in the Midterm Election will have a lot to do
particularly if control changes to the democrats with what happens and if he is actually impeached. Just to be clear, jennifer, if the president did do what Michael Cohen said in his allocution yesterday which is that at the direction of the president i carried out these hush money payments, didnt disclose him, by the way, which would be the crime in it, to pay off a porn star and a playboy playmate. If the president directed him to do that, what kind of crime would that be . Well, its the same crime. The same crime that Michael Cohen admitted to would be the crime that the president could be charged with. As you mention, youre not allowed to take contributions to your campaign that are unreported. Its not the crime of the century, but it is, as weve been talking about, an actual Felony Offense and thats observation actually what the president would be guilty of, the same thing. In addition to what jennifer says which is spoton but in addition to that, conspiracy. With when you agree with another person to violate a law, you have conspired. That is a separate offense under federal law which carries significant jail time. So there are multiple crimes we are dealing with. What i want to know, poppy, is how long could congress sit by and do nothing and at the least, there has to be an investigation into this. Now my big problem here is the republican talking point, well, this is cohens word. This is cohens word. He says that this happened. If there is Documentary Evidence and proof which lanny davis says there is because of the president s own lawyer speaking, i think it means more. If theres hardcore evidence, its a problem. An manafort because the president this morning is playing it the way all of us thought he would, jennifer. Cohen, yes, found guilty on eight very serious felony counts, ten of them mistrial on those. The president this morning writes, a large number of counts, ten, could not even be decided in the Paul Manafort case. Witch hunt. I mean who won yesterday . Mueller on the manafort case . Or the president who sounds like he thinks he did on this. Well, Mueller Won Resoundingly yesterday. Theres no question. The sentence will be the same regardless of how many counts of conviction there were, as long as they got some of those more serious counts, the bank fraud counts, which they did. So there a he no question this was a huge victory for the mueller team here and a huge loss for manafort. Trump can try to play the numbers any way that he wants and, yes, there were ten counts that hung. They could retry them. I dont think that they will, in large part, because of what i said this is 100 a victory for the mueller team. Ploe Paul Manafort is going to prison. We have to wait out the Pardon Question kind of hanging over all of this. But, yes, definitely a win for team mueller and not team trump. Is the language you are hearing from the president this morning praising manafort, calling him a brave man, is that Pardon Language . That is absolutely Pardon Language and it is also the
narrative thats being spun which is that this is a witch hunt, it is just terrible, its ridiculous. Because thaeat the end of the d were going into the political process. And if the American People believe this is all a witch hunt, it is all bad, who ahorri then he survives. Briefly on the issue of who won, this is how it works. The federal government hits you with 25 charges. Right . In this case, 18. If one of those charges you are convicted of, its a loss for you. It is a serious felony. The fact that he was convicted eight times over, these ten other charges not to say theyre not significant, but they are irrelevant in the grand scheme of declaring this a victory. This is a victory for mueller, true and true, over and over. Without question. Just this week, if the truth is not the truth, a crime is not a crime, the sky is still blue. And you are in front of it. I am joey, thank you. Jennifer, thank you so much. If the president is about to give his excampaign chairman a
break, what will the political fallout be . Plus, it is a case that stunned and saddened an entire community and this entire country. Today we could get answers on the death of Iowa College StudentMollie Tibbetts. Were live from iowa. And will he stay or will he go . The fate of ohio states football coach, urban meyer, is being debated right now. The university looking into what he knew about domestic claims against a former Assistant Coach ahead. Liberty mutual saved us almost 800 when we switched our auto and home insurance. With liberty, we could afford a real babysitter instead of your brother. Hey oh, thats my robe. Is it . When you switch to liberty mutual, you could save 782 on auto and home insurance. And still get great coverage for you and your family. Call for a free quote today. You could save 782. Liberty mutual insurance. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. The difference you feel is a night. And day. Feel the difference at our labor day sales event, purchase a tempurpedic luxe, elite, or breeze mattress and enjoy up to 550 off. Or get a Free Adjustable base upgrade. Find your exclusive retailer at tempurpedic. Com. You wouldnt accept from any one else. Why accept it from an allergy pill . Flonase relieves sneezing, itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose, plus nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Its more complete allergy relief. Flonase. The nations largest seniorliving referral service. For the past five years, ive spoken with hundreds of families and visited seniorcare communities around the country. And ive got to tell you, todays seniorliving communities are better than ever. These days, there are amazing amenities, like movie theaters, Exercise Rooms and swimming pools, public cafes, bars, and bistros, even petcare services. And nobody understands your options like the advisers at a Place For Mom. These are local, expert advisers that will partner with you
to find the Perfect Place and determine the right level of care, whether thats just a helping hand or fulltime memory care. Best of all, its a free service. There is never any cost to you. Senior living has never been better, and theres never been an easier way to get great advice. Call today. A Place For Mom you know your family, we know senior living. Together well make the right choice. Going forward, it seems to me that if the president were to pardon Michael Cohen or Paul Manafort, that would constitute an assault on the rule of law. Pretty clear statement there. Thats from democratic senator ron wyden of oregon. Lets discuss with Ron Brownstein and julie pace. What a news cycle, guys. Its only been about 17 hours and a lot has changed. But a lot hasnt changed because it is the same message from the president , as well. Ron brownstein, what do you make of the reaction we are getting from the president this morning, slamming Michael Cohen and calling Paul Manafort a good man, a brave man . Look. It is consistent with everything we have seen from him both in the Mueller Investigation itself and more broadly, in his presidency. It is about mobilizing and consolidating his base and keeping republicans in line. Ultimately as you talked about in the last segment, we talked about a lot in the last 24 hours, unless the Special Counsel or the Southern District of new york want to challenge the judgments of the Justice Department under Richard Nixon and bill clinton so they had some selfinterest in both cases that a sitting president cannot be indicted, this ultimately goes back to congress. What this does, above all, it sharpens the issue for november. Because i think the odds are very low that republicans in congress are going to do anything meaningful between now and then to seriously investigate this. I think it kind of really calls it puts hold on. But you had burr and warner on the senate side yesterday who had the Intel Community saying they want Michael Cohen to come back and testify and answer questions. Sure. On that side. On that side. But i think on the question of Campaign Finance violations, which now we now have the situation we have not had since watergate for the president for all intents and purposes is and unindicted coconspirator. It just raises the question if the house in particular is unwilling to investigate this issue, is there anything that the president could do that could cause them to perform serious oversight . The president if you believe Michael Cohen in his allocution yesterday, there are credibility issues, of course. But i hear thats why he was investigated. Julie, to you. Something struck me this morning
from the new york times. Even the president s staunchest defenders acknowledge privately that the legal setbacks that he suffered within minutes of each other could open fissures among republicans on capitol hill and expose mr. Trump to the possibility of impeachment. How much do you buy that . Have the last 17 hours really moved the needle for republicans in the house if they would ascribe to articles of impeachment . If you look at the initial response from republicans, i think you have to say it did not move the needle. Now we are still in the early hours after both of these backtoback legal decisions. But republicans pretty much seem to be where they were which is that they are looking to the Mueller Report and looking to questions of collusion, saying there is no collusion, trying to make the case that if theres no collusion, then there should be no impeachment. Theyre trying to distance trump from Michael Cohen. Privately certainly republicans express a lot of concern about
the political situation that trump puts them in for the midterms. But at this point they still look at polling and until that polling shows that there is a significant break among trump voters, i dont think youre going to see much of a shift from republicans. I dont think youre going to see them pull away from the president right now. Yeah, ron. I was going to say, youve talked a lot this morning about republicans are reluctant to move on the president because they are afraid of the base and afraid of his voters. There is truth to that but thats not the whole story. Congressional republicans have bought into the political strategy that the president is pursuing for the midterm which we saw again last night with his talk about undocumented, the best way to do that, whether on policy or circling the wagons around the president , they are taking the risk of sending the message to voters who are even ambivalent about trump that they will not provide any restraint or oversight and thats why i think
the past 24 hours matters. It really puts that into relief. That the Republican Congress is basically putting all of their chips on the idea of maximizing republican turnout by maximizing unity and taking the risk that voters who find this uneasy or a threat to the rule of law or just they want more of a check on a volatile president either wont turn out or will be willing to kind of bite their lip and accept this kind of deference to the president. You know, julie, to exactly rons point. Alan dershowitz, constitutional law professor at harvard, hes written a book, the case against impeaching the president. Heres how he put it. Heres what he posited last night on fox news. Some stations are already playing the Funeral Music for president trump. But this is much more complicated, much more nuanced. To that what do you say, julie . Well, its perhaps more nuanced politically. Ron is right, this is really going to come down to a question for congress. I think what democrats are debating right now is what their strategy is going forward. You have people in the party who want to take a really aggressive approach on this question of impeachment and essentially run on that. What you are seeing Democratic Leaders do is try to thread the needle a little bit, be a little more indirect in talk about trying to tamp down a culture of corruption that trump has fostered in washington, try to make this a question of checks and balances. Thats an argument aimed at independent voters, it is an argument aimed at moderate republicans but there the left flank of the party that really wants to aggressively run on impeachment. I do think if democrats take back the house theyll face this debate over whether they have to follow through on that promise if thats one of the reasons that they do take back control. What would be the straw for republicans, ron . Would it be a pardon of manafort . I dont think there is a straw in things that trump can do. I think the straw would be the loss of the house. The predicate to any kind of
serious republicans reconsideration in their relationship with trump is evidence that his approach is hurting the party electorally. As long as it seems to be delivering the things they want in judicial appointment, in taxes, in regulatory like repealing the Clean Power Plan this week while the west is burning with wildfires, as long as thats happening, i think the Critical Mass of republicans will not challenge him and that is the indispensable i think predicate for all of the republicans who are quietly uneasy about the direction hes leading the party, both in terms of morality and in some cases in terms of policy. We are just weeks away from the Kavanaugh Hearings, as well. Thank you, both. Republicans dodging talk. At least right now. About these two bombshells that dropped in the last 17 hours. Democrats are digging in. Is it the right move for them though . Were in a constitutional
mail str maelstrom. And works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. Stick with z