To decide whether the house can compel former White House Council don mcgahn to testify about his former boss, President Trump. What does that mean for officials such as john bolton, who have refused to go in front of the impeachment inquiry. Lawmakers are home for thanksgiving, but impeachment wheels still churning on capitol hill. Have you heard of a vote mid december possible on impeaching the president . Reporter lawmakers are back in their districts this week, but staff very much at work, working through that report, the House Intelligence Committee is planning to produce, to send over to the Judiciary Committee to kickstart the actual impeachment and articles of impeachment process into gear. Adam schiff over the weekend on state of the union with jake tapper did note that other hearings, evidence or witnesses could come to the forefront. As it currently stands, that is not the plan. There are no future House Intelligence Committee hearings scheduled at this point in time. The focus now is on drafting that report and getting it over to the Judiciary Committee. Some things happening this week that are sort of outside the scope of whats happening inside the Intelligence Committee but still super important. Everybody with a keen eye on what happens with don mcgahns case. That subpoena was issued in april. The real reason people care, its the first real test of the white houses absolute immunity theory. If the court rules that mcgahn has to come to capitol hill, that doesnt mean that the flood gates will open for john bolton, Mick Mulvaney or others, but it will give people something to think about and at least the First Court Ruling against the white house on this interesting theory theyve put forward. Theres still some transcripts out there that need to be released that, have been gone over. From a career omb official, that Washington Post story. Omb officials, by and large, have avoided coming in, have avoided listening to subpoena requests. Mark sandy did not. What he says in that transcript will be very interesting to read as we continue to piece together exactly what happened inside the white house with the hold on aid. Jim . Former federal prosecutor and democratic counsel to the white house during the clinton impeachment. A lot to watch. A lot. Although this started before the impeach, don mcgahns testimony. Can the white house claim absolute immunity, as it were, or can they, in your view there is no founding in the constitution for absolute immunity. Thats something that the white house has sort of invented. You think of the white House Counsel and you think of privilege. We think of a lawyer and privilege and privileged communication. First of all, white House Counsel is the counsel for the president , Office Holder of the president. He has his own personal counsel, Rudy Giuliani. Heard of him. You might have heard of him. That is his private counsel. There is no absolute immunity for this person. Also if there was immunity, the president has waved that immunity. He let mcgahn testify many times to mueller. If there was privilege, he waved that privilege. I think thats what the judge will rule in this case. Why thats important for the Judiciary Committee is they want mcgahn to testify about what he told a colleague, a friend, about what trump told him, what he said. I want you to fire mueller. He said mcgahn said to this colleague, i felt like it was going to be a saturday night massacre, recalling nixonian times when thats what happened in nixon times. The Judiciary Committee wants that language, that saturday night massacre language in front of the american public, to set the table for the intent behind President Trump im sorry to the justice. Can that become its own article . Absolutely. Even though its related not to ukraine . Because what the committee would want to do, and youre setting it up as a trial for the senate. Intent is so important in obstruction of justice articles. You want to show a pattern of behavior. It wasnt just that one july call. Its a pattern of behavior. This sets it up like that. So, lets say judge makes the decision to compel him to testify. Right. There are other obstacles that republicans can throw in, appeals, et cetera, takes a while. Of course. How quickly does this move to when the final word is delivered, youve got to testify . What could happen here is an emergency appeal, obviously, would be put in place and the judge herself could say no to that right away, because the judge can see here whats happening. I mean, judges are people too, believe it or not, beneath the robes. They can see, look, if we dont allow this to go forward its not going to happen in time and whats going on, the name of the groun. Brown may be thinking that way. But leon has been take iing due time. I guess from a practical perspective, you know the courts well. Right. Does this practically force one of these witnesses to come forward before the democrats current timeline . It may force mcgahn. The other witnesses like john bolton are looking at this. Does president hold the other witnesses absolutely to be able to testify and say this is what i can stand on . No, it doesnt for sure, but it may open not a flood gate but a trickle gate. Okay. The new gate. The new gate. Lets talk about these emails that the Washington Post is reporting on, after a decision was made to hold back this ukraine aid, there was concern, white house did a little review and were looking for retroactive justification. They were looking for cover. That clearly blows up a gop defense that this came out of nowhere, but legally, can democrats get their hands on those emails for the impeachment inquiry . Theyre certainly going to try to. The white house has said youre not going to get hold of them. Whats more important than that is roll the tape back, as im sure the democrats will do during the trial, and look at all the questioning that was already done. They dont even have to get the tape the emails. Look at all the questioning that was already done during the hearings about the diplomats were peppered with these questions about this is the normal course of business this is just all normal, the holding back of aid. Well, clearly, it wasnt. So as you can see from the emails we now know. So there goes that defense. Already it was already seen to be a farce. Well, lots to watch in the course the next few hours. Lis wiehl, thank you very much, as always. Of course, there are a lot of politics. Political reporter for the times. Lisa, maybe i could begin with you. You have court cases that could go the democrats way, could not. Lets say they do. Lets put the brakes on here because we might still get witnesses that could attest to the president s direct involvement whether its don mcgahn or eventually john bolton. Do you see democrats waivering at all on the very aggressive timeline they have . No. I think for democrats the best impeachment is a quick impeachment and thats the sense that there is in the house, in part, because theres a pretty strong feeling that this is going to be a party line vote, that its unlikely any republican also break ranks and that this process is already then, of course, the process will move into the senate where its likely to run into the the Iowa Caucuses and the beginning of that president ial primary. And i think a lot of people in washington expect that the final verdict will be delivered not in the senate on President Trump but next fall when voters actually go to the polls. So, you know, democrats dont really want to do anything that could mess up their ability to win that election. And theyre worried if this draws out, it could do that. But, jeff, i suppose, Straight Party line vote we all watched the hearings and you heard the comments, moderates like will hurd coming out saying inappropriate but not impeachable, which seems to be a lot of what folks are holding on to here. Politically thats not the best result for democrats either, straightup party line vote. Its also exactly what nancy pelosi wanted to avoid. The things we were watching in the runup to this was the speaker in the months before these actual hearings began, saying you need to have bipartisan support for impeachment. There needs to be can clear evidence. Republicans are taking those words and throwing them back at her, throwing them at the democrats and saying, in these two weeks of public impeachment hearings, you have not moved the needle and you have not found a smoking gun. That will certainly add to the partisan climate here in washington and on the campaign trail. Lisa, ive heard a lot of interesting things on television through the years. This interview with rick perry in the last 24 hours was pretty remarkable in the way that he spoke about the president to a friendly audience i want to play it and get your thoughts. Have a listen. God used imperfect people all through history. King david wasnt perfect, solomon wasnt perfect. I gave the president a pager on those a month ago. I said mr. President , people say you were the chosen one, and i said you were. You are the chosen one. I mean, is that a demonstration of just how far the Republican Party has come to be a party of trump . Well, i dont think thats exactly what the founders intended when they talked about separation of church and state in terms of how a monarchy, but i do think that rick perrys sentiments are reflected in the evangelical community, strongly in support of President Trump and sees him as this imperfect messenger. His personal life isnt exactly where they would like it to be, but he has delivered on many of their top priorities, particularly when it comes to abortion rights and other social issues. I do think that rick perry is expressing a sentiment thats fairly common among some of the president s strongest supporters in his base. Jeff mason, another moment this weekend. Again, it gets to gop being the party of trump. John kennedy defending a baseless Conspiracy Theory regarding 2016 election interference. Ill play that and take a listen. Who do you believe was responsible for hacking the dnc and Clinton Campaign emails . Was it russia or ukraine . I dont know. Nor do you, nor do any of us. The entire Intelligence Community says it was russia. Right, but it could also be ukraine. Russia tried to interfere in 2016. Also, ukrainians themselves tried to interfere also. Theres nothing to back that up. Jeff mason, in the simplest terms, why are senators, smart ones seemingly willing to proffer what we know is russian propaganda . Its a great question, jim. Its hard to answer. Its clear that theyre willing to dismiss the intelligence. Chris wallace was spot on when he responded to the senator saying that all of the u. S. Intelligence agencies believe it was russia, that tried to interfere or did interfere, rather, in the 2016 election. Theyre willing to put that aside. They want, in many ways, to, i think, stick with the theory that President Trump has clearly raised and clearly believes, which has led very much so to this impeachment process because he was seeking investigations and lessoning to Rudy Giuliani when he raised these issues about ukraine. Politically, will that eventually hurt them . Thats also a tbd question. Right now, it doesnt seem to be. And right now its in line with President Trumps strategy of sticking with the base. Until russia interferes again in less than a years time. Lisa lerer, jeff mason, thanks to both of you. Top official fired over what the pentagon says was a secret proposal on a case of war crimes. And a daring heist at one of the oldest museums in the world. Treasures of, quote, incalculable value were stolen there. Suspects are on the run. Well have the latest. Sounds like hollywood. Applebees new sizzlin entrees. Now starting at 9. 99. Billions of problems. Sore gums . Bleeding gums . Painful flossing . Theres a therabreath for you. Therabreath healthy gums oral rinse fights gingivitis and plaque and prevents gum disease for 24 hours. So you can. Breathe easy, theres therabreath at walmart. Theres a company thats talked than me jd power. People 448,134 to be exact. They answered 410 questions in 8 categories about vehicle quality. And when they were done, chevy earned more j. D. Power quality awards across cars, trucks and suvs than any other brand over the last four years. So on behalf of chevrolet, i want to say thank you, real people. Youre welcome. Were gonna need a bigger room. The holidays are here and so is tmobiles newest, most powerful signal. And we want to keep you connected to those you love, with the new iphone 11. So tmobile is giving you an iphone 11 on us for each new line of unlimited. For yourself, or up to a family of four. Keep your family connected, and hurry into tmobile today, to get up to four iphone 11s on us. Only at tmobile. For the holidays you cant beat home sweet home. We go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. With Retirement Planning and advice for what you need today and tomorrow. Because when youre with fidelity, theres nothing to stop you from moving forward. Note this. A republican defended a baseless Conspiracy Theory that ukraine, as well as russia, interfered in the 2016 campaign. Somehow senator john kennedy said we dont know whats true. Thats patentally false. The Intelligence Community said that russian president Vladimir Putin order ed an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the u. S. President ial election. Troll farm, quote, sought to influence the 2016 election by harming Hillary Clintons chances of success and supporting donald trump at the direction of the kremlin. And as fiona hill, the president s own former top russia adviser testified under oath last week, the ukraine Conspiracy Theory itself is russian propaganda. Some of you on this committee appear to believe that russia and its Security Services did not conduct a campaign against our country and that perhaps, somehow, for some reason, ukraine did. This is a fictional narrative that is being perpetrated and propulgated by the russian Security Services themselves. Thats right. Russian propaganda. I wrote a book about russian interference and other aggression the shadow war, how many digital fingerprints tied the act to russia, wellknown to u. S. Intelligence, as a former top nsa official told me the russians didnt even try trito hide. Nicole roths hadh a very personal encounter with crowdstrike, which helped to trace that russian hack and joins me now. Great to have you on, nicole. You cover these stories very closely. Tell us about crowdstrike and what they told you about russian interference. Well, back in 2016, it was pretty clear from the forensics, as you said, jim, that russian actors were to blame. Two groups. Fancy bear and cozy bear, really wellknown to the Cyber Community had left their digital fingerprints all over the hack at the dnc. Now crowdstrike was familiar to me, and many who cover the industry, because the founders who trump has said the company is own by a wealthy ukrainian. Theres no truth to that. It was founded by three american citizens, all who came from mcafee. One of them was born in moscow and now lives in washington and is an american citizen. The other two are american citizens as well. And one of the things that a lot of people dont know about crowdstrike is that while these guys were at mcafee, they wrote one of the seminole reports on chinese Cyber Espionage. It was a big report they did. I think there was a series of three or four reports where they wrote about in quite a lot of detail about just how invasive chinese Cyber Espionage had become in the united states. And at the time, and crowdstrike wont say this, but i know this from my own reporting. At the time, the guys who wrote this, they had named china in the report, and intel that owns mcafee was very uncomfortable with the naming of china for business reasons. Part of the reason they left to go start their own company was to focus intensely on the chinese cyber es pichlt onage program. China and russia could very similar things, election interference, a whole host of cyber maened activities here. A baseless conspiracy we know is russian propaganda, what answer would they have as to why theyre going down this path . Beyond crowdstrike, the u. S. Intelligence community, senator Intelligence Committee chaired by republicans concluded with confidence it was russia and russia alone. What excuse do they have for this . They have not offered a very good excuse. And, you know, let me also point out that the idea that crowdstrike sent a server, the dnc server to ukraine is just a dumb theory, to be honest, because 100 something servers at the dnc that were compromised. It was not just one server, okay . So the idea that crowdstrike sent one server to ukraine is a preposterous idea. And trump said over and over again that they never gave the servers to the fbi. Thats not how it works. The fbi will come in and take an image of those servers, which is basically a forensic copy. They rarely come in and actually remove the hardware itself. They dont need to. As long as they get a copy of whats on those servers, theyre good to go. So, i dont know why the republicans keep propulgating this russian propaganda, other than it fits with this idea that trump does not want to recognize that russia may have helped his election victory in 2016. And republican lawmakers and i say that appear willing to back that kind of psychosis almost for political reasons here i want