Police commissioner was kept out of the loop by the prosecutor. Learning about murder and manslaughter charges against six of his officers. Only minutes before they were announced on national television. In his first interview since freddie grays death, Police Commissioner anthony bats told our evan perez that the charges caught him completely by surprise. I found out that the state attorney was going on and what she was going to present probably about ten minutes before she went on. She gave me a phone call and told me what she was about to do and that she was going on live. She told me what the charges were. What were your first words out of your mouth when you heard that . I dont want to get into that so much. I could say that i was probably surprised, you know by the information that i heard. Batts also admitted his officers were unprepared for the protests and riots that engulfed baltimore. Evan is out front now. An exclusive interview and major, major news there. Finding out just minutes, i believe he told you ten minutes before she told the world. Why does the commissioner think she didnt tell him . Well erin he was being very diplomatic when he said that he thought the prosecutor was simply trying to show some separation from the Police Department. But theres no doubt what you heard just now from him was also a sign of his displeasure. The fact that from a Public Safety standpoint you know he wanted to make sure his officers were ready to see what reaction there was on the streets of baltimore when she made this announcement and to give him only minutes was something that he just did not really find helpful at all. All right, so commissioner batts also in your interview admitted his force made mistakes. Thats crucial because it was that admission when he said for example that should have reached medical help may have emboldened and enabled her to go ahead with charges. What did he say to you about that that there were mistakes made . Yes, he said the freddie gray case certainly set back the department. You know its something hes been working on for a couple years. Hes been here two and a half years and trying to rebuild this department that has problems that go back decades. Heres how he describes the problem as he sees it. There is a lack of trust within this community, period bottom line. Thats going to take healing. Thats going to take us acknowledging as a Police Department not just here in baltimore but Law Enforcement as a whole, that weve been part of the problem. And erin to hear commissioner batts say he knows that he has to go into the community there and rebuild trust, he also has to rebuild trust with the state Prosecutors Office so clearly he has his work cut out for him. Evan perez, thank you very much with that exclusive interview and major headline that he found out just ten minutes before. Joining me now, bill stanton, our political commentator, Mark Lamont Hill also a professor at moore moorehouse and on bempt mpt t. News. And paul martin also a former prosecutor. All the angles of the story right here at the table. Bill youre closest to me. You heard evan reporting that commissioner batts told him he got a call ten minutes before. She didnt decide to press charges ten minutes before. She decided well before that. Are you surprised . Well im surprised, but im not surprised, because i think what were seeing here is law play out but also politics play out. Its highly unusual, the fact that she just gives him a tenminute heads up no chance to be prepared. Its highly unusual that shes not going through a grand jury bypassing that. So all these things are adding up. Not really looking good for the prosecutor in my opinion. And paul youve been on both sides as a defense attorney and also a prosecutor. I know when you were talking to our producer you heard ten minutes. Your initial words were thats disrespectful. That is disrespectful, probably to the commissioner. I understand the nature of why the prosecutor would do it. Listen theres why would she do it . She doesnt trust him, she thought he would leak it. There hey be issues of leaking. She wanted to be the individual to make the statement and not come from some underling or be leaked to the press. Would she have preferred to make it earlier . Im sure she would have. Shes charging them with murder. This is not a small thing to wait on. Thats why i think she should not notify the Police Department. You thought she did the right thing in not telling frankly the guy responsible for peace on the streets afterwards and all these six men and women report to. You think she did the right thing . Absolutely. I think it comes down to the context and the nature of the decision. Had they decided not to tell the officers you give people a heads up. I was in ferguson when they decided not to indict. What you saw was bedlam on the streets. This time they knew. It was like fourth of july in baltimore when they announced there were going to be charges. We saw leaks many people believe came from the Police Department about the nature of the injuries about the guy having spinal injuries and they didnt trust the police. I hear all of you, isnt, paul part of the problem if you want to say now were going to respect the system and have this go through the system that one way to do that would be to not play the same games . Dont wait until ten minutes before . I dont think she was playing games. I think she was afraid about leaks, afraid about the information being decimated in the improbable way. This investigation was conducted by her office. It wasnt conducted by the Police Department. So as a courtesy would she have preferred to notify him earlier . Procedure, but what was best in her situation youre using the word disrespectful, but you understand. What were seeing is a lack of trust. What im hearing is the complete lack of trust. The d. A. s office has no trust whatsoever with the Police Commissioner or its department. So then how does the Police Department trust the d. A. s office . That may come from earlier, from the leaks. I think its a question of how do we restore public trust in all of us if youre the Prosecutors Office. And having too cozy of a relationship between the Prosecutors Office and the Police Department is one of the problems that people have had in the past. This separation i think establishes that. I dont think its disrespectful. And i think this is the opposite of business as usual. Theyre saying were no longer going to do that. Theres also though of course the perception of a cozy relationship. Youre talking about between the prosecutor and police but also between possibly the prosecutor in the case and the freddie gray attorney. Their attorney is a big sponsor of hers financially. Was a chair of her transition campaign. Theres been criticism of that the police union has asked her to recuse herself. She has said shes not going to do that. Heres the question. Did she feel pressure for the charges . From that but also from the people on the street . She didnt have a choseice. She had to charge. I would ask the council, as a defense turn wouldnt there be a problem with a rush to judgment and making such aggressive statements that we will bring the people to justice, just a day after the Police Department brings the report to her office. What should the prosecutor do . The media is saying rush to judgment. We do not know what information the prosecutor had at the time she decided to charge the individuals. We dont know the statements the Police Officers made we dont know the frezic evidence. Im not so sure its a rush to judgment. They may have had to address the situation before further leaks went out. Its unclear whether its a rush to judgment. Theres no reason to believe that it is and im not sure why we would assume it is. Every major shooting like this forget about the local everyday ones that happen all the time im talking about the ones that make the news. Theres a clamor for an arrest for an indictment, and they dont get it. It seems to me shes bucking the trend of most prosecutors. Even black prosecutors. I dont think its race here. She had an boons of evidence that she felt was compelling. Is there fair to say there was racial pressure . If she had not charged, the anger on the street might have been overwhelming and the calculus may have been safer to charge maybe even overcharge but dont let them wait. Dont let there be violence on the streets. I dont know all the evidence but based on what we have seen this isnt fuzzy like michael brown. This isnt debatable as george zimmerman. Its certainly compelling. The guy could run and then he couldnt. He was arrested there was no charge. He didnt have an illegal weapon. Theres no reason for me to believe she was charging for political reasons. Now theyre saying the weapon may have been illegal in Baltimore City but not in maryland. Its still an incident in the stop. They didnt see the weapon and chase him. My point is there is nothing here to make me believe she acted out of politics and not out of a sense of duty. When she says im going to bring these people to justice, thats what youre supposed to do as a prosecutor. The problem is were so used to prosecutors not doing that that we act shocked when they say were going to prosecutor these people and bring them to justice. I applaud your intellectual honestly you believe its not race. I agree with you. You dobt think its race. Her decision not to charge isnt about race. I dont think this is necessarily about race. I think if a cop is bad, hes not a cop, hes criminal and that will play out. What i do think is happening is there is tremendous political pressure. What happens if there is an acquittal . I think there is tremendous pressure and is the Law Enforcement or is the judicial system going to be held hostage based on the court of Public Opinion and the fear of rioting. Before we go and this is part of the problem here theres clearly an issue in this country, but you dont want to adjudicate that through one case. You dont say were going to convict someone, and again, we dont know the facts, but no one wants a Wrongful Conviction because it satisfies people. That doesnt solve people. We havent gotten one here we havent gotten one here we finally deserve justice as if everyone knows the right and wrong answer. Thats a dangerous position to be in. Dont think thats what the prosecutor in this case is doing. Shes evaluating the case for what it is. She charged officers black and white, and i think during the process well find out what the facts, what the circumstances are. I dont think this is the mantra for us to get justice through the last 200 years of being stepped on our necks, to be quite frank with you. I appreciate all of you very much coming on. A great conversation. Thank you. Next breaking news. Were learning one of the gunman who attacked a Prophet Muhammad cartoon event in texas was in contact with isis before. It could be a huge development. And Dave Goldberg was only 47 years old, married to the famous facebook executive Sheryl Sandberg. How did he die in a gym jogging on a treadmill . And Hillary Clinton moments ago calling for a path to full citizenship for undocumented immigrants. The only other woman in the race will be my guest coming up outfront. Listen up. Im reworking the menu. Veggies youre cool. Mayo, corn dogs. You are so out of here ahh. The complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. With nine grams of protein. And 26 vitamins and minerals. And now with. Twice as much vitamin d. Which up to 90 of people dont get enough of. Ohhhhhhh. The sunshine vitamin ensure now has 2x more vitamin d to support strong bones. Ensure. Take life in. Wait, what is that . A new outdoor cleaner from scotts its powered by oxiclean and its chlorine bleachfree so its safe to use around grass and plants. Get scotts new outdoor cleaner plus oxiclean. Clean your outdoor space. Clean it. Ugh. Heartburn. Did someone say burn . Try alka seltzer reliefchews. They work just as fast and are proven to taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. Mmm. Amazing. Yeah, i get that a lot. Alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. Enjoy the relief. Breaking news at this hour. A u. S. Official telling cnn now that two terrorists who attacked a muhammad art exhibit in texas were more than just inspired by isis. At least one of the terrorists according to officials was exchanging messages with a well known isis recruit leading up to the atab. That could be a very significant development. Not just a lone wolf operation but maybe something more coordinated. Isis also claiming today that it was behind what would have been the first isis attack on american soil. An attack the white house today called a terrorist act. Jim sciutto is outfront, and what are you learning . Because this obviously could be significant. We heard about people who, you know are inspired by isis and then they act in the name of isis. This could botentially be getting marching orders from isis leaders. Picture you have have pure inspiration, a lone wolf acting on his own, all the way up to getting command and control from abroad. Were in between, closer to inspiration, but there was connectivity between these two. There was twitter messages, tweeting back and forth between them. There were individual twitter messages from one of the againman talking about the ease of traveling to syria to fight. They were certainly on isis radar screen here and thats why one official describing to me how this is more than just inspiration, more than just a lone wolf acting entirely on his own. Today, isis took responsibility for the garland, texas, shooting. The first attack it has claimed on u. S. Soil. U. S. Officials are now probing connections between one of the texas gunman Elton Simpson, and isis. To determine to what degree the attack was directed from abroad. Though there is no evidence the terror group gave the gunmen specific instructions one u. S. Official tells cnn the shooting was, quote, certainly more than just inspiration by isis. Because of the quick and professional and brave work of local Law Enforcement officers and attempted terrorist attack was foiled. The attack fits a wellknown pattern of isis recruitment and incitement encouraging sympathizers via a sophisticated social Media Campaign to join the fight in syria or if they cannot, carry out terror attacks closer to home. Simpson apparently had public exchanges on twitter with this prominent british born isis fighter about the muhammad cartoon event in garland. And another person tied to the somali based terror group al shabaab. I dont know you can say isis said go to garland, texas, and attack that location and that activity but theyre part of the psychological approach to this that causes people to be radicalized. Those who knew simpson and his fellow gunman nadir soofi, tell cnn they never suspected they were terrorists. They didnt show any signs of radicalization or any signs of even thinking about those things in that manner. So when that happens, it just shocks you. Its interesting, erin a Senior Intelligence official was describing to me the other day about how prospective jihadis often shop around in his words, for a terror group. Here you have a case of one of these gunman who was at first reaching out to al shabaab, talk of going perhaps to somalia to fight. He had tweeted his support for anwar al locky in gemmen, and then he makes these connections with isis and carries out the attack perhaps in their name. Doesnt mean that he had hard operational ties. Never traveled to syria to train with them, but it shows purely by social media, purely by inspiration a group like isis can extends its reach all the way to the u. S. I can tell you from intel officials its this attack that are most likely to happen on u. S. Soil. Thank you very much jim sciutto. Outfront now, jim jones, director of Security Policy at rand and phil mudd. Thanks to both. Phil when you hear american officials believe theres more to an attack than two men inspired by isis athing in the name of isis what does it say to you about whats just changed, about the role of isis . Could that mean isis was funding this . Look how much weve changed in the last 15 years. We start with 19 hijackers on 911 woo were wholly owned by al qaeda, trained, funded, directed. We go to 2009 to detroit, an underwear bomber not affil yalted with what we call core al qaeda or al qaeda central, but with a group in yemen that had a al qaeda ideology. Fast forward to 2015. We have moved so far down this realm, this kind of counterterrorism revolution, we have individuals who have never been part of a group, never part of an affiliated organization in a place like yemen or somalia who say i like the ideology im not familiar with the group. Ive not joined the group, but just because of the ideology im going to get a vest and a weapon and attack. Thats in summary what we have seen over 15 years of this campaign. Its a frightening change. Seth an official is telling cnn one of the gunman Elton Simpson, ill show his picture, may have communicated with another isis member a british guy. These messages are said to have taken place right before the attack. American intelligence saw the messages. They were aware of the messages but they werent able to stop the attack. How troubling is that . I actually went through a range of the tweets from Elton Simpson. I think it is a challenge, though because if you look at his past tweets at simpsons past tweets one of the perpetrators hes talking about these kinds of attacks both in the west and elsewhere. Whats difficult is to respond quickly once he really starts to get violent. I mean he starts talking about the Charlie Hebdo attack in paris. I think from an intelligence standpoint what is difficult is to move that quickly and to arrest him when its not entirely clear hes going to do it. Just calling for this kind of attack doesnt necessarily mean that you can go and arrest