Of the newspapers and maine public. Questions will be asked by the maine public key Political Correspondent and a portland rest reporter, another po overton. The four candidates for governor are governor janet mills, a democrat elected in 2018. She served as maine attorney general and District Attorney for androscoggin, franklin and anderson counties. Paul lepage was elected in 2010 and served two terms as governor. Before elected governor, he served as the mayor of waterville. Sam hunkler, an independent, has never served in political office. He is a family physician and served in the peace corps. This debate will last approximately an hour and a half. In the interest of fairness, we will rotate which candidate answers first. We will be addressing topics that you the voters have told us are most important to you. Each candidate has one minute to answer question posed by reporters. When reporters ask a followup question, candidates have 30 seconds to answer. When a candidate needs to get a rebuttal, we allow 30 seconds for that. An Important Note this debate is challenging to schedule. We acknowledge it falls on an important high holiday on the jewish calendar. To the jewish people in our audience who have begun observance of young kapoor, the day of atonement, we wish you a belated happy new year and an easy fast. The beginning and ending order was chosen by random drawing. Governor mills will go first and Steve Mistler will ask the first question. Government efforts to control inflation have economists warning over session. What do you plan to do cut programs, increase taxes, and please be specific . Revenue remains high as it is right now, what would you do with the surplus . Sec. Fudge thanks, stephen thank you to maine public and to you journalists out this evenings debate. It is good to be back in lewiston, where i worked for 15 years and married my husband up the street at st. Josephs church and made many friends. To answer your question will take longer than a minute, but we have economists and revenue forecast was on board to make sure we dont overspend, that we dont under budget or over budget. I know global inflation is hitting everybody right now. Maine has done a good job working across the aisle to enact a budget that reserves 900 Million Dollars for the Rainy Day Fund. That is first and foremost. We are saving for the Rainy Day Fund higher than it has ever been, and we provided inflation relief checks to 800 thousand people in maine. That is just the beginning of our approach to inflation. Mr. Lepage the first thing i would have done on inflation is coming instead of giving 850,000 to mainers to body election, i would have taken 250 Million Dollars in gone to all the oil and gas police in maine oil and Gas Producers in maine and ask them to lower prices. Last march, i put 150 million into the hands of livestock growers, Vegetable Growers and fishermen and asked them to flood the market because we have the fourthhighest food cost than america because most of our food comes in by truck. It is very costly. And they go back empty. And i put a holiday on the diesel tax from november until april. You initially proposed a gas tax holiday. Mr. Lepage for food costs, i would definitely go with diesel. And not during the summer months of tourism. But i would look at all taxes and suspend all taxes put in place since the pandemic. I would suspend them until you reach an inflation rate of 2 . Mr. Hunkler steve, i believe i need to give context my answers tonight. These two need no introduction. Most people in maine dont even know there is a third person on the ballot, so in order for me to have context in my answers, i need to introduce myself. I was the eighth of nine children, the seventh of eight boys and in my family, i learned the frugal, welcoming and practical. I have served people for most of my adult life. Upper college, i went to the peace corps in kenya and east africa, i was an english and science teacher. I met a volunteer in South Portland to became a mother of my chit became the mother of my children. 37 use ago today, i married her. 37 years ago today, i married her. She is supporting me here tonight. Steve, would you like to ask a followup . This is directed at governor mills. Your administration got behind the idea of providing relief checks to meiners to deal mainers to deal with inflation, but some economists say such moves might contribute to inflation putting money in peoples pockets at a time when demand for goods is high. What do you say . Sec. Fudge the fifthhighest food prices in the indicted states were under governor mills tenure as well governor mills tenure as well. We are boosting sustainability of our farms and fisheries. On the 850 check, this is a widely bipartisan move supported by republicans, who enhanced it to 850. If you dont think it is a good idea, talk to the people who have written me. Every day, i get karzai letters, a woman wrote me the other day that she could finally put snow tires on the car before winter weather. Every day, i get crazy letters, a woman wrote me the other day that she could finally put snow tires on the car before winter weather. People wrote me to tell me it was the right move. Governor lepage, you talked about an income tax cut, which was also criticized for potentially worsening inflation. How would you pay for the income tax cut . Gov. Mills first of all, putting more money in a heated economy is inflationary. The governor may have gone to law school, but she didnt go to an economic school. A tax cut can be done by savings. When i took over in 2011, we had 14,900 employees. I left at 11,900. It is now 13,005 hundred. We are growing government again. We were running at 12,000 people. Nobody was complaining. Our phones were being answered, which they are not today. What about paying for the tax cut . Mr. Lepage you pay through the savings. I will give another example. We have 260 thousand Public School seats in our Public School system. Why dont we look at how we can consolidate . I will give an example, two high schools, 50 graduates combined this year. There were class a high schools at one time. Why dont we fix that . Another thing that we can save money on is electricity. In 2019, we were 11th in the country. Electricity costs right now in maine are number four. And i respond to those statements . Yes. Gov. Mills the last income tax cut in his administration was paid for by increasing property taxes. It took four years to repair the damage of his administration. We are rebuilding the infrastructure of may, ive infrastructure of maine, hiring back Public Health nurses and paying revenuesharing to fund police and Emergency Responders and firefighters across our state. Mr. Lepage governor, you need a pinocchio. We did not raise the sales tax when i was governor. It was 5. 5 and we did not broaden it. It was raised under the reviews governor. Under the previous governor. We gave the first increase to state employees over eight years, so you need to get your facts straight. Steve, do you have a followup for sam consular sam huntsler . Mr. Hunkler can i speak . Go ahead. Mr. Hunkler my first child was born in cleveland. After that, i came to maine to live and we bought a house. I went to my Residency Program just down the street here at the central maine medical center. My next two children, corey and jake, were born here. We went to alaska and i served in the Indian Health service. I returned here to maine, we moved to beals, and i have been there since. We are now going to discuss the maine workforce. This question comes to us from eric in cape elizabeth. Maine is the oldest state in the nation with the averaging with the average age of 45 years , which contributes to unemployment. How would you keep young people here and attract new people here from out of state . Mr. Lepage there are nine states without income tax right now in 10 working to remove it we need to face it up the long haul. Number two, and 2019 when i left, work participation in maine was tied with New Hampshire at 65 . The National Average was 61 . Today, the National Average is 62 , New Hampshire is 65 , maine is 59 . We have lost significantly. We lose every year, thousands of people, to other states that do not have income tax. They take their entrepreneurial talent sent take their capital and shortly thereafter, the kids start moving away to these places. We need to keep them here by lower taxes. We need to help our students with lower cost education. And i believe the technical and vocational should go back to the middle schools. This time, could you please answer the question she asked, do you need that repeated, about the workforce . We want to find out how you would persuade more young mainers to stay here after they finish school, and attract new young people from out of state . Mr. Lepage we need to provide adequate wages so maine students can stay here. To do that, we have to build the economy and we have to do that in conjunction with our environment. Environmental stewardship goes handinhand with the economy. Many people come to maine because of the environment. We need to be stewards of the environment. But we also need to be able to offer good jobs and day care for children, and good schools. It is a combination of a lot of things to do that. Thank you. Governor mills . Gov. Mills we have done a number of things to address the workforce issue. It is a national issue. Maine has the seventhhighest migration rate of any state in the country. People are coming here. At list at least 16,000 moved here in recent months. For the past four years, we have been working on workforce issues, a problem i inherited their you know the headlines before i took over and then some. And it is not an issue i am going to wish my grandchildren will solve it we are doing a number of things in partnership with republicans, democrats and independents in the legislature, free College Commission for committed to colleges for two years for recent high school grads, opportunities for tax credits, would have you majored in, come to maine and we will pay up to 25,000 of your student loan debt. And people are coming here, young families here. The Labor Participation rate is 32 for working age people 2454. They are coming back. Maine suffered from early retirement like other states, more acutely because we are an older state. You have a followup question . This comes from muriel in palermo. I will start with governor lepage. Child care professionals are grossly underpaid. There are not enough programs in maine, nor the workers available to staff existing programs. How will you address these needs to help parents rejoin the workforce and ensure a stable economy . Mr. Lepage kindergarten through eighth grade, i would have afterschool care until 5 00. I would encourage parents and grandparents who are not in the workforce and to not want to go or cant go to join that and get paid to do after school care. During the pandemic, we lost significant ground with education. I would give stipends to teachers to tutor kids from 2 00 until 5 00 after school so that we can have the kids taken care of after school and allow parents to go into the work force. Thank you. Sam hunkler one thing i would mr. Hunkler i would like us to consider is putting day is putting day cares and middle schools and have staff for that. One thing we need to do is be able to monitor children to see what they need at a very young a. Putting them into the schools, they can interact with other children. It is something we knew that something we need to think about doing. Gov. Mills people all over are talking about childcare. A lot of women left the workforce during the pandemic, for good reasons. Many found childcare a challenge. We have put a lot of American Rescue plan funds from my maine jobs and Recovery Program approving approved by the legislature to give them slots, to increase training at Community Colleges into pay stipends there and we are paying stipends right upper childcare workers. We are doing all that. Entering during the pandemic, we paid for after school care at the boy and girl boys and girls clubs and the ymcas. This questioner was to know what you will do to make it easier for mainers to join the workforce . Mr. Lepage the governor of the state of maine should have been parked in washington and telling the president to let these people go to work. If you send them to maine, put them to work. And if we need to give them a maine id until the government catches up, we will do that. Mainers will be put to work as soon as i get in there. Mr. Hunkler it is a huge problem because people who come here want to work at they cant because of federal laws. The other problem is, once they start working, they get a work permit and when it runs out, they have to stop working. Then they renew it and sometimes, our government is so slow it is a real problem. I dont know what we can do but go to washington and have our federal representatives help us in that. Gov. Mills under the previous president , our immigration policies were completely sidetracked. For a lot of reasons, and i know that mr. Lepage joined the Trump Administration effort to band people of the muslim faith to come to states like maine or anywhere in the country. He joined the administration in that regard. I believe senator collins at the rest of the congressional delegation, that we need to lower out jeweled debility that we need to lower eligibility to 30 days. Mr. Lepage janet mills, you are a liar. I have not joined and prevented the muslims from going to work, ever. I did not join the Trump Administration in any immigration. I have a son that we brought from jamaica. It took 11 years to get him a green card. The immigration and th the immigration policy in the u. S. Is broken and Congress Needs to fix it. But they refuse to. Gov. Mills mr. Lepage joined the trump muslim travel ban. He was very clear on that as governor. I opposed him. This time, we are going to focus on housing. Goahead. This is a question from joseph. Soaring rents and home prices are key issues for maine voters. We lack thousands of Housing Units but few local communities want to build Affordable Housing in their borders. What role should the state play in addressing the housing shortage . Should it be investing more money in public housing, for example . One of biggest problems is that housing is taken up by people from out of state who buy summer homes, which jack stop the price. For residential homes, i would like to see us greatly increase the rate on Residential Property taxes end up the same time, greatly increase homestead exemption so that people who have primary homes, taxes go down, but people who come from away, their taxes go up mainers go up. Mainers pay income taxes, summer people dont. We support the summer people with our income tax which they dont pay. One way to make up for that is for the people who come to pay more taxes on residential properties. Gov. Mills he is right. We should expand the homestead extension at we have. The legislature and i and acted measures to expand the homestead extension to 25,000 and increase the property tax credit so people can stay in their homes. One of the first things i did as governor was to issue the 50 million Senior Housing bond that had our you housing bond that had already been passed by the people and sat on the previous governors desk for two years. We have a generous package of reforms, biggest in the history of maine. With the help of the legislature, we enacted historic affordable tax credits and put 50 million of that federal money towards housing, 20 million of it towards rural rental housing. And we are moving forward on emergency housing measures and helping people find housing. Mr. Lepage there is no question that we need housing in the state of maine. The governor is absolutely correct. There were housing bonds that i did not issue. Because they were giving them money to developers. They build housing and then go to market rates. It is not affordable. We were not helping the affordability. That is the problem. We do not have Affordable Housing. We need to look at our older buildings and schools and convert them to Affordable Housing and consolidate our schools to lower the property tax. The school portion, we would lower that. We would have Affordable Housing and we would get these older buildings that are low protective. I could name you dozens of schools that could be converted into Affordable Housing. We did gov. Mills that exactly what we did with a tax credit, take old buildings, that is what we are doing continuously. We reenacted that tax credit. Developers are developing these Housing Units. I have had the pleasure meeting with Senior Citizens living in those units created by that 50 million bond issue passed by the voters and signed, issued by me. They are comfortable in their Affordable Housing. Mr. Lepage then why is the budget this year 259 one million in rent assistance . Gov. Mills im talking about the Senior Housing bond. Mr. Lepage im talking about housing. I believe you have a followup. In the same order. This is a question for all three of you. The number of people homeless in maine has skyrocketed. The 2022 survey counted 4400 people experiencing homelessness in maine, double the number in 2021. How much priority is this for you, and what do you plan to do about it . That is a good question, it has to be a multiple approach. A lot of homeless obviously do not have jobs or any place to go. We have to open something to help them out. We could open old schools or buildings but we have to help them and get them off the street. We have a lot of Mental Health and we have to treat those people as well. There needs to be a multi prong approach to solve that problem. Gov. Mills that is why i appointed greg payne as my advisor. He is an expert in housing. This is why he is in contact with every town and city across the state, to look at the homelessness situation. There are many reasons people are without housing. I signed into law a budget that includes 23 million for emergency housing and 750,000 for wraparound services. There are a lot of Mental Health needs that are not being addressed. Mr. Lepage a major part of the homeless problem has to do with drugs and mental illness. I absolutely agree. In fact, we proposed a facility that would put 100 beds to detox people and dealing with mental illness. Get them stabilized and back in the workforce. This governor got rid of that, and we will dining rooms, gyms, and libraries. Gov. Mills we have lost this year, we will double the amount of people dying from opioids. We have a governor that is providing crack pipes. I will let the press factcheck everything he says. Some of the statements coming out of his mouth, on the opioid issue, we can talk about that separately. There is no plan on my desk to create 100 units for people with mental illness, no such plan, but we have responded to the drug issue by using treatment. We will move on. The next topic is reproductive rights. Abortion is legal if the fetus is capable of surviving after the wound and after it is only necessary to preserve the life of the mother if permitted. A lot of our readers want to know more about your positions on this issue. Would you support removing the current liability restriction in maine law . Gov. Mills i respect the current maine law, it reflects roe v. Wade, which tragically the Supreme Court has chosen to overturn. A womans right is just that, not a politicians. And most certainly not mr. Lepage or anybody in public office. As long as im governor, the right to Reproductive Health care will never be considered dispensable. My veto panel will stand in the way of anyone undermining roe or delimiting the right for abortion in maine. I have never wavered or equivocated, never flipflopped. I will followup. After 28 weeks, that would mean that would remain illegal in maine. Gov. Mills the current law, i have no plans to change the current law. Mr. Lepage eight years as the governor of maine, never once did i attempt ever to even talk about the abortion bill because i believe in the bill in place right now is a good bill. Governor mills has been spending millions of dollars telling people i will change the law, i believe in protecting the mothers life for rape, incest. I also believe in the viability. Along with dr. Shaw and governor mills, i have never served in health care. Therefore, i do not know what viability is, i would leave that up to doctors to decide. The law, the way it stands, it has been there since 1993. I have never attempted to change it. Our question is a little different, what would happen if the legislature were to bring you a bill to add additional restrictions, whether reducing the waiting time, the viability period by 15 weeks like other states are doing, or requiring parental consent, or burial of fetal tissue. Mr. Lepage i prefer the current law as it is. If they brought that bill to you, you would not sign them . Mr. Lepage that is correct. Would you let it go to law without your signature . Mr. Lepage i dont know. Gov. Mills as governor, you know the options. Mr. Lepage would you allow a baby to take a breath . Gov. Mills would you allow the law to go into effect with your signature . Mr. Lepage this is what i would do, the law in place now, i have the same place you have, and i would honor the law as it is. You are talking about a hypothetical. Gov. Mills no were not. Mr. Lepage making it illegal for the viability, no, i would not sign that. I would veto that. The viability is in law now. I do not think that was the question. There would be restrictions in a bill, would you veto additional restrictions if it came from the republicans . Mr. Lepage i dont know what you mean by additional restrictions. A 15 week limitation on abortion, or they wanted requiring parental consent for a minor, or a burial for fetal tissue. Mr. Lepage if you are talking about what i veto a bill to change the viability, i would go to the medical professionals to tell me. I do not know what you mean by 15 weeks or 28 weeks. I do not know. I do not understand the question. Gov. Mills i understand the question. I would not let such law become effective. My veto will stand in the way of any restrictions. Mr. Lepage when you say restriction, im trying to understand if the legislature came to you and said we want to change maines law, and instead of viability which stands at 28 weeks, now the law will say no abortions after 15 weeks. Would you veto that . Mr. Lepage yes. Gov. Mills sam hunkler, do you have a specific question . We want to know if you would make any changes to the law as it stands now. Mr. Hunkler abortion is an unfortunate issue in our society, and it would be nice if it was obsolete, but we are far away from that. The other thing we do making abortion illegal, we put womens lives at risk. I am not willing to do that. I would support and defend the current constitution as it is. If the legislature brought something to me and there were two thirds on the legislature or two thirds of the women in the state who want Something Different, i would sign it. Do you have a followup for the candidates . We are going to move on to maine care. There is only one person on the stage who responded to the right to life questionnaire. The question was, will you restrict abortion, and he answered yes, only one of us did that, mr. Lepage. Mr. Lepage it is a restriction that is already there. I am honoring the the restriction i am talking about is the law as it stands. The restriction or viability. The restriction is rape, incest, and the health of the mother absolutely. We are moving onto a followup question on maine care and whether you would medical insurers covering abortions. Should this funding continue, and if not, why . Gov. Mills yes, it is really important women have access to affordable Reproductive Health care no matter where they live or what their zip code. Private and public insurance is required under the current law, i would certainly fight to keep that current law in effect. Mr. Lepage i do not support late term abortions. I do not support taxpayerfunded abortions. That is my position. Mr. Hunkler that is a tough one. Right now we allow for that. We should continue in terms of a risk to the mother, absolutely. Because this is a divisive issue, i do not know if i would continue to support all abortion through maine care. Gov. Mills when we talk about maine care, this is state funding. Correct. Our next topic is threats to democracy. You will be interested to learn this is the topic the Portland Press herald received more questions about than any other topic. The attack on the u. S. Capitol last year was spurred by false claims that President Bidens win was not legitimate, that there was widespread fraud that affected the outcome. I would like to ask if you believe President Biden legitimately won the election, and if not, what evidence do you have to support the position . Mr. Lepage i believe President Biden won the election, i am just not sure who was running the country. What do you mean by that . Mr. Lepage he is not capable of running the country, and i do not know who is holding the strings. Mr. Hunkler President Biden won the election. Are you sure . Mr. Hunkler yes. Gov. Mills governor biden won the popular vote, millions of votes, and the electoral vote despite the attempt to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power by mr. Trumps allies. This is for governor lepage, from andrew in georgetown. He had this question for you. You have made unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud over the years including large cities like portland and bangor are at higher risk of voter fraud. Do you stand by your position, and can you explain it . Mr. Lepage it is easily explained, we have 163,000 people given to us by the secretary of state who when you cross reference an id or license, they do not have them. That is a concern. In the context i made that comment was in small towns the township knows everybody. It is much harder to defraud the election ballots then in the larger cities. That is the context that i meant that. I do not understand why it is such an issue to give a voter id. Just give everybody a voter id at the expense of the state and the problem is solved. Questions for the other candidates . This is for all three candidates. Are you confident enough in maine elections that you are prepared to accept the results of the upcoming election that you are in regardless of whether you win or lose . Mr. Lepage absolutely. I have never rejected any election including the 2020 president ial election. I think that is an absurd question, frankly. One thing i am concerned about, you talk about democracy but one thing you did not mention his censorship. From the left. When the fbi go into facebook and tell them to censor people, you have not mentioned that. I think that is a bigger threat to democracy than voting in maine, where we use paper ballots. Mr. Hunkler i absolutely trust the integrity of our election system in maine. You would accept whatever happens in november . Mr. Hunkler absolutely. Governor mills. Gov. Mills absolutely, we have a superb system, we had an 80 turnout and one of the most controversial president ial election years in recent history with about 60 voting absentee forecasting early ballots. They did so safely. I do not understand the objections mr. Lepage has made about small towns versus cities. The Council Voted unanimously to confirm we are going to move on mr. Lepage why are you against voter id . Gov. Mills we do not need it here in maine. We have integrity in our elections. We have a huge turnout which validates our democracy. The right to vote is so fundamental, why would you question it . Why would you impose paperwork on voters . Why inhibit them from voting . It is in the foundation of our democracy. It is our responsibility to ensure every maine person we are moving on. We are talking about the environment. We have all been following the news of the hurricanes that hit floridas west coast. Leaving millions in the dark and killing at least 100 people. Scientists are telling us warming oceans and rising sea levels will make hurricanes more severe with higher wind speeds, they will be wetter, travel more slowly, causing more damage. We would like to know what steps will you take to make sure maine is prepared for this extreme weather, and how would you pay for that . Mr. Hunkler i would ask the experts about what we need to do and how we need to go about it. Nova scotia had one of the worst storms ever probably because of climate change. A lot of our coast is higher up but we have a lot of lowlying land. We need to figure out how to mitigate that. As to how we do that, i do not know, that is for experts and engineers to figure out. We need to look at it, put money into it, but that is something that is going to take a concerted effort from many departments to figure out how to do that. I do not know the answer to that. Gov. Mills clean air and clean water are fundamental to who we are in this state, how we live, how people stay healthy. I was pleased to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the clean water act and nationally which had musky drafted and enacted. We are here to protect our clean water and clean air. That is why i have supported appropriation funds this year, 40 million to preserve water, working farms, working for us working forests. Invest in community infrastructure. 20 million to help communities be resilient. Join forces to engage to track solar power, take steps to keep the environment healthy and turn to alternative energy as well. How would that help us repair for extreme weather . Gov. Mills one of the first things i did was create the Climate Action council, and they created the climate plan. That has a lot to do with community resilience. Community resilience helps Fund Communities to look at whether they need help along the waters edge or fish in a different way or diversify what they are doing to prepare for climate change, because it is real. We have been making up for lost time on climate change, using all of our resources to do that. Mr. Lepage the governor said she had a bipartisan budget, she passed a majority budget. It was a majority budget, one party, no republicans involved. When it comes to climate change, there is no question it is changing. Climate is changing. We have a problem we have to deal with. The problem i am having now is penalizing maine people for actions for other countries and other states. We are one of the cleanest states but we are punishing our citizens with high energy costs. We have gone from 11th to 4th highest energy costs in the country. We are losing our logging industry and forest industry. Another decade of assault, we will have major forest fires because we are not cutting the annual growth of our forest. That is really important. We have to Pay Attention to the entire environment. Lets go back to the storms. How would that help us prepare for the storms . Mr. Lepage if you manage forests, maine has 18 million acres, and a forest is carbon neutral, it helps the environment if you manage it properly. Right now we are not. That goes a long way to helping the climate. We have to preserve our farms. We are taking a lot of our farms off the grid, off growing, and making them into solar arrays. That will be dangerous because this disposable in 20 years, we will face the same problem los angeles is now with no place to put them. Gov. Mills for more than 20 years we have had Sustainable Forestry practices. It does affect our loggers, our Forest Product industry. Doing it safely, harvesting sustainably. That was part of the budget this year. Funding 40 million to preserve farmland, preserve working water fronts and forestry. I want to move on to the Opioid Epidemic. There were a record 626 Overdose Deaths in maine last year, a grim reminder we are in the grips of a brutal Opioid Epidemic. According to the latest statistics, we are on pace to break last years record. Governor mills, you have endorsed the necessary tools to fight this crisis but in 2020, the second year of your first term, maine had the ninth highest drug death rate in the country. If it is following the Gold Standard treating the problem, why does the problem seem to be getting worse . Gov. Mills my heart goes out to every Family Member, any family who has lost a Family Member to a drug overdose. We do have a high number. We have a high number of fatal overdoses. That is because of the kind of drugs that are out there. The fentanyl we are trying to get off the streets. We have seized almost 82 pounds of fentanyl the last couple of years. This is so highly fatal, and it is in everything. Beyond that, we have narcan out there. For every person with a fatal overdose, there are a dozen who overdosed who did not die, and we have help turn their lives around by increasing treatment centers, detox centers, recovery coaches to help turn lives around. That is so important to help people be productive once again. Sorry for the confusion, i have a specific question. I think you will get into this, but you have called governor mills approach a failure, but it was eight highest in 2017 and 10th highest in 2016 while you were governor and in pursuit of a Law Enforcement approach. Mr. Lepage i think it is all the above. In 2016i signed a bill, 150 million bond that was going to put a forensic unit in bangor and remove some of the forensic patients to allow for more Mental Health. Like what the governor said, there was going to be a facility with 100 beds. She said she never saw it. We have all kinds of data and information about it. The other thing that bothers me about her approach, she is now giving crack pipes through a federal program, and she allowed a bill that allows 2000 lethal doses of drugs, of fentanyl, which she said is the most deadly, to be no longer trafficking, it is only personal possession. That is outrageous. Let me check you on the crack pipes thing, that is part of the federal program that does not specifically fund crack pipes. It is a safe drug kit program, but neither pipes are included in those kids. In those kits. Mr. Lepage i think you need to do your homework. I did. Mr. Lepage we have some crack pipes, some reported who got the kits. In that report that you referenced, the reporter acknowledges those pipes that he got from a facility, in that story, they acknowledge that those were not part of that federal program. Let me followup on narcan. You have repeatedly criticized expanding access of the overdose reversal drug, narcan, because you see it as a method of sustaining and extending life, and not a way to fix the problem. The sole purpose of narcan is to save somebodys life. Mr. Lepage until the next overdose. Until the next overdose. Let me explain how that does not work with your plan . Mr. Lepage it does work with the plan if we had the detox center, it would work perfectly. Narcan, if you keep giving narcan to the same people over and over again, you will eventually miss. If you get into a detox center my whole program was to get them into detox. Once they detox, you get them into society in a workplace. If they stay sober for a year, you expunge the record, because that is the most critical. If you expunge the record, you give them a Second Chance at life. The problem with narcan and drug addiction now, many of these people never get off the drug because they do not have the Second Chance. They cannot get a good career job, and they are on the lower end of the spectrum. We will give sam hunkler a chance to answer the question. I have a brief question about narcan. Do you believe it should be as available as it is now . Do you have alternative ideas how we should approach the Opioid Epidemic . Mr. Hunkler first of all, we treat addiction with addiction. We give people methadone, very addictive substance, so we keep people addicted to pharmaceuticals. Those people become dependent on the system to get these drugs. As far as i can see, there is no interest to get them off. The only way you will get them off is they have to go to recovery, they have to deal with the underlying problems. What i see happening, it will not change unless we change the way we treat. I would turn one of our prisons into a rehabilitation and detox center. If you think about it, half the people incarcerated are there for drug related problems. We need a way to get these people off the streets, stabilize their lives, help get them back in the community. We need to help them change their lives. The pharmaceutical drugs are not doing that and there is no incentive to get them off them. It fosters dependency. We are going to move on gov. Mills we made the National News about what is happening in our prisons, our state prisons with counseling and medication treatment that has been going on for more than 2000 people through the prison system now. I am proud of our department of corrections for addressing addiction and Substance Abuse disorder in a progressive manner. Our next topic is tribal relations. Can you go quickly mr. Hunkler yes no, go ahead. Our next topic is tribal relations. Maines nation want to revisit the land reclaim act, a law and which they waived their claims in exchange for 181 million. That law past and future did not apply to maines tribes. The tribes are in effect subject to state laws rather than sovereign nations under federal jurisdiction as is the case for the other 570 recognize tribes in the united states. We have a specific lesson for each candidate. You have criticized the attempts to change the agreement, which you said was a done deal. In august he said the settlement act was negotiated fairly in the tribes only want to open the terms of the deal now because they want more money. Are you open to renegotiating, and if not, why . Mr. Lepage im absolutely willing to sit down with the tribes to discuss their needs are and where they want to go, but i do not know any specifics because i have not been involved in the government in the last four years. At the time we were there, there were things we wanted and we were working on them. They wanted maple syrup program, i was open to work with them. I do not know what happened because my time ran out. I understand there are talks. Im willing to sit down and talk about and negotiate, yes. Washington county, where you live, based on where your experience what you see in your county, are there specific changes to the 1980 agreement that you would support . Mr. Hunkler i do not know the 1980 agreement that well, so cannot specifically speak to that, but i support sovereignty for the tribes in maine. I will do whatever i need to do to make that happen. You successfully opposed the tribal bill passed by the state legislature this year because you said it would create more uncertainty and legal challenges. This is an area where you were a bit out of step with your party. Governor, why should they not have the same powers as tribal nations and other parts of the country . Gov. Mills i am committed to healing the divisions of the past and forging new tribal relationships based on mutual trust and respect. I think we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, share the same land. We have disagreements over policy. This is one bill i have disagreements over in its current form. I filed testimony, he has not been responded to. The issue is what happens to environmental laws, fission while lifelong if the tribes acquire additional lands exempted from state laws and regulations . We are talking about those things and this year things we have in common. We created a bill that addresses gambling, collaboration, income tax issues relating to the tribes. We made great progress with the tribes on fishing waters, one of the highest quality standards in the nation, and addressing Water Quality issues among many other things. We are going to take a quick break. When we return, we will talk about education and other issues. And each candidate will present a closing statement. Welcome back to the debate between the candidates for governor in maine. Our next topic is education. Sam hunkler will go first. Mr. Hunkler, a general question about Public Education in your views of it, considering how politicized it has been in this campaign. Do you have any concerns over what is being taught in schools or concerns with the quality of the education . Do you support the idea of 55 funding of Public Education costs . Mr. Hunkler first of all, the Education System is failing our children. I was at the summit in fairfield and talked to one student, and he said, it is not good for me to sit and listen to people lecture to me for seven hours a day. We have this focus on testing where we do math and science testing, and that is ok but we need to broaden our idea of education. Some kids are going on to college, some will be fishermen. We need to give local control to the schools. We need to give guidelines from the state but give the control of education back to communities. Those communities know what their children need more than the people at the top. We need to look more to the individual schools and see what they need in terms of education. Governor mills, during this campaign, voters are seeing a lot of messaging from the Maine Republican Party and outside groups and former governor the page, that schools are teaching about lgbtq issues. We have not heard from you about these allegations. Now is as good a time as any. Gov. Mills that whole effort is to deflect from his record on education and the eight years we lost in progress in education. My record on education includes, finally for the first time, fully funding the state share of Public Education. It includes giving teachers a raise, funding equipment for ctes. Being on the road to universal prek. That is what parents have asked for. We have a system of local control when it comes to the curriculum of maines schools in many parents serve on school boards. Parents have rights in maine, and i encourage them to take part in the process. Run for the school board, express your views to the school board, if there is a piece of the curriculum you have a problem with, speak up. It took 20 years to get to 55 , and there is a reason for that, it is costly. Can you continue to do that when state coffers are not as flush as they are now . There is a possibility of a recession. Can you meet that threshold if there is a downturn . Gov. Mills that is why the legislature, the bipartisan budget, 30 million for education reserves. We are fully funding our state share of education. That not only funds education but brings the burden down off of property taxpayers. We aim to continue complying with our obligations to fund Public Education at 55 without any gimmicks or tricks up our sleeves. What you propose gives parents more of a say in education, but other republicans in enacting these laws have set new baselines for curricula that better reflects their conservative values. How is that not an infringement of local control . Is that any different from what your campaign has accused the Mills Administration of doing . Mr. Lepage no. What i believe is that parents should have a right to opt in or out of certain curricula. That is with the parents bill of rights is in my mind. I truthfully believe we should go back to reading, writing, math, civics, and we should teach our children how to think independently and critically, not what to think. If anybody in this audience believes our schools right now are not being indoctrinated, i am sorry. What i am saying, if we have school choice, we have a parents bill of rights, we have transparency in curriculum. Parents should have a right to opt in or out if they do not like it. We need Technical Education in all of our schools so we correct this imbalance of 60 population of colleges are women and 40 men. One of the main components is this voucher program, expanding it to all students so they can attend schools outside the districts they reside. The critics contend this drains resources for Public Education and benefits parents you can afford the difference between the subsidy they receive and the actual cost of tuition to a private school. What do you say to that . Mr. Lepage the money should follow the students. I also will be critical of the 55 . Who established the 55 . Voters. Mr. Lepage who establishes on a yeartoyear budget the 55 . The state has no say in it. It is established by superintendent. If you look at our schools, we are high in administration and bricks and mortar, and low on how much money gets into the classroom. I want to get more money into the classroom. The next education question. First come free meals and then bricks and mortar. The question is during the covid19 pandemic, the federal government began offering free breakfast and lunch to students regardless of family income. Last year, maine announced it would continue the program even when the pandemic waivers and. Will you continue to fund this program . Gov. Mills we do, we will, we have. That was part of a bipartisan budget to include universal free food in the maine schools. Mr. Lepage i have to make another correction, the latest budget that was passed was a majority budget. The First Time Since 2005. It was a majority budget and not bipartisan. With that, i believe in kids in school being fed properly, i absolutely agree with that. That is one of the foundations of going to schools, making sure you do not go to school hungry and come home hungry. I am all in for fitting the children. The state should pick up the tap . Mr. Lepage yes. Gov. Mills in april this year we enacted a fully bipartisan budget that included two years free tuition to Community Colleges, universal free food for schools and Inflation Relief Program along with so many other things. Mr. Lepage it was a majority budget. Gov. Mills it was a bipartisan budget and overwhelmingly bipartisan. Mr. Hunkler i would like to see that funding continue and continue to feed children in schools, but i would also like to add that we try to feed them with maine produce, our farms. I would love to see us use that and really make good nutritious food. Fund as much as we can from our own farms. I would also like for at least one lunch, i would like to invite everybody over 65 to have lunch with those kids. It would be great to get the children and elderly together. Everything i would do is governor would be through the lens of the children and the future. If it is not good for children in the future, we should not do it. Starting with feeding them, good nutritious meals is a good place to start. Very quickly we will do a followup. Many maine School Buildings are in dire need of replacement or renovation. More than 100 schools are on the waiting list for state funding for improvement. The state only funds a handful of projects every few years. What do you plan to do about this crisis . Gov. Mills we did replenish the School Renovation fund this year. I believe it is in the budget this year. That will go out to the schools, you know there is a priority list that the state looks at. Im sure there are greater needs as the budget allows, and we will fund them. Mr. Lepage i believe we have a housing shortage and a lot of bricks and mortar we can take a hard look at our schools and see where we can consolidate and get to schools, and turned some current schools into Affordable Housing. I think it is a program we can do, it will be expensive but it is an Infrastructure Investment that the state needs to make. Mr. Hunkler i would like to have us begin to have a commission on education that is ongoing all the time to keep looking at education, because nobody has the answers, but we need to bring people together to do that. In terms of brickandmortar, we need more vocational schools and kids interested in vocational schools. That means to start in junior high. Get kids out in the community to work with people. We need to rethink how we do education, not just the brickandmortar part of that. That needs to be part of a much bigger vision of how we will educate our children. My final question of this debate, voters want to know about your leadership style. Governor lepage, before launching your bid for another term, you raise your relationship with President Trump and described your style as a prototype like his. That is described as chaotic and counterproductive to governing. Why should maine voters believe it should be any different if you get another term . Mr. Lepage it is very simple. To be very honest with you and the media, i think you have been a little unfair and how you treated me over the last eight years. That aside, life is a journey and you learn. Every day you grow and learn, and you have to muddle your way through life, a pilgrimage of life. Along the way you learn. I have learned a lot. My style is far more laidback than you realize. If you talk to people who work for me as governor, how i manage the state, it is far different than you could ever imagine. Was i combative with the media . Yes. I get what i get. Your campaign has been anchored that all one has to do is solve albums to bring people together. I wonder how that is different do you believe leaders can lead without holding policy views of their own . Mr. Hunkler i can tell you what i believe and i can give you my opinion and policy ideas, but i am one of 1. 3 million people. I would really like to bring people together. I have been on the streets for the past year, and i hear all kinds of ideas that i never would have come up with on my own. None of us have the answers to everything, and we need input from people. Instead of a commissioner i would like a commission running a department so you can have more ideas. I would like to be leading and orchestrating that. I would like a council of advisors around me all the time, because i have ideas but i also know we all have ideas. If i were to go to the commissioner of agriculture, i would go to farmers and get 50 of you, give me five names ranked choice to see who comes out on top. I will not have political appointments. Governor mills, a significant part of your reelection message is your willingness to collaborate with those who might disagree with you. Many republican lawmakers have a different view of your leadership, especially when it came to the pandemic. What is your response to complaints that you did not involve them in decisions that you made . Gov. Mills we did, and we had a lot of zoom meetings and teleconferences with all kinds of stakeholders including legislators. More importantly i have a cabinet that is given free reign to talk to legislators, to talk to the media about our treatment programs in the prison. They are free to voice their opinions, and they are some of the best and brightest people i could ever imagine being with me during one of the Tumultuous Times in recent history. My leadership style is to sit down and listen to people. That is what we have done for the last four years. We did it by working across the aisle. I issued a small number of vetoes carefully worded to inform people what my positions were. That is our last question. We will turn to closing statements now. You will each have two minutes to give a closing statement directly to the voters. This was decided before the debate by random drawing. Sam hunkler, go ahead. Mr. Hunkler the fact i am standing here means you can do this too. I stand here not because of fame or money or Political Party or any other reasons other than i was able to go out and get 4000 signatures from the people of maine from 360 towns and counties. I stand here because i spent the last year on the streets talking to people. I spent 30 years as a Family Doctor speaking to them, and as a Community Member and citizen of the state. I will bring your voices with me to the governorship. We now have a government of Political Parties by politicians for special interests, and those special interests are corrupting the whole political system with the influence of money. Most of us want Something Different but we do not know what that looks like. I am standing for a different way of governing based on finding Common Ground for the common good and with common sense. In order to heal the divide in our society and find Common Ground, we must learn to listen to one another and be open to new ideas and ways of governing. You may not have heard of me before tonight because i am standing on a big grassroots wordofmouth campaign. I am accepting no donations and limiting my personal money to 5,000 for this whole campaign. This frees me from being beholden to anyone, any organization, any special interests, any Political Party to any lobbyist. My allegiance is to the people of maine. We have a choice. I offer you something to vote for rather than against. I am asking you to vote for me but more importantly i am asking you to stand with me with strength and integrity to form a government of the people, by the people, and for the people of maine. You can learn more about me at my website. You will not be asked for donations. Thank you. We move now to paul lepage. Mr. Lepage on november 8, maine people will have a choice. We are coming off of a Record Number of deaths over the last two years, Record Number of overdoses, suicides is the number two killer not only in maine but around the country for 1030yearolds. Maine is facing challenges as our country is. Our economy is broken. Our federal government is broken. We as people need to find a way to start working together, because Abraham Lincoln said, a house divided cannot stand. We need to find a way to start working together. We need each other more in the middle. I never had a majority budget, and i think a majority budget is a bad budget. We did in 2012 have a supplemental that was a majority because we were pressed for getting some policy done. Janet mills only solution is to throw money at a problem. What do we do when the money is gone . Remember one thing, a lot of money hides a lot of sins. Ask yourself, are you better today than you were four years ago . Is your grocery bill lower today than it was four years ago . Is your electricity bill lower . [speaking french] my record is very clear, i have an eight year record. I took the state when it was in the biggest recession of the history of our country, and i turned the state around, and i can do it again. Governor mills. Gov. Mills we have been through tough times together these last few years especially, and we braved them together. Now i am looking at the future. I was born and raised in western maine. We had paper routes as kids. When i married my husband, he was a widower with five daughters and we raised them together while working full time both of us. They had a good education. He is gone and the girls all grown up but i have five grandchildren here in maine. I love Nothing Better than to spend time with my granddaughters, to hear what is on their minds. Nana, will my tooth come back in . I can tie my shoe now. See the picture i drew for you. I know what is on their minds, but what is on my mind is what opportunity will they have 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years from now. Will they have the same rights i have enjoyed for the last 49 years . As long as i am governor, they will. Will they get a good education here in maine . Will they breathe clean air and drink clean water . Will they have Affordable Health care . Will they have a rewarding career and able to raise their own children in a safe and welcoming state . In other words, their future and your childrens future is what is on my mind every day. That is why i am running for one more term as governor, to make sure every boy and girl gets to go to a good school and enjoy our great natural resources, and have the career they choose in a state i love so much, and know this will be their only home. We have made great progress these past few years through one of the toughest times in history, and we will not go back. I am privileged to be your governor, and i am honored to have your vote. Thanks, governor mills and to all the candidates tonight. Thanks to the Franco Center for hosting the debate, and thank you for joining us. Election day is november 8. For all of us at maine public, the Portland Press herald, good night. 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