Good evening. We are going to tell you the story of Florence Harding, who has been neglected and derided throughout history. And hardings came in as popular people. We are going to learn about her and her husbands time in office. Let me introduce you to our guest. Katherine sibley is a history professor at st. Joseph college. Her book is called behind the tragedy and controversy. David pietrusza is a guest as well. Authorntial historian, of the book 1920, the year of the six president s. When he came to office, it was in a landside. Set the stage for what brought these people into office. The mood of the country is bad. It is the year when any republican who ran, the trick was to get to the nomination. Tr was supposed to be the nominee. There was a big split. That is patch. Tr dies in his sleep. There are people who want to fill the void. The governor of illinois. Which leads you to the fourth man, the available man, andrew sinclair, Warren Harding. Too cold,too hot, not not too much of anything. He is handsome and a fairly good speaker. He has been on the National Stage at the 1916 republican convention. He nominated taft in 1912. He is the alternative. In that year, the alternative to wilson as him wins. They were the publishers of a newspaper. Give us the short history of publishing a newspaper to national politics. Paper when small harding required it. He made it successful over time thanks to the efforts of his wife, florence. They will talk we will talk later about how they met. She was a key element. What happens is they are working in the paper. It is going well. It is a little doll. She liked seeing him get involved in other things. He was a very good speaker. He didnt Alexander Hamilton he did and Alexander Hamilton oration. He ran for governor, was not successful. He was positioned. He was visible in ohio. When there of 1913, was a new law that allowed senators to be elected popularly, he is positioned to run. He is elected to the senate in ohio. He thus becomes the first popularly elected senator from that state. The first senator to become president as a sitting senator. Florence is right there alongside him. Significant. Uite you write in your book that he was unconvinced about his of viability as a candidate, even among his congressional republicans. It was a matter of his health. He did die early. Then there was a matter of terri phillips. There were other women as well. His personal life was a mess. Do people look the other way and these days . In those days . There were a lot of things which were not talked about. Scandal of public figures were not written about. Unless there was a divorce. Unless something went into the courts. The papers would not touch it. Something that has never occurred to me until now, he is a newspaper man. Maybe he is part of the club and theyre not going to write about it. That may work in his favor. There are other infidelities going on. Is certainly some issues about Woodrow Wilson in the bahamas or bermuda, before he is president. There is the famous incident of alice roosevelt, and her child, deborah, she wanted to name it deborah. It becomes pauline. That is the illegitimate daughter of a famous guy at that time. Then Franklin Roosevelt cheating on Eleanor Roosevelt in 1917. The rich have their prerogatives. They take them. One of our viewers asks how did mrs. Harding respond to the rumors . It is a great question. There is a debate about these relationships that Warren Harding had. He had this affair with Kerry Phillips. A couple whole world related who were related in ohio. Lauren falls in love with carrying war and falls in love with caring. Florence discovers about this affair. They were still friends and vacationing together. How did it she reacts . Not very happily. Consider him to divorce. He knew he needed her for his career. He agreed to downplay the affair, and i believe he committed to and did it. He did not, as it turns out. As he is running for president , it is an embarrassment. It hasnt been an active affair for several years. They were flaring years of it. In the end, she is essentially bought off by members of the Republican Party who come up with funds to get her outof theway. Florence was not happy at all. There are wonderful quotes in her diary where she expresses how difficult it was dealing with an unfaithful husband like hers was. We have one of her diary quotes. How much is preserved . Her diary is not very reliable as far as dates. I believe it is an authentic version of her thoughts. It was a small book discovered 15 years ago in ohio. Recipes, remembrances, and the things were want to share with the audience. There is a clear sense of her own views and beliefs. I think it is credible. It is not extensive and dated. We have to take that into account. It is a very informal diary. It is like a datebook or calendar. It seems to be real. One quote we will share with you to caption her thinking ut this, the iniquity of man, did she make the best foreign harding . I think she did. She went after him. When she saw he could be someone that could rise. Him,metimes hear she made too simple. At is that takes away from his abilities, which are not stumbling which are not in the maccabee bracco and which is not something that can be reckoned with. Dave murdoch asks, was in his personer one newspaper who did was his own fatherin law. Would criticize his son inlaw. This is a long story. He is a banker, a businessman. Doesnt he buy a competing business newspaper . With the caller is getting to is that he helped to fund an opponent when harding ran for senator. He funded another republican newspaper in the town and siphon business away. To call him a newspaper person would be he is a banker. He is the fatherinlaw. He likes being a banker. There was a long history. We can talk about the history of florences first marriage. He did not like her first husband or her second husband. The only got reconciled when his first wife died, the mother florence. He decided he would make some effort with her. They came back together. It was a difficult relationship for the first years. The first seven years, there was nothing. Abouthardings talk about hardings audio. About theearn campaign, the way that they decided to conduct their campaign from marion, ohio. Not accusation, but adjustment. Not surgery, but serenity. Not that dramatic, but the dispassionate. But theriment, triumphant. All of the action took place on this porch. Warren during speeches, would stand here with florence beside him. They would wave to the crowd parading down towards his house. Tos was a perfect backdrop the campaign. Not only did it show the human side, the fact they did not live in the mansion, they lived in a normal house like most of the folks coming to see him speak, they wanted to feature the town as well. Warren said the campaign was taking main street to the white house. Florence was a part of this message. She was a visible part of the campaign. She was always near him on the front porch when he was speaking. She gave interviews herself to magazines, especially womens magazines. She alternated between being the savvy politician, to being the home but he homebody. She knew how politics works. She knew the different sides of her that but have to be per trade as part of the campaign in order to make the campaign successful for him. She is not afraid to wait into a crowd. She is in the line shaking hands along with the president. Going through hundreds if not thousands of people, standing there as long as it will take to shake hands and greet people. We see Florence Harding, who knows how her husband is going to get to the white house, through the vote. It is important politically, and she believes in the people of the united states. She seems as good or better politician as her husband. When she is more out there th with her strengths. He pushes on. She continues. Thehink of how ill she was, kidney ailments, it is astounding. She would recover from days like 48 hours to recover from shaking hands. She wanted to be accessible. She wanted to be a people person. We welcome your participation. We are getting comments on facebook and twitter. Youre welcome to join that conversation. The cspan facebook pages easy to follow. Twitter, two ways you can be involved. We will look at those. Here are the phone lines. You cant talk about the campaign without talking about harry dorning. He is the campaign manager. He is the man behind the throne, especially the way he tells it. He elevates his influence and power great deal. He does help harding out. Udc correspondence where he is saying you think if i listen to the gossip i swallowed all. I dont. I know exactly what is going on. Harding is incredibly savvy. He is good. He is an excellent people person. People like him. Even his enemies like him. Exuding human kindness. This is something overlooked about him. And ifnuinely kind hisshove out aspects of life, hes a good person. He is very lovable. But daugherty is runofthe mill. Too shady to make the trip himself. He gets behind harding. Himuns, he says i found sunning himself like a turtle on along, and i push them into it. Did harding make himself . John dean in his biography makes the point that hardings protestations of inadequacy, of humbleness, is not necessarily an act, but that harding from the beginning was a very sharp guy. Career is good. He learns things quickly. He is giving speeches of the age of four years old. People get jealous of people who were good. He didnt necessarily want to be president did he . Lex i do not think so. I do not think so. He enjoyed being in the senate. They thought he was popular. He didnt. It seemed increasingly there was urgings on him. That in the big letter which he sends to Kerry Phillips regarding the blackmail. She had the letters. 98 ofwere approximately them. Not all torrid love letters. A lot of the mwere. I will say this. In reading history, people skip over to the dirty parts. These he is aof good writer. Charm. S a certain she has the goods on him. This is the smoking gun. This is the blue dress. She has it, and she and her husband in 1920, because she is become so incensed at him, she tells her husband, and they determine they are going to put the hammer to this one of the president , and they will drive him out of office or drive them into bankruptcy. The party responded. They offered money to her. 5,000. 5000 dollars year. 25,000 up front. Paid trip to the orient. Go far away during the election campaign. Hes in the dry goods business. They tried to argue with her, i can do good if you would let me carry out this president ial election. There was this disagreement there. She is pretty much out of the picture at that point. I argue that is the end of the relationship, but it is the end of all the relationships. Many might suggest that were other relationships. Other names have been heard. I do not find a credible. Was a child. Florence had a child. Was that an issue . It is interesting. This is a sad story. She married to escape her overwhelmingly powerful father. We alluded to that. We dont actually have any records she literally married this man. But she certainly a lot with them and they had a child. He was someone who had a difficult past and future. He left her. He was a drunk. There she was trying to raise this boy on her own. Her father steps in and says you cant do this. I will take over. She was a single mother who taught the nl. Who taught piano. She was making money doing that, but not enough. She has to live with her father. When she marries her husband, or maybeusband, her first, she divorces from pete. This is the first or second case of divorce in ohio. First divorced first lady. He doesnt live very long after his Young Children are born. It is an interesting story. It is him and that could have humanized the hardings. She doesnt want to acknowledge this. Issue she didnt want brought up in the election. She tries to downplay it. I have not found evidence that the children were invited to the therese, or that wasnt much of a public presence. On why she the story didnt raise her son . It had to do with this issue of being a single mother, and not a wealthy one. She didnt have the money . You probably could have done it. She was trying to. There were issues at the time, the interesting thing was that when she married warren, marshall seems to have lived parley with them and probably with their grandfather. It is an interesting relationship they worked out. She doesnt seem that maternal. I think that is part of that. Your original question has to do with the 1920 campaign. Doesnt become an issue . Not inng divorced was favor of the time. It is a case of mutually assured destruction. Is the first divorced person to run for president. He had been married once before. His wife had mental problems. He marries again. There is no great scandal. Marries a much younger woman. Yes. They are not about to bring that up. If they had brought up the immense hardship which florence had to go through, and she spent a great deal of time not dealing with until she gets into the there could have been more sympathy generated for her. Hard. Fe is tremendously take away the infidelities. She comes from the richest family in town. With this go and live fellow when she is pregnant at the time of the marriage. When she gets back to town, abandoned, it is on Christmas Eve. She has to hitch a ride on a train on Christmas Eve to get home. Then she is afraid to go see her in to annd must break abandoned home to spend the night. She sees her father, and its no i will not help you. The deals brokered after quite a while. I will take your son. Not you. This is like downeys. This is like dw griffith and lillian gish. 19thcentury melodrama. It happened to her. This is a very hard life. The illness. This series of things. In that way, shes a sympathetic person because she is a survivor. A think you are right. Going to phone calls, high bill. Thank you for taking my call. I have always thought Florence Harding was misaligned regardless of the scandals in the administration. I think she was probably very opinionated and very bossy. Came, iible rumors that am sure you will discuss them later, that she plays in the presidency. I think she was probably in the top 10 first ladys because of her accomplishments and the amount of first that she had. Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate you and your guests for the job youre doing. We cant leave in 1920 campaign without making note of it along the way. The is the first election first lady can vote for her husband. How important was the womans vote in 1920 . It is very important. The number of women voters in 1916, by 1920 the number of actual voters jumped to 25 million because women were voting. Was a significant shift. It is also important in the election. Florence become someone who is attuned. She has been attuned as a woman, a single mother. She is someone who is attend the plight of women and the opportunities that women are going to get now that they are voters. She is interested in womens involvement in politics. She listens closely to many who come to the white house. The vote itself is a moment of real triumph for her. She is there at the front porch. She travels 25,000 miles with him after they leave the front porch. She is reaching out, there are number of problems. She is excited about womens possibilities. There is a quote you can perhaps allude to, where she talks about how thrilled she is to see women succeeding in active in politics, wanting to cultivate that. They vote they break the boat down by sex in 1920. I believe the hardingcoolidge team does well. To then advantage republicans. Use the prescenes in massachusetts where the immigrant areas do not do as well. It is the Republican Party which puts the amendment through. The south is not particularly into it. Neither is the traditional immigrant culture. It is the native american or older stock, republican areas to more interested in putting suffragette. Is something which boosts harding that year. He is a hell of a lot better looking than james cox. This is the first president ial election that had radio coverage as a result. The reported the Election Results across the nation. Harding liked astrology. It was to her very important way information, gathering strategies. She had a relationship with an astrologer. Madame marcia. She wasnt alone in this. Interesting theory at the time. Lots of people believe this. If anything, people were more criticized who were following astrology than even now. Nevertheless, she found in porton. It shows up in her diaries. It shows up in her writings. Of course, madame marcia told her that harding was going to , but he was going to die in office. Decides all the same that shes going to back into the help and make sure this happens. It does seem to have an uncanny effect on her relationship as first lady. Wife see in 1909, jewelers goes to madame marcia and g prediction, but she ends up being the second wife to Woodrow Wilson. I was wondering why mrs. Harding was a wellliked but respected. That is an interesting question. You are suggesting that her to notity is understood be very high, but her respectability is high. It is interesting. Iss gets into the discussion where she falls as a first lady. Mentioneden, it was she was not very maternal. I would disagree with that. I think of her relationship with the men who worked for her. On the same note, perhaps she was kind of a hard person to be around. She could be strong and perhaps difficult, more a year than yang with her husband. I actually have found in reading her papers and looking at her to be much more likable. There was a kindness about her. There was a caring nest. Had many causes she believed in. We can talk more about that. She should be both respected and liked. Likes was she an early day nancy reagan . There are number of aspects that connect with modern president s. A happy partng in of the 1920 campaign. Accusations about Warren Hardings heritage. That goes back to the friction between harding and his fatherinlaw. The rumors have been going around that part of the country for a while about the harding family. Roseheory now is that it werese the hardings abolitionists. When you did that, people started rumors about you. The rumors would be that the hardings were part black. These rumors were floating around. He the reasons why doesnt trust her judgment and men after the first marriage. Also, he believes harding is part black. He is vociferous about it. I will not print his language. He goes around town saying what he thinks harding is. He gets used to harding, but the stories do not go aw