To see what happened back in 20002003 in columbia, to see what happened in 2009 with the agent in bogota, fantasy cartagena and then to see cartagena. This is our opportunity to make sure that this culture there is no doubt that employees know that this is unacceptable and see what will happen to them. That is why firing the three employees, agents after cartagena sets the tone for what happens from here on. Mr. Meadows it might if it wasnt reinforced in other ways. You keep coming back to cartagena. It may be the only time that there have been people that have actually been disciplined for Improper Conduct would you agree . You keep running back to this as a good example, but yet your directive didnt come out until two years after that event. You were bragging about your directive that you sent out did that go out in 2014 . Ms. Leonhart yes. Mr. Meadows so why, if you were concerned about the culture, would instnt it have gone out immediately or is it that the press has started to report it . Ms. Leonhart we had discussions , the executive staff, on what things we should put in place. We started putting things in place in 2012 mr. Meadows so is it your testimony that it took you two years to figure out what to put in a directive . Ms. Leonhart no, we drafted that after a working group got together to decide what takes we needed to put in place what steps we needed to put in place. We drafted that on the heels of the cartagena case, being able to show here is what happens if you partake in this behavior. We had the disciplinary case finalized. We went out with a series of things. We had already put additional training, every basic agent training every intel analyst training. Mr. Meadows let me do one followup. I have recently believe that some of the people that you are today saying should have been fired i have reason to believe that some of them have actually gotten promotions and bonuses and have gotten new assignments. Would you agree with that . Ms. Leonhart i know that a number of them were promoted between the activity in 2000 and when it came to light in 2010. I can tell you that sense, the allegations were raised that since the allegations were raised there have been no promotions. As tomatoes no bonuses mr. Meadows no bonuses . Were there bonuses given to some of them . Ms. Leonhart i know that there were bonuses given to the regional director. I dont know about bonuses i dont know about mr. Meadows some bonuses were given to people directly involved in this that most americans find offensive. Ms. Leonhart no. Mr. Meadows you said you just didnt know. Ms. Leonhart the regional director that got bonuses was not directly involved in this. I dont know as to the other employees. Mr. Meadows so is it possible they got bonuses . Ms. Leonhart it is very possible. Mr. Meadows if you would give without names because obviously that is critical would you agree today to give the name and the number of people involved to the oig so he can report back to this committee on how many of those people got bonuses . When you agree to do that . I find that is reinforcing a bad behavior. Would you do that . Ms. Leonhart i will work with the department who is going to be giving you Additional Information here shortly to see about adding that in. Mr. Meadows so we can get bonus information to see if these all got bonuses these people got bonuses. Ms. Leonhart i will discuss it with the department. Mr. Meadows was that a no . Are you going to give it to us or not . Ms. Leonhart if i am able to give it to you you will get it. Mr. Meadows mr. Chairman we are asking you to provide the information to the Inspector General. Will you or will you not do that . Ms. Leonhart if it was up to me to give it to you you are the administrator who do you report to . Ms. Leonhart these documents going to your committee we are asking you to give them to the Inspector General. Ms. Leonhart if the Inspector General wants that, we will give it. I would be happy to take that information. Will be Inspector General report back to this committee at his earliest convenience . It was suggested in the more the more senior person was directly involved. Ms. Leonhart he was not involved in the activity. He didnt report it to the right place so he was involved. Ms. Leonhart he was involved. Mr. Chaffetz can we also added to their promotions title changes . Bonuses, title changes promotions is that fair . Ms. Leonhart we will work to get you that information. I think the chair for their patience and i yield back. Mr. Chaffetz did you want to add something . The chair recognizes the gentleman from wisconsin recognized for five minutes. One of the things that is a little bit frustrating about this hearing is that you have expressed concerns about some of the Civil Service rejections. If we didnt have serv Civil Service protections you could fire anyone who wasnt on the right side politically. Nevertheless you have expressed frustration and i believe some of the people who are expressing the greatest anger maybe the first to fight a new change in those civilservice laws. Could you give us some suggestions that you may have to make it easier to remove and employ one thing that frustrates me, we have a situation in which people are behaving outrageously. If a latenight talk show host made it up you wouldnt believe it but it really happened. Things are obviously wrong. It makes me wondering what is happening. Could you give me any suggestions about civilservice laws . Ms. Leonhart if you look at giving us the same exemption as the fbi, i think we then would be able to make sure that the penalties were appropriate. Mr. Grothman what would they be . Ms. Leonhart i think this is outrageous behavior, and knowing the facts of the case as i do, i would be concerned with the appeal rights and being able to sustain it in a merit system. I believe that some of the behavior would raise to the level of removal. Mr. Grothman so they should be fired . Ms. Leonhart just like cartagena, yes. Mr. Grothman ok. Could you just described to the public today why you feel this behavior was wrong so i get a sense . Ms. Leonhart it is wrong on a number of levels. Prostitution itself. Human trafficking is the second highest illegal market besides drug trafficking. Look at all the efforts of the government has been putting into especially in recent years to go after the Human Trafficking threat. That is number one. Number two it is so far away from the type of conduct and ethical behavior that is required of someone to carry a badge as a federal agent. In the security clearance issues , putting people and our information at risk. They are all reasons that i this is appalling. Mr. Grothman it is appalling. Is it right that some of this stuff was brought to the attention of colombian authorities . Ms. Leonhart actually, the colombian authorities by the time this was discovered on the corruption of the two Police Officers the police did a great job in helping us convict them and also they removed a number of Colombian NationalPolice Officers who were involved in the same activity. Mr. Grothman ok. I will ask the same question to mr. Horowitz. He seems a little will you comment on how you feel we should change . Still getting protections, what changes for outrageous conduct, or even competent conduct . Mr. Horowitz within the current structure, there needs to be prompt reporting, prompt investigating, prompt disciplinary action, and follow through. That is within the current structure that can be done. You mentioned the Colombian National example. Those of thousands that were learned about from the Colombian National officers who were corrupt and disclosed the information related to the 20012004 events. All the dea officials involved in those events down in colu olombia new nothing about it. It was years later when they disclosed that. That is a problem, a serious problem that no one thought that was reportable to headquarters and there needed to be follow through. Whether it is the Current System or whether it is under an fbi regime, that was the fundamental flaw. No one thought it was important enough for serious enough to raise to headquarters. Mr. Grothman it is good that the colombian people have higher standards. Mr. Horowitz these were the corrupt officers. Mr. Grothman but they felt it was wrong and once they got arrested a were happy to comment and report out on what had occurred. We now recognize the gentleman from alabama. Mr. Palmer thank you. Is there any policy against turning over dea weapons or communication devices to foreign agents or any nondea or nonus official . Ms. Leonhart if i hear you write, you are asking about prohibition on turning over a device . Mr. Palmer not having immediate supervision of the weapons and devices that belong to an agent. Ms. Leonhart number one securing your weapon that is required. Mr. Palmer i am asking is there any policy tat the dea that would result in any kind of reprimand or punishment for not having immediate supervision of your weapons and communication devices . Yes or no . Ms. Leonhart it could fall under mr. Palmer yes or no . You either have a penalty for not securing there our things that could be used against other agents or other countries. Ms. Leonhart it could fall under poor judgment there are a number of areas, policies. Mr. Palmer it has already been pointed out that poor judgment is not an official criteria. You talked about these corrupt Police Officers. Is it true that the same officer who helped facilitate these parties may have helped pay for the prostitutes, had control of the agentsweapons and communication, their badges . Ms. Leonhart part of the report is that, while some of the agents were involved in that activity mr. Palmer yes or no. Ms. Leonhart yes. Mr. Palmer as egregious as as the activities the agents were involved in, which is in many respects a crime against humanity could you not find a reason to reprimand or fire agents for turning over their weapons and Communications Devices to foreign nationals . For crying out loud, china is investing in south America Latin america. They will spend another 250 billion over the next 10 years. Did it not occur to anyone that this might also be a National Security breach, a problem along that line . Ms. Leonhart someone doing a security adjudication could look at that and find that those are reasons why a security clearance should be suspended and revoked. Mr. Palmer were they, for any of these people . Ms. Leonhart for bogota, the clearances were never looked at. Mr. Palmer who is your immediate supervisor . Who has the authority to hold you accountable from the other side of the dea . Ms. Leonhart the Deputy Attorney general. Mr. Palmer have you discussed this the with the Deputy Attorney general . Ms. Leonhart i briefed him on these cases. Mr. Palmer did you advice on how to proceed . I want to ask you more specifically did the Deputy Attorney general express any reservations about how the dea has handled this, and was there any discussion about how to respond to the request of the Inspector General . Ms. Leonhart i have had multiple conversations about turning over documents to the oig. They have given us good guidance on that. Mr. Palmer so they give you good guidance, they approved of not turning over the documents that the Inspector General requested . Ms. Leonhart we didnt know we were worried about the victims names and how to handle that. Mr. Palmer mr. Horowitz, you have said that there have been numerous instances where the fbi has felt you mentioned about the dea when you were here in january, you were talking about delaying production material. I asked you then, did this restaurant structure and . Did this rise to obstruction . You said it had a significant effect but did not go as far as obstruction. I want to ask you that again are you willing to call instruction . Mr. Horowitz what occurred back in 2013 when we were given redacted documents impeded and obstructed our ability to move forward with this investigation in a timely manner. And it took months, and it required me to elevate it to the leadership. When i elevated it, we got the reaction. But i didnt have to do that with the atf in the marshal service. Mr. Palmer i am not trying to put you on the spot, but mr. Horowitz i think in this instance we were obstructed. Mr. Palmer is there information you would like to get from the dea . Mr. Horowitz at this point we made the decision to move forward even though we have concerns about production, because this was so important to put forward. And frankly, at this point, we have other reports to get to that we still have the same issues on. Mr. Ballmer is there Additional Information you would like to have . Mr. Horowitz on this issue no. Mr. Chaffetz i recognize the gentleman from massachusetts. Mr. Lynch thank you. I am not sure if the memo from attorney general holder has been admitted to evidence, but in case it hasnt ok, great. In the attorney generals memo for all Department Personnel dated april 10 2016, it says that the solicitation of prostitutes creates a greater demand for Human Trafficking victims, and a consequent increase in the number of minors tracked into commercial sex slavery you agree with that . Mr. Horowitz i certainly think it raises the risks. Ms. Leonhart i certainly doms. Leonhart . Mr. Lynch under the department of Homeland Security regs and statutes what were talking about here is solicitation of prostitution it is clearly within the definition of Human Trafficking. Yet the dea is charged i know we were down in Central America recently and that is a big part of the deas mission, to combat Human Trafficking. We actually give grants to the department to the dea and to the fbi and the state department as part of trafficking victims protection act and the violence against women act. We give grants to your agencies to prevent Human Trafficking prevent prostitution. Yet the very people, the very departments that are getting this money are in this case engaging in Human Trafficking. It brings me back to the of believability of what has happened here. The on believability of what has happened. Under the factors that we use in determining discipline, one of the factors is the seriousness of the offense and whether the offense is indirect fire relation of the agency policy. The notoriety of the offense. Whether that offense prohibits that individual from doing their job. In this case, we have dea agents still on the job that are receiving federal grants to stop trafficking who have already engaged and committed to trafficking. I dont see the end of this. I dont see the end of this, if we leave the situation the way it is. So, i went believe this would be necessary, but we may need to amend title five. We may have to put in a provision that says that hold you accountable. Right now you can pass it off to someone below you and you dont have to accept responsibility and you havent. That is clear. But if we adopted an amendment to title five that said outrageous and or criminal conduct in direct violation of an agencys mission would give you the ability to fire someone, that would solve this. And the failure to report. Managers of the lower levels did not report, did not pick this up the chain of command. We need to hold them accountable, too and there should be a provision which shows refusal or failure to report an offense like this will give the agency and the government the ability to claw tensions, clawback salaries, accepted by those individuals violating the law. It is a shame that we have to get to this, but i think that may be where we are at right now. Mr. Chaffetz i have a series of questions as we wrap up. You became you try to paint a picture of this as a decade ago. When did you become the deputy administrator . Ms. Leonhart march, 2004. Mr. Chaffetz how many Deputy Ministers are there . Ms. Leonhart one. Mr. Chaffetz so you were the sole demonstrator. That you were confirmed in 2010. It is pretty safe to say youve had your finger on the pulse of this agency for more than a decade. Correct . Ms. Leonhart yes. Mr. Chaffetz one of the things he said that is troubling in a long list, and was brought up by mr. Lynch, is the idea that this was in response to the gentleman over here asking questions about those that were directly involved i want you to seriously consider, i won all these departments and agencies to seriously consider in my mind, they are directly involved because they failed to report. You may not have been the person who was directly, fully engaged in the inappropriate behavior, once you know about it you have a responsibility to deal with it under policy, correct . Ms. Leonhart correct. Mr. Chaffetz so that offers me great concern. To understand that . Do you understand that . Ms. Leonhart i do understand, i was just making the point that he wasnt involved in the behavior. He failed to report and that is what his shortcomings were. Mr. Chaffetz part of the aborted behavior is covering it. That is the concern. That is what it is it is covering it up by not reporting it up chain. As mr. Horowitz pointed out, the only removal. It is the only one. Removal is the only option. So let me ask you. Do you believe that soliciting prostitution is Sexual Harassment . Ms. Leonhart i believe that prostitution is Sexual Misconduct. Mr. Chaffetz what is the difference between Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment . Ms. Leonhart Sexual Harassment is a workplace behavior. Sexual harassment is something that affects the employees in the workplace, or an employee. Sexual misconduct is ou