It doesnt take much money to put on the table no disrespect to get president s interested in changing their ways. Im impressed with the focus you have had bringing in low income students. Is there a way to do it that does not discourage schools from reaching out and taking at risk students . That is often the critique you are going to make it less likely that you have low income, at risk students and you get punished for longer graduation times. Is there a way that risk adjusts for schools reaching out to these populations . Absolutely. We should incentivize universities to do what is right and what works and we are not doing enough of that. Idea that we would put great emphasis upon rating schools based on income levels after graduation is inherently problematic coming given the rest are dichter of a student income is their Family Income before they enroll in the first place. To do is find ways to reward institutions and reward students who are making a difference against the odds. Currently we dont do that. Theres a great incentive with regards to National Rankings like u. S. News world report to turn your back on low income and at risk students. One of the ironies with up 22n rates of Percentage Points as we have ine down over this time rankings because we are educating more students at lower cost. Havegores s. A. T. Scores declined because we are opening our doors to student to a previously succeeding and those are things that count against you in those National Rankings. I think theres a way to take the billions of dollars we are using and incentivizing the kinds of programs in a way that is not descriptive and not overly punitive, suggesting that the outlier schools that have the worst retention rate may for a time have a portion of their federal aid compromised. Hearings onseparate this topic, but i hope it is something we entertain as we move forward with the reconsideration of the authorization. This is very enlightening. Is that variable model open source . Any University Access that online . Is it proprietary . It is proprietary, but there are caveats to that. Those kind of publicprivate partnerships are an important part of accelerating change. It enabled us to do things more quickly than if we developed it on our own. Follows eat is as there are ways to transfer these kinds of innovations more quickly. Includesation Alliance Universities like Georgia State, texas, michigan state. Usinge this model Predictive Analytics and transfer to all of those universities. Because of all the work that was done already, costs have introduced rightly and in one year, all 11 of those universities representing 400,000 students have predict the analyticsbased tracking systems that are similar the Community College system in louisiana or new york may already be doing it. If they wanted to take your open source bank, how much would it cost does it cost them is it like linen and i get it just by downloading or do they have to diet mark im sure there are costs to put in the data. Involved in costs some institutions are developing systems on their own and some are developing their own. Like georgiaution state, to have a tracking system like this would cost about 150,000 a year. Thats difficult in a time of constrained budgets. How much is required in terms of data entry . Work. Is a good amount of you have to have clean and accurate data to put into the system, but that is not a major undertaking. At Georgia State, it took about ask months. Issomebody mentioned this particular for Georgia State. If you have 800 aerials, you have a robust data set. Other institutions are taking it on quickly, so you make me think it does have general applicability. I think so. These are indices indices that would transfer to other institutions. You were talking about why the doe does not publish hell grant Graduation Rates but it turns out they were required to. I spoke to the staff and a are not going to publish the rates until 2019 because once they were instructed to do so, they began collecting the data. Proxyes me think there is data. Let me complement you ive never had testimony with so many requisites. You are an academic in every sense of the word. Atre must be some way to get this data as opposed to we were instructed to end six years later, we are going to give you a report. We can know the Graduation Rates now as opposed to waiting for a secure longitudinal study . Many institutions calculate those rates on their own using their own internal Research Departments because they needed for institutional decisionmaking. Demand those could studies come up, i dont think there is a way in terms of the short timeframe from a research perspective. Data from 30 states including tennessee. They collect data on Health StudentGraduation Rates. What about forprofits . X i dont know. Is not available to the general public . I think a letter from this committee that the secretary of education we have already requested that. Andnstructed it in the bill six years from now, they are going to tell us and i find it incredible that we are blind to that which you generally know. I yield back. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Im pleased to be a part of the discussion today. Useof the things we still in the terminology is the phrase nontraditional student. That we find the majority of students are what we used to call nontraditional students. We will ultimately have to change that human claytor. Some reals us with challenges in terms of making we have the policies that increase the chance of these students completing their degrees or certificates on time with a lot less that but also avoid implementing unitive measures that would serve to impede their success. , i was of this year proud to into deuce with 13 of my colleagues in the senate and congressman bobby scott in the house a bill called the Americas College promise act. It sees a new federal state partnership that would waive tuition and fees at community statess, with contributing one dollar for every three dollars of a federal investment. Program,irst dollar meaning students can use pell grants and other Financial Aid to cover the many financial demands of the tainting and education. Im very interested in the questions that have been imposed in the discussion we have been having today because when you start debate on a new idea, we dont need to repeat the mistakes of the past. We can incorporate what seems to be working. Americas College Promise doesnt just require states to invest financially. It asks them to make reforms like we have been talking about expanding student supported services, improving remediation, stressing career pathways. These are reforms we will help this do we hope the student will we hope will help the student complete their course work and be prepared. What i want to ask you to weigh in a little further on his we have a choice of making this prescriptive and mandatory or providing a menu and requiring these reforms be a top did as a pro it so that it is not a onesizefitsall. If we are going to get it right from the beginning as we initiate this debate on covering the first two years of community i want toal college, hear where you see that balance and i want to start i would welcome all of your comments on this. Thank you. I grew up in a state and will reside another month in the state where the state constitution says Higher Education should be free as practicable. I think while we do not have free tuition, we have always had among the lowest tuition in the nation and i think that has made a difference for our state, for middle income kids like me, and i think thats why the emphasis on making Higher Education acceptable tuition is not the only costs and in ours, that the most challenging cost. Thats why onesizefitsall may not work everywhere, but the notion of making it acceptable for low income and middleclass students is important. You have to hold us accountable but we have told us accountable to create the structures that not just access because the open door then becomes a revolving door and we have to create structures and i would emphasize is important to look at structures that go across institutions. Thats why im so proud of the work we have been doing around articulation agreements between all 58 colleges. Students all where through the cracks. I think the federal government can do more to incentivize and encourage those kinds of statewide agreements, embracing the swirl that is the reality of students going across multiple institutions. Thank you. I spent most of my life pushing affordability, but i would couple that with what you said before. We have a lot of people going to college the highest ever in a recession, but we dont have the reform necessary. Whether it is the austan model or some of the models done at Georgia State or the Tennessee Tech center that has an 80 placement rate, i would make models or menus where there is evidence that they actually succeed in delivery. Menus where theres evidence of success and there is the of evidence out there for colleges like Georgia State and austan who have done this very successfully. The one caution i was at is that we have run lots of data and analytics at Georgia State and we found there is a sweet spot where if students have their cost covered, their completion rates are lower than those who have a little skin in the game. I think the proposal overall is a and what the between 7 and 15 to 20 of the total cost, if thats what the student has to pay, they have more motivation and persistence. Thatwould just add programs need to be targeted. Its unlikely anyone of the programs we talked about today that are evidencebased will be applicable to all institutions and students. It is important to give the time and resources in order to develop programs that will work. Georgia State University is a great example. It took them a decade to get where they are and its in wharton to remember that. These changes do not happen immediately and overnight. Mr. Chairman and thank you for holding this hearing and reminding us to be cautious about onesizefitsall. As i listened to the testimony today, im reminded that policy is one thing and implementation is something else. You can have the best policy in the world and terrible implementation and you dont get the results you need. I think we compound that problem by measuring the wrong thing. This gainful employment stuff has made it difficult for a number of our institutions because the correlation on income is what your familys income looked like, not what the institution looked like, but we decided that would be a good way to measure outcomes. Theres a lot to Pay Attention to in the field, but i want to spend my time Georgia State has done some incredible things and amazing accomplishments. Im wondering if you can describe what the gps Program Looks Like from the students perspective. How do i know im at Georgia State in it of some lace else . That my experience would be different . Top 30,000 students, 800 factors, but from the students perspective, what does that look like us to mark x from the students perspective, we have supported program paths for all students. Challenge is we were not enforcing it before. Now students who are following their maps and doing every thing right will hear very little from a cousin no alerts are going off. Students who are making mistakes will hear from us almost immediately. We are concentrating the precious resources we havent and more, advisers among those who need them most. They are getting together a divisors more quickly and weve made a move to bring the advisers to the classroom the first fall weeks of the semester get to knownts their advisors on a one to one basis. But the interactions are much more personalized. Its not just come in and see me and we will shoot the breeze. Its i saw you registered for your spring class. You are in the wrong sequence. As a result, the students are more responsive and get to know the staff on a more personal level. If the student is struggling, the system can be annoying because they are going to have lots of interventions. So weve been pulling our students since we went live and not a single one has complained. Tell me what would be away from the map at you reach out to the students. One simple example of verdict of analytics is we found the first grade a student gets in what becomes his or her major is predictive of their graduation rate. Their firsta c in course, they are graduating at a 25 clip. In the past, we would do nothing with that c student to upper level work that more demanding and whatever weaknesses were revealed become exacerbated. , across the whole curriculum is we trace those markers and have an immediate intervention. We bring them in, they go to tutoring, whatever we diagnose is the problem. The idea is correct the issue before they waste money and time and themselves at risk. How we measure i success for institutions and student. Before we passed the reauthorization of what used to be called no child left behind, which measured the wrong thing. It said these are Successful Schools because these kids are at a high status of these are ailing and these kids were actually growing while we are there. We are telling the world where these teachers are driving success are failures and one thing you said was we are to reward students and institutions who are making a difference against the odds. How do we do that . Weed to incentivize in lots of ways from federal Grant Programs which are often this note upon institutions meeting those markers in the most traditional sense it has the highest Graduation Rates but maybe not the greatest struggles. Be much more flexible about the way we assign Financial Aid. It is in many cases a onesizefitsall model where students who are not meeting progress markers are denied aid and others are denied others are granted it. Aree could show students doing what they need to do with the knee context of their ability and resources and making significant progress. If you dont mind a followup after the panel to get your list. Chairman and mr. Thank you all for being here. Know helping students should be a high priority and i know you see this. Ive read your testimony and provided a lot of good information about programs colleges can adopt to improve outcomes. But only a few colleges are showing real leadership in this area. To focus on federal policies that can push schools harder in that direction. Mr. Jones, your Organization Works with golden states to help improve outcomes for students. Do colleges have enough incentive to improve Student Success . They do not. Wascally, the old incentive what we call the 10 day or 14 day count. Based on if money you were there on the 10th day and the 11th day did make a difference. States have moved rapidly to change that in the federal in theent is powerful money you provide both in the hell money and other Grant Programs. Incentives to graduate more students and graduate them in a more timely way because they will incur less that, get them through remediation, those are incentives you could easily do and put in programs. This t to underline putting financial incentives in place so schools have a reason to invest, not just getting the students in the door but having them succeed. When we talk about improving Student Success, we are not just talking about getting students. Hrough a Graduation Ceremony we are talking about making sure students leave college with an education that helps them succeed. So i want to turn to you on this which colleges are doing a better or worse job at making sure students are paired for good jobs after they graduate . Themat is an increasingly orton topic in my world. Where i think the scalable growth is is in using ada and analytics to help us advise and promote with career and postgraduation knowledge with our students. ,e have now as part of our warm and alliance with a vendor tracking data for job listings across the country every day. As students come in at Georgia State and pick majors, they can offer, the major we 25 to 30 careers that are most likely to result from empirical basis from entering. They can see with the starting salary is like aboutnderstand your point helping students find what career paths may be most important, but i heard you say earlier or know that you referred to predatory institutions. We are not just talking about how we got more students to study things that are going to whereful, its about institutions are focus. Would you like to say a word about that . X absolutely. Theee at Georgia State backend of some of these predatory practices because our student population is largely at risk. Two students arriving this fall is transfer students who already have 100 house and dollars of debt. We hear the stories and ask what happens when they get to campus and its usually a trail of rogan promises and misleading claims, often times the students have very little usable credit. Approached byts lenders who say not to fill out the fast one because its complicated but fill out this sheet of paper and get the money and never explain the difference. 100,000 dollars of debt and very little credit that will transfer. Forprofit colleges seem more ink see more interested shareholder success. Four students who go to a forprofit college default. That means they are failing at least one in five of their students. Let me see if i can wrap this up with a note. Policies would give forprofit colleges and incentive to improve outcomes for their students . You should look at the cre