People over the years had found in canada there was clearly a fossil marsh. A place that used to be a swamp dried out and they found all sorts of happy swamp fossils there, ferns and animals and fish that were recognized. People realized with the age of the rocks as computed by traditional scientists this would be a reasonable place to look for in animal, a fossil of an animal that lived there. They found several specimens. They made a prediction this animal would be found and it was found. So far it cannot make predictions and show results. Here is an externally one that i find remarkable. There are certain fish that have them are remarkable ability to have sex with other fish, traditional fish sex and they can have sex with themselves. One of the old questions in life science, everybody, one of the chin strokers is why does any organism whether you are and ash tree or ec jelly, a squid, apartment, why does anyone have sex . There are more bacteria in your tummy right now than there are humans on earth. Bacteria do not bother with that. They can split themselves and half and getter done, lets go. Think of all the trouble arose bush goes to to make a flower and thorns, why does anybody bother with all that . The answer seems to be your enemies and your enemies are not lions and tigers and bears. Oh my. No. Your enemies are germs and parasites. That is what is going to get you. Germs and parasites. My First Cousins son died tragically from essentially the flu. This is not some story i heard of. This apparently the virus had the right genes to attack so when you have sex you have a new set of genes, a new mixture. People studied these top men knows and they found the one to reproduce sexually had fewer parasites than the ones that reproduced on their own. This black spot disease. There is more. Any populations with putting and so on when river pound ponds get isolated and the river flows again, in between some of these fish will have sex with other fish sometimes and they will have sex on their own that happens asexually. In this fish the ones that are in between, they have an intermediate number of infections. The explanation provided by evolution made a prediction and the prediction or prediction is extraordinary and subtle but there it is. How else would you explain it . And to mr. Hamm and his followers this is something that we in science one. Want the ability to predict and your assertion that there is some difference between the natural laws they used to observe the world today and the natural laws that existed 4000 ago is extraordinary and unsettling. I travel around and i have a great many family members in danville, virginia. One of the u. S. s most livable cities, it is lovely. I was starting along and there was a sign in front of a church from a big bang theory, you got to be kidding me, god. Why would someone at the church, pastor put that sign up unless he or she did not believe the big bang was a real thing. I want to review briefly with everybody why we except in the outside world, why we except the big bang. Hubble there you go. You got to be kidding me, god. Edwin was in pasadena. You can see where the rose parade goes. In the early 1900s, the people who selected the siteexcellent site. The clouds and smog are below you and edwin hubble sat there at this very big telescope studying the heavens. He found the stars are moving apart. The stars are moving apart. He was not sure why but it was clear that the stars are moving further apart all the time. So people talked about it for a couple of decades. And eventually another astronomer almost a couple of decades fred hoyle remarked it was like there was a big bang. There was an explosion. This is to say since everything is moving apart it is reasonable that it one time they were altogether. There is a place from whence or whence these things expanded and it was a remarkable insight. People went still questioning it for decades. Conventional scientists have been questioning it for decades. These two researchers wanted to listen for radio signals from space. Radio astronomy. This is why we have visible light for our eyes and theres a whole other bunch of waves of light that are much longer. The microwaves in your oven or about that long. The radar at the airport is about that long. Your fm radio signal is about like this. Am radio signals are the size of several soccer fields. They went out listening and there was this his hiss that would not go away. The thought there were some loose connector. They rescrewed it and made it tight. They thought it was pigeon droppings that had affected the reception of this horn, it is called. This thing is still hair is still there. It is at a National Historic site. They had found this cosmic Background Sound that was predicted by astronomers. Astronomers running the numbers, doing math, predicted that in the cosmos would be left over this echo, this energy from the big bang that would be detectable and they detected it. We built the cosmic observatory for background emissions, the kobe spacecraft and it matched exactly the astronomers predictions. Along that line is some interest in the age of the earth. Right now it is generally agreed that the big bang happened their 13. 7 billion years ago. What we can do on earth, these elements that we all know on the periodic table of chemicals, even ones we do not now were created when stars explode. I attended a lecture by hans beata. The ones that interest me are our good friends rubidium and strontium. A neutron becomes a proton and goes up the periodic table. It turns to rock and locks the rubidium and strontium into place so by careful assay, by careful by being diligent, you can tell when the rock froze. You can tell how old the rubidium and strontium are and you can get an age for the earth. When that stuff falls on fossils, you can get a very good idea of how old the fossils are. I encourage you all to go to nebraska on go to ash fall state park and see the astonishing fossils. It looks like a hollywood movie. There are rhinoceroses and three toed horses in nebraska. None of those animals are extant today and they were buried catastrophically by a volcano in what is now idaho, illest on park. It is a remarkable thing. I can tell you as a northwestern are from around Mount Saint Helens, i am on the Mount Saint Helens board. When it goes off the gives a great deal of gas. It is toxic and knocks these animals off. The go to a watering hole and then when the ash comes they were all buried. It is an extreme replace. If in the bad old days you had heart problems, they would write away cut you open. Now we use a drug based on rubidium to look at the inside of your heart without cutting you open. My kentucky friends, i want you to consider this. Right now, there is no place in the commonwealth of kentucky to get a degree in this kind of nuclear medicine. This kind of Drugs Associated with that. I hope you find that troubling. I hope youre concerned about that. You want scientifically literate students in the commonwealth for everybody. You can i get this here. He have to go out of state. As far as the distance to stars, understand, this is very well understood. It is february. We look at a star in february and measure and a goal and wait six months, we look at that same star again and we measure that angle. It is the same way that carpenters built this old thing and surveyors survey the land. You can figure out how far away it is, that star and the stars beyond it and the stars beyond that. There are billions of stars. Billions of stars, more than 6000 light years from here. A light year is a unit of distance, not a unit of time. There are billions of stars. How could there be billions of stars more distant than 6000 years if the world is only 6000 years Old Western Market is an extra night claim. There is another astronomer who remarked first about the reasonable man. Is it reasonable that we have ice older by a factor of 100 then you claim the earth is . We have trees that have more tree rings in the earth is old. We have rocks with rubidium and strontium and uranianuranium and potassium argon dating that are far older than you claim the earth is. Could anyone have built an ark that would sustain better than any other ark anyone was able to build. So if you are asking me and i got the impression you were, is the creation model viable . I say no. Absolutely not. One last thing. You may not know that in the u. S. Constitution and the founding fathers, it is the sentence to promote the progress of science and useful arts, kentucky voters. Voters who might be watching online in places like texas, tennessee, oklahoma, kansas. You do not want to raise a generation of science students who do not understand how we know our place in the cosmos, our place in space. Who do not understand natural law. We need to innovate to keep the u. S. Where it is in the world. Thank you very much. [applause] that is a lot to take in. I hope everyone is holding up well. That is a lot of information. There is a fiveminute rebuttal time for each to address the other ones comments and there will be a fiveminute counter rebuttal after that. Things will start moving quickly so this point in particular. If you would like to begin with your fiveminute rebuttal first. I will deal with some of them. I will you mentioned the igf a couple of times. You cannot observe the age of the earth and i would say that comes under what we call historical origin science. To understand where im coming from, we have built our origins with historical science on the bible. I hebrew word was used that means an ordinary day. When you add up the genealogies, from adam abraham, you have got 2000 years to the resin. That is how we get 6000 years. There is where it comes from just so you know. A lot of people say by the way the earths ages 4. 5 billion years old. We have radioactive decay dating methods that found that. We certainly observe the rate of decay. Whether there is uranium or lead or potassium argon. When you talk about the past we have a problem. In australia there were engineers that were trying to search for coal mine. When dr. Andrew spelling said that to a lab in massachusetts, the used potassium argon dating. He also sent the woods to the radiocarbon section and they were dated 40,000 45,000. There is a problem. Let me give you another example. There is a lot the dome forming after Mount Saint Helens corrupted. A geologist sampled the rock there. He took all rock encrusted and sent it to the same lab created and got a date of 3. 5 million years when he separated the minerals out and used he got 2. 8 million. All these dating methods give all sorts of different dates. We can show two different dates. There is a lot of assumptions. The amounts of the parent and are isotopes in the beginning. Assumption number two, all daughter atoms measured must have been derived in situ radioactive decay. There is a lot of evidence that is not so. Assumption number three, the decay rates remained constant. There is lots of assumptions. There is no dating unit you can use. There is a lot of christians out there who believe in millions of years. I am not saying they are not christian. There is an inconsistency with what the bible teaches. If you believe in millions of years he has got death and bloodshed, suffering, disease because that is what you see in the fossil record. Death is the result of mans sin. The bible makes it clear. Theres the sacrifice pointing toward what happened with jesus christ. If you believe in millions of years as a christian in the fossil record there is evidence of animals eating each other. The bible says in the beginning man and animals were vegetarian. The bible says there are fossilized torrence in the record. These two things cannot be true at the same time. There is hundreds of dating methods out there. 90 of them contradict billions of years. The point is also stating records are not infallible. I would say that the earth is only 6000 years. There is nothing in astronomy. And the thing in geology to contradict of a leaf and a young age for the year earth and the universe. A fiveminute rebuttal. Thank you. Let me start at the beginning. When you find a 45 million old rock on top of the trees, maybe the rock slid on top. That seems a much more reasonable explanation then it is impossible. As far as dating goes the methods are very reliable. One of the mysteries or interesting things that people in my business especially at the Planetary Society are interested, why all the asteroids seem to be so close to the same date. In age. 4. 5 billion years, 4. 6 billion. People expect there is more of a spread. I understand that you take the bible as written in glacier and translate it many times over the last three millennia. It has to be the more accurate, the more reasonable assessment of the natural laws we see. That to me is unsettling, troubling. About the disease thing, have the fish centers done something wrong were they centers to get diseases . That is an extra ordinary claim that takes me past where i am come to bowl. As far as you cannot observe the past, i have to stop you right there. That is what we do in astronomy. All we can do is look at the past. By the way, youre looking at the past right now. The speed of light bounces off of me and gets to your eyes. I am delighted to see that people in the back of the room appear that much younger than the people in the front. This idea that you can separate the natural laws of the past from the natural laws that we have now is at the heart of our disagreement. I do not see how were going to agree with that if you insist that natural laws have changed. It is magical for lack of a better word. I have appreciated magic since i was a kid but it is not what we want in conventional mainstream science. Your assertion that all the animals were vegetarians are for the got on the arc, that is remarkable. I have not spent a lot of time with lions but i can tell they have got teeth that are not set up for broccoli. That these animals were vegetarians until this flood. It is something i would ask you to private provide proof for. I give you the lyons lions teeth. That is not enough evidence for me. If you ever played telephone, wed have a secret and whispered to the next person to the next and things often go wrong. It is reasonable to me that instead of lyons being vegetarians on the ark, lions are lions and the information that you use to create your worldview is not consistent with i is a reasonable man would expect. I want everybody to consider the implications of this. If we accept mr. Him hams point of view that the bible serves as a science text and he and his followers will interpret that for you. I want you to consider what that means. It means that his word or his interpretation of these other words is somehow to be more respected than what you can observe in nature. What you can find in your backyard and kentucky. A troubling and unsettling point of view and it is one i would like you to address when you come back. As far as the five races that you mentioned, it is kind of the same thing. The five races were claimed by people who were of european descent and they said we are the best, check us out and that turns out to be if you have traveled anywhere or done anything not to be that way. He bought much more alike than they are different. I we supposed to take your word instead of what we can observe in the universe around us . Would you like to offer your fiveminute counter rebuttal question mark counter rebuttal . The wood was inside in the basalt. That is why i was making that point. I said we had the rules of logic, the uniformity of nature. That makes sense within a biblical worldview anyway. We can go to experimental silent science because we assume those laws are true and they will be tomorrow. I do want to say this. You said a few times his ken hams view or model. I had video quotes from some scientists. It is dr. There are a lot of creation scientists who agree with what were saying concerning the bible and the bibles cap account of creation. It is not just my model in that sense. There is so much i could say. As i listened to you i believe you are confusing terms and regrind regard to species and times. We are not saying god created species, he created kind. We are not saying species got on the ark, we are saying kind. There is a number of papers on our website with dogs and this one breach with this one and you can look at the papers around the world and connect them and said say that represents one kind. They have predicted probably less than 1000 kinds were on noahs ark. Under 2000 animals. There was plenty of room on the ark. A lot of what you were saying was illustrating my point. You were talking about tree rings and ice layers and kangaroos getting to australia and all sorts of things. We are talking about the past. We did not see those tree rings forming. If you assume one layer a year to much it is like the dating method. You are assuming things in regard to the past that are not necessarily true. Eric i regard to lions and teeth. Most bears are primarily vegetarian. Effort that has sharp teeth. It looks like a savage little creature and it rips and different. Just because it has sharp teeth doesnt mean that it is a mediator. In regard to the [inaudible] the flood was a catastrophic event. Why would you say noah was not skilled . I did not meet him. It is an evolutionary view of origins because you are thinking that people before us are not as good as us. They were civilizations that existed in the past and we cannot understand how they did some of the things they did. Who says noah could not build the big boat . Some of their Research Indicates that some of the wooden boats had three layers into locking so they would not twist like that and leak. We have an exhibit where we have rebuilt one percent of the ark to scale and shows three interlocking layers like that. Concerning the speed of light, i am sure you are aware of the horizon problem. That is from a big bang perspective. Even the secularists have a problem of getting light and radiation out to the universe to exchange with the rest of the universe. Even Background Radiation. 15 billion years, they can only get it about half way and that is why they have inflation theories which means everyone has a problem concerning the light issue. People do not understand that we have some models on our website to help explain those sorts of things. Your counter rebuttal. I am completely unsatisfied. You did not in my view address fundamental questions. 680,000 years of snow ice layers which require wintersummer cycles for lets say you have 2000 kinds instead of seven, that makes the problem even more extraordinary. All flying 11 by 3. 5. We get to 35, 40 species every day that we do not see. They are not extent. We are losing species due to mostly human activity and loss of habitat. As far as know of being an extraordinary shipwright, my family spend their whole life learning to make ships. It is very reasonable perhaps to you that noah had superpowers and was able to build this extraordinary craft with seven family members but to me it is not reasonable. By