House a visit. But there are historical examples when that situation has arisen and when the powers that be have gotten the answer they did not like they went to another consultant who did give them the answer they were looking for in the bridge got built and collapsed. So these are again political on a certain level and people psychology is probably not the proper word, human nature problems. Im a big fan of your work on evolution of design and im wondering your perspective on how infrastructure is going to start to evolve as we go without cars and transport, how to think the roads and things will change after we get these cars off the road . Well if you could get the roads out from under the driver, actually do have a chapter of the and that technology is moving pretty quickly, tana ms. Vehicles self vehicles. The technology is almost basically here, it becomes a Public Policy question at this point, local laws written such that there has to be a driver in the car. What does the driver mean, do the laws just fine driver as a human being . So they get those issues. Similar to those segway issues, the little scooter that you still see them at malls. Is going to be a question of whether there is going to be a will to have these cars, these vehicles. Love you could work for google or somebody, but what are you going to do, as a passenger. Thats true, will that is the way, that is think the future of infrastructure. I mention mention the smart bridges, they are also increasingly talk about materials like asphalt concrete, they can heal itself from cracks in really things that seem almost sciencefiction like now but these will come to pass. Is there right now any when something new is design do they ever think about upkeep . The example i have in my brain right now is the big dig in boston that built all these roads underground, was can happen in 30 years to those roads . Well, good engineers do because they recognize that what they build isnt without faults and isnt without vulnerabilities, but when youre pushing for a new bridge lets say and mostly it would be the politicians and people acting like politicians, they usually want to present something that is going to be as inexpensive as possible. So they do not want to include the cost of maintenance, that is also not just a glamorous topic, its the same problem with building the new building building a new building on the University Campus round here. So the short answer is people are aware of it, and again you can get numbers all over the map but i heard Maintenance Cost on a bridge can be around 4 per year of 4 of the stated cost of the bridge. Usually the cost of the bridge also does not include finance cost, finance charges, interest charges and support so these numbers can be very misleading, very unrepresentative what the real cost is. So the short answer is yes people think about it. Deuce people do anything sensible about it . No. Everybody who wants to give money to a university often they want to build and put their name on it they dont want to janitors closet with their name, thats what keeps the building, thats where the lightbulbs get changed, thats where it gets cleaned. You mention bridges, i may or may not have a comment about this but we have a very nice bridge out near south 20. As i understand its a great bridge but it was a very expensive bridge i think 7,000,000 sticks in my head, i dont know that is accurate but it is hard to see where 7,000,000 dollars. I agree and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think that is a disappointing bridge to me because the lines are not graceful. The transitions i should say. The individual lines are nice but you put them all together and it just doesnt live up to what you would expect that kind of money. [inaudible] i guess i have not heard the rumors about that one. There is only one bidder. Will that should be easy to verify if that is in fact true. Thank you very much, its been a pleasure [applause]. If you would like to have your book signed or greet the author he will be over here signing books. You can pay for them upstairs you have them with you thank you so much for coming we appreciate it. [applause]. With congress and its a summer recess, we are bringing new book to be in prime time. Coming up will look at books about infrastructure and transportation. Well hear from harvard professor on her book, move, putting americas infrastructure back in the lee. The discussion. Then discussion from the Los Angeles Times festival of books on infrastructure, engineering and science. Later, the duke Civil Engineering professor talks about the u. S. System of roads and highways his book is throw taken. The road it taken. On saturday beginning at 11 00 a. M. Eastern book tv will be live at the mississippi book festival for the Second Annual literary long party at the state capital in jackson. Author panels feature discussion on civil rights, education policy and Mississippi State history in the 2016 president ial election. Authors include john meacham who has written biographies on president s and former Senate Majority leader trent locke discussing his book on political polarization. Go go to booktv. Org for the complete we can schedule. Next on afterwards, professor Roosevelt Cantor talks about her book move, putting americas infrastructure back in the lee. She discusses some of the successful Transportation Systems around the world. She was interviewed by former transportation secretary, rodney slater. Host professor cantor, welcome. Guest thank you secretary slater. Host im looking for to getting into this book and letting all of our listening audience have the appreciation i have had in just getting through some of the pages and really following the storyline, its a wonderful story lines. What i found interesting is that you start out in the preface talking about leadership. We thinking about a book on leadership when you started . Or . Or how did you get to that . Guest leadership is a big topic and preoccupation and that is what i was going to do but i kept getting struck by this issue of infrastructure, literally not only the facts and figures about what was happening in america and the sad state of much of our infrastructure and the need for innovation and change, but i was also tripping on potholes like everybody is, i was stuck in traffic, i was hearing said stories of innercity people who connected to jobs or had to take two or three buses in the subway to get to school. So that plus going abroad and riding on a train in shanghai where we went to another city. First of all subway connections to the train, the train was so fast we went to another city and 20 minutes. It otherwise would take an hour and a half by bus. So all of those things together made me feel like this is a really important issue. I had already been talking to you. Youre such a help in this project. Id already been talking to you about the need for new vision for america because you have been putting forth a vision just at the end of the Clinton Administration when youre leaving office. Office. Unfortunately the world changed in the 2000s. We had a lot of defense spending and other preoccupations. Then the financial crisis. So we have not made the kind of investments we need to make. I thought this is so important to the future the country and part of the u. S. Competitiveness project at Harvard Business school we really care about making sure america is strong and that also the American Economy and quality of life are as excellent as they could possibly be and once again were leaders of the world. So i put aside what i thought was my leadership book to write this. And then it was really interesting that i ended up concluding that it is all about leadership. There are many other details about its all about leadership and that leadership for innovation, collaboration, big vision, is as important as the engineering. This is not a technical issue. We could do this. We have the do this. We have the Technical Skills in america and affected technology we lead the world, its just that were not always apply in our own strength. So leaders need to step up to this and i started out saying the sorry state of our infrastructure but in fact there are many reasons for hope. We see many great projects. With enough public agitation and discussion which you have also been so active and involved and then we could really get leaders to step up. That is what i wrote a book and so move not only suggest as a title not only suggest its a book about transportation infrastructure, but it also suggests what we have to do in america which is that we have to move. We have to get moving. Host we do and we have to leave again. The subtitle of the book actually talks about putting america back in the leadership position when it comes to Infrastructure Investment. Let me just say this, i want us to actually come back to this issue of leadership because you have a lot to say about that as far as going forward. Lets just unpack it a bit. You do something very interesting in that you talk about transportation is more than concrete, asphalt and steel, you talk about it as a family concern, as a business concern. Lets do that a little bit but let me also ask you about allison, natalie and jacob and how you actually dedicate the book to them and then he really tell us to think about it in some degree from their perspective, meaning Infrastructure Investment and its importance. Guest will thank you, allison, mattie, and jacob are three lovely little children and we need to think about this issue not only for business and the economy but also for the children. I have had the privilege of reading books to those children, including some of their favorites and some of my favorites which i think are really great metaphors for what we need to do. I know know we will get to the real industry policy and all of that. But i wanted wanted to also signal that this is a familyfriendly issue. A high proportion of Household Budgets up to 20 of Household Budgets for an average family of four spent on transportation thats a big deal. But allison, natalie, and jacob and jacob like books like dr. Seuss it all the places youll go. In the middle that book as i was reading it i was startled to see that the characters in dr. Seuss like ways and then it gets to a place in the middle called the waiting place. Waiting for the trains to go, the bus to come, the planes planes to go, it was all about transportation. And so the rest of the book says you have to get out of the waiting place and that its inspirational for kids, you can do it. Well, we well, we have to do it for them now. The other one is the the little engine that could that is truly a metaphor for america. I cannot imagine that book havent been written other places although other places have a generosity of spirit like the little engine, but the little engine was the one that stepped in to carry toys for kids when all the big engines were too busy, too important, the establishment wasnt listening. And so to me, that is a signal that we also have to count on the little engines, entrepreneurs, Community People to Push Congress to do some of the work. So that is why started the book dedicated to them. It is their their future that we are really talking about. Host its interesting that you mention the congress and the president and now we can get a little bit into the policy. I know that yesterday you are part of the kickoff of infrastructure week with the Vice President and with secretary fox. As we get to the end of the month for congresses expanded the transportation bill, this time for the 32nd time, if they have to extend it again it will be 33 times that they have just extended it among the two or six months or whatever. And the call is that we need a longterm plan for Infrastructure Investment. Do you think that its important as we think about moving america back into the leadership post . Spee2 we definitely need long term. Ice can i say that will count on the small engines but the small engines will produce many innovations that will help, but we do need the big engines and we do need longterm funding. When funding is subject to such shortterm fixes then nobody can plan. You cannot really plan to upgrade, maybe you could patch some of the potholes on roads but you cannot have projects that are reinvented. So so for allison, natalie, and jacob it would be for the longterm. But for all of us it is a shortterm issue because of the amount of time we productive time stuck in traffic, the First Responders that cannot get places quickly enough because they cannot move on the roads. The longterm funding would reduce some of the political uncertainty. That would attract more investors. That would be helpful to the Public Sector because if we had more private sector investors it would not all have to come out of public money. But they will not necessarily invest if they think the public side will run out immediately and there is no public will. Theyre looking for longterm commitments. This is both u. S. Private equity which is now looking at infrastructure and the wealth funds from other country, Infrastructure Investment firms, there is money out there that would like to invest. It is not simply politics, is is the uncertainty when it is shortterm fixes. Its not something we want to authorize yearbyyear. Feel the same way about air traffic control. Aviation. When that subject the congressional budget cycles, they can also make investments longterm just even intellectual investments in new technology that is experimental because they might start something and then it is cut off. You know, its interesting. You mention the issue of cost. I thought immediately about how you started off the book really where you say stuck on the way to the future. That is the the first chapter. But this first paragraph and i will not read it all but a couple of sentences are worth reading for sure. The average American Commuter voice a total of 38 hours in hours in traffic per year. This is the average. So for some it would be even higher, this amounts to 5. 5 billion hours of lost u. S. Productivity annually. Those are staggering figures. So youre saying that we all pay and cost when the system is not working effectively. We do, and that is just commuters to work. What about people who are trying to buy groceries or going to healthcare appointments were trying to get to school . School buses get stuck in traffic to. When you get to High School Students there often using the public systems so this really is a huge cost of the Health Care Cost because spending time in traffic it means cars are burning fuel unnecessarily and pollution from those idling cars like there is a study in brooklyn that said 45 of all air pollution is caused by idling cars. Or driving around to find parking once you are in the city. So we have adjusted to some of that although people could play. We should complain. There is a way in which the human mind will not realize that there something we can do about it and wield just kind of normalize. Thats normal. The new normal, lets just build the next hour into the commute. And so leave early, come home late, dont see the family, there are so many costs and consequences so we have to stop. Thats an immediate problem that also requires longterm investment because of all we did was prepare the roads or repair the train tracks which really needed, we still wouldnt be headed for the future because we are growing in population. We need to do something. Host just in that paragraph that i was reading you said that we lose about 121 billion in costs for fuel and lost time and just congestion annually. That is over 70 billing billing for people just stuck in traffic. What about the person says put in a disc and listen to a book on tape. Guest were very good at making sense of something and working around it. But you could listen to that book on tape in your office or at home with the kids. So we were not meant to live in our cars but even if we were because Auto Companies might like to people, the cars became. Host he helped to build the middle class with the automobile. Guest the cupholder was one of the biggest innovation. Cars have become dining rooms for people. But we we do not want them to become living rooms. So its also the fuel, the time, time, the frustration, what about bad weather. I mean there was we have had some really Severe Weather and there is a time i think in 2014 in atlanta where cars could not move because of ice, for 20 hours some people are stuck in their cars. That is really scary. Because aside from cramped space, the heat, people could die. These these are the dire stories, the dire consequences and it does not have to be that way, thats the other method. You dont have to accept this and there are Solutions Many of them are already in place in some parts of the country. Host its interesting we said we dont have to accept it, we have actually never really accepted the normal. This is a country that has always thought that tomorrow could be better than today. You mention the intercontinental rio row, you mention the interstate system. Its not like we have not dreamed it bigger produce big in the past, what you think about this moment now . Its going back to the question of leadership. What are your thoughts there . You touch on many many of these in the book. Guest in the history of really have to look at the Transcontinental Railroad. Many people point to that as the glorious task and why couldnt it be like that today. When when i dug into the history which is fascinating it was not so glorious it because it took decades of discussion and nobody really did it until Abraham Lincoln forced to through. Host even during the time of the civil war. Guest isnt that amazing. There were a lot of compromises that need to be made. It did not work perfectly. The tracks started to be late from the east coast and we