Divide a society into resources. At of the good is a soleil day treat the independent being this with their own happiness. As they fall down industry with a heart attack. We have no obligation. And which responsibilities. And ic that the house has burned down. If they dont have any friends at all. And if there was a government entity. Wants to mike that is one reason you should not be a jerk because if you want people to help you and pete dyes you half to be paid a favor. But i of against the idea oneperson has a need is an entitlement. We think of ourselves as the one developing. But that isnt the issue. Member so play yourself event the issue is a somewhat else if you are sick to say i am entitled and i dont care phase struggle to send their kid to school. I dont care if they try to build cahow their business so i will march of labour to demand they pay for my operation. I have yet to meet one person who said yes that is a i would do. We to ask and understand if they say go no then i go somewhere else. It is id like helping people with the shared need and entitlement. I never unarguable why is. So for the sake of argument if you go to your friend but not before that magnitude. By taking if you pennies from never ready and for those people to help you so you would have to depend on one thread. But those questions of vast economies that they have a role to play. This debate if we get those economies of scale. And to decide if it is worth it to us. Because it is so controlled by government that the insurance serbia as expensive as it is. And it is a combination of progress and innovation. To drive up costs enormously. Spinet thats true. With the health care system. Did to get the bare bones healthinsurance. That doesnt mean networks for everybody. That we need some kind of safety net. Of those that died the early death. Still make history shows that scenario that you talk about this center realistic. It is a or they feel benevolent. Friends or families toward no private charity. The that is the scenario that were talking about. But i will separate two things it is great if we are debating any role of the safety net. So what happens to that one civilian person that nobody can voluntarily help them . And to parade down people. Uh chief proposals are marginal tax rates and up words of sen . 50 percent he said it is the raising money to help the up for to end the fortune of. That is very different to flee leave moral and good different debate over what do we do about those exceptional cases somebody that is in need having trouble finding support. I see that it is morally corrupt even by your own addition. That is very impractical. And with the market changing and that is extraordinarily difficult but there had then a lot of animosity. And hiv2 bring in the ceo pay bet less animosity that shows sports players. The animosity of the progressives can you comment be big part of the reason it is very easy to see the value of laugh braun james. We can see a spectacular player. When a the weird debates is to have a strong opinion how much the ceo should be paid. What does it duplex i have yet to get an answer for most people but nobody knows what that means. Or how much they should get paid. The average pay is 10. 5 Million Dollars that is a lot of money. But when you compare that to the scales of the economy of what they are running or compared to the broad james with his salary last year as they make that money the lead then he being the fact but all that was made by on japan yours and managers it is clear they can make a huge difference. They understand madonna they dont understand co. Speaking that they have an animosity. Itd say lack of knowledge rialto it to be suspicious of business in general. That is what the book is about it is a productive achievement and the biggest disgrace that the superlatives business, what is the most famous term associated acquired. The idea at the even transformed people from my country was totally pour by 1914 the richest country in the world . In large part the actions of rockefeller and carnegie and the people that create the new industries and theyll look at the price of steel and the price of oil, and the cost of what they are producing goes down downtown of. Today and runtime weve had seen a string of any businessman. Even steve jobs. There is a more positive response but you started to hear people say he didnt give a lot to charity. But heres the person to created and Amazing Company making lives better and also help to lift the standards of other companies to talk about the User Experience but because he did not give away that money he was televised. But here is the main message of the book. So what happened to the american dream. One side of the debate has focused on believing in of the rich and india there is to penalize and the average. And the cause of our problems is it justice at every level. So to boil down to celebrate productive achieving a. What do you think of the president ial candidates . Cement betta couple things that we can and do that is controversial, first of all, and all the corporate welfare. Those subsidies are bailouts and to stop putting barriers of those starting at the of bottom. Get rid of the minimumwage. With that insane occupation that is the hairbrained that we talk about. And those such as the ethanol subsidies. To make that easy as possible in terms of education and in nevada where parents are giving more control of light to see more vat and innovators readytoeat of data to see education become cheaper and more effective for all americans. And then uh governorship change but they can only knockdown of the of their schools . And then the democratic governor cave and said they could and opt out. But then then is concerned of their lives. And i do roquet my family does pretty well and i have a three yearold daughter and four yearold son. Basically the inequality critics when i try to give them more opportunities i am doing something wrong there pursuit of happiness is more important and i think that is outrageous. Each individuals life matters to him and the people he loves and cares about. Even if it is justified the least you can say is the american ideal with and without Economic Growth . The net overall the most productive to be the most free nation overall. But there are things and our country that our better. In certain ways there is more Economic Freedom i think there is more Economic Freedom. Pet does have it greatest amount of pentup opportunity. Living in that opportunity rich society is not easy because you are not entitled they do have to take responsibility youre not guarantee that job for life see you have to be learning and trying and going out there to get your old to make something of your life. A lot of people in this country, dont want that. That want to be taking care of and security. So if we have a society with a limited necktie because here it is where you have that life and devotional and cultural idea of the selfmade man that the end of the day theres Something Special we should be fighting to build upon. Guys agree with that. And with at equality. My pleasure spin hickey genuine patriots it and saw a saw many things going wrong. And said something to the effect that it will be on salvageable. Misguided. Hello, thank you for coming out tonight for this politics, and prose, as we have the honor of hosting daniel hatcher, my name is davis. I work with the events staff. We just have a few quick announcements. First off, that is politics and prose. This is a new partnership, in which we are selling books and hosting events. So youre here, and you can find us at 5th and k. , you can see, different events that will be scheduled throughout the city. Part of that, is now youre in a restaurant and you can order food and drink while hearing a great book talk. Treat your wait staff well. If you will silence your cellphones. After the event is over well have a signing table, and opportunity to chat with daniel. If you will purchase the book at the front of the store. Theres going to be time for q and a and i have this microphone, and if you raise your hand ill come around. The questions that are being asked and also, cspan book t. V. Is here tonight. [applause] you can look yourself up on the web if you and a question. [laughter] so, in this eyeopening exams mission of what happens to medicaid and medicare funds, and public assistance, designed for the ill, and, elderly, exposes how the for profit agencies benefit from government programs. He offers ways to reform policy so that the aid does reach its beneficiary. Mary says, this researched book, he lifts the lid on a system, turns them into a source of revenue. Daniel is a professor of law at the university of baltimore, he teaches the civil advocacy. He was a staff attorney for legal aid. And as a senior staff attorney. Will you please join daniel hatcher. [applause] thank you for being here, especially when its such a beautiful late afternoon, to sit inside and talk about some important policy issues. Thanks to politics and pros, and, huge thanks for the press for the amazing support in publishing this book. I thank the university of Baltimore School of law, and the programs where i teach students, who are representing, clients and then i have the opportunity to learn through my students and i have a couple colleagues who are here today. I also thank my past clients. I have learned so much, what theyre going through, and from an individual basis seeing their difficulties and how their problems connect. So, i hope to keep this informal and have a conversation. I thought i would start, with a comparison. On monday, i was in new york, and talking about a county there, west chester counties, there was a small story in the newspaper about a child whos adoptive mother died of cancer. And the child had Survivor Benefits, for 16,000. The social worker got ahold of the benefits, and got access to the bank account, after she dies of cancer and took the money. So theres some outrage, and criminal charges were brought. The county officials, put out press releases, to talk about their efforts. Meanwhile, whats happening, that is county who has a contract, with a revenue maxima sayings, to not just seek out Survivor Benefits and disability and then the county is taking the money from children, when theyre acting a relationship. Not just 16,000. 10s of 10s of thousands of dollars and no one has been up in arms because no one has known. My hope through getting this book out is to increase awareness. And i think with awareness we can bring change. In the poverty industry im hoping to expose several of these revenue practices where states, and Human Service agencies are partnering with companies, to use the populations as a source of revenue. This is happening i think across the country because states are cash strapped. They have been unwilling to raise revenue through taxation. The states look for money elsewhere, and they are using their own agencies. I have been looking into these issues for quite awhile. Both through past scholarship, and some litigation and policy advocacy efforts. I think it started for me, almost 20 years ago. I was representing kids in the foster care system. I had a huge case load. My first day in court i represented 16 children, so, i still feel some guilt because i feel like i should have done more for those kids. But, i was awakened, to what they were going through, in the system, what they were going through, and how hard it has been when they age out of care. The little receives and the stats are lined up against them, and, ptsd, and twice the level of iraq war veterans. So, this was then alarm to go me when i realized that the very agencies that exist to serve the best interest of foster care children were finding a way to use them as a source of funds, and seek out benefits and control them, as a payee and divert them to state coffers. I started doing some work as well, with lowincome families and Child Support issues, including representing low income fathers, which was eye open to go me. I realized that some similar practices, where they are not only taking that and Child Support, sometimes the same children. Some states i talk about in the book will take more about nebraska, and, burial plots. Theyll take the earnings of a child, if they are old enough to work. So, Child Support is diverted from the childrens best interest, and i started to learn about vast practices that are occurring, with medicaid. So even more dollars that are being diverted. So i wanted to understand, and dig and connect these issues as much as i can. With the book i try to step back and see all these interconnections, and the alarm that im seeing, youre seeing a shift, where you have State Government and the state Human Service agencies, that exist to serve the public welfare, are instead maximizing revenue and hiring companies to help. So, before i get i want to discuss a few of the examples, before i do that. I wanted to stress just a couple themes that i hope come out of the book. First, i dont think the book provides any evidence for arguments to cut aid to those who need the asis stands. Through the work that i have done, aid is drastically under funded and, human agencies are under funded. If you have states, and governments, who die vert it. The answer is to stop the misuse. The other thing i hope to stress and i want to make a point of, i think the vast majority of our frontline case workers are over worked and underpaid. These Revenue Strategies are not happening on the ground, but much higher at the leadership level. At the state level where the governors or the comptrollers offices. So, to talk a little bit more about this practice of how states are using foster children, the way they do this, many states will partner with revenue consult tantds. Maryland does, which is the state where i practice law and teach. Maryland started with an assessment contract, where it hired, them to do a assessment and see how they could obtain more resources and in that report, the company describes children as a Revenue Generating mechanism. They target a hopeful increase, in the number of disabled children, to get disability benefits. And increase it to 1520 of the children. The goal was not to provide Additional Services to help them but to divert those funds to general state coffers. So when this occurs, the agencies arent even benefit. I dont think foster agencies should be in the business of funding themselves from taking money from abused children. They are not getting any more the states ruiz funding, so, its becoming a self funded foster care system where children are forced to pay for their own care. They also seek out Survivor Benefits, under the Social Security programs these are earned when we work, and pay into the system. We earn disability benefits, and Survivor Benefits, and like life insurance. So i represented a client, a former foster child, who this issue happen to him. When he was placed in foster care at age twelve, he was moved around to several different places, for him. They located a brother. His brother dies. They locate his father, and his father was a potential resource and then his father dies. Everyone, in this poor kids family is dying, and the Foster Agency realizes that, the boy is entitlessed to a survive vor benefit. They never tell them, and they never tell them that theyre applying to take over control of the money. They never tell them that they were taking the funds. This money, alex, aged out he struggled ever since. Hes been homeless, and he could have used this money to plan for his transition. Its not just the money, but it could have provided an emotional connection. And he could have had that, to help himself. The state took it. Thats happening nationwide. States, will take veterans assistance benefits. So, the list goes on. So, some of the language, i sent out several requests, and kids are described as, resources on a conveyor belt, being described as units, Revenue Generating mechanism. Scored, to see which ones bring in the most money. Goal of increasing the penetration rate of children whose resources can be obtained. I see documents, when they determine which kids to be disabled first. Not the ones who have the most needs but the most money. Those kids who might have the other sources of federal aid, they wont go after them first. Theyll go after the kids, that is costing the state more money. Thats saving the state more money when they take the funds. Its all about the money. And not helping the children. Another example, so, this is just one, maybe starting with an example where medicaid funds are being maximized and some states are divert it go. So you could have the same foster child, who are low income, and disabled can receive, in their schools, medicaid to provide Additional Services for special education needs. So i describe an example out of new jersey where the state forces schools to participate in a program. They have a different revenue contract, Public Consulting Group where they are required to work with the contractor to maximize the amount of children who are receiving it, in the amount of aid thats received. Schools are punished if they dont meet the target goals. It gets complikatted, the state and their budget items, it is diverting over 80 from the schools, to general state could have fears. Tens of millions of dollars, that are being taken from School Children to save state coffers. They are unwilling to raise enough revenue, and looking for money elsewhere, taking money from disabled School Children. New Jersey Schools are so underfunded and they are selling advertise meants on the sides of school buses. So thats another example. And firsting homes, in this country are not doing well. The quality of care, is not great, in the united states. Some states are much worse than others. Maryland, where i live, sometimes the richest state and number two, gets a d. Grade. Many states will then divert the funds from that intended purpose to provide better care totallerly, and general state coffers, or municipalities do it. So, one thing i describe is out of indiana, where it is happening statew