Advanced analytics and Machine Learning for companies. So were very excited about that. If you want to check out more, we are a dub dub dub. Thats espresso dot com. Its like espresso but without the ethos espresso dot com and were h so check us out without further ado that was my psa for the evening. Im going to pass this to perna, who is going to introduce our special guests for the evening. Awesome. Thank you, andrea. Im like, should i sit . Thank you so much, everyone, for coming out tonight. It is incredibly just wonderful to have our Community Come back together again for inperson events. I think this is our first, like andrea said, our first major year in in real life event. Weve done a couple during a couple of virtual ones during covid and its actually very fitting that our first inperson event, postcovid, is none other than whips own cofounder and board chair. Deblois yes, please give us a. Deb on top of doing so many Amazing Things in life, is also the ceo and president of ancestry. So please welcome her up and going to have an amazing conversation. Deb, thank you so much for joining us today. Its incredible to have you here in person, in flesh. Thank you for the invitation. And its great to actually see real people. I have not been in in person with events in two years and i forgot to mention the reason why were here all tonight is because deb wrote this book, take back your power. Deb, what an amazing feat. I mean, as if you werent already busy enough running a company of 5000 people, spearheading women and product on top of being a busy mom. Like, i have no idea how you do it, but tell us why. Like, why . Why a book . Why now you know, actually i opened with a story with the whip chapter leave of new york, which i met several years ago. And we were having dinner and, you know, at this dinner we got together and we were talking about how often we were actually mistaken for the assistant when we were there, someone who works for us. You know, every one starts talking and suddenly youre cut out of the conversation. And i told the story, but i used to speak at money 2020. The biggest payments conferences youve, fintech, you know, biggest conference. And i used to keynote the second day, but on the first day i would go walk around with my head of partnerships. And of course, you know, you have a conversation with someone, you just meet. And suddenly i noticed that it went from a triangle the three of us talking to me being cut out and then having a conversation with each other. So how many times does that happen to you ladies . Okay, this happens a lot more suddenly. They kind of say, well, you know, shes probably not the leader, because if youre playing the odds, hes probably the leader. And we were telling stories to each other at this dinner and everyone had had this experience. And we said, you know, and then we said, well, why dont we ever say anything . And when somebody said, why dont you make it awkward . And then we decided at that dinner, were going to make it awkward. We were going to raise our hand and, you know, because if theyre going to assume we, the assistant, we should raise our hand to say no, because then it shows that were leaders and that that one person is going to realize that maybe the leader looks like us. Instead of the guy next to us. And thats the opening story, one of the opening stories, this book and for all those times when we just say we dont want to make it awkward, right . We dont we dont want to be difficult. We dont want to stand up. And you know, have someone say that were too aggressive and were giving away our power because then they can assume this persons a leader. And by the way, i used to keynote the second day and everyone came to talk me after because they knew that. But i just remember thinking, well, maybe i you know what . If they thought was rude and i think all of us felt that way. And after that dinner, like, were going to do this, i just remember that. And it was a mantra for me. It was make it awkward and like stand up. And this is a story about taking back your power because this happens to so many women. Im super powerful women who are underestimated. And so many times we have to have the men around us, the other women around us actually say, no, shes in charge or, you know, you should listen to her. I love that dinner. I still remember to this day. And there is like i mean, also just some amazing women around that table. And but i think what was really crazy was just how many of us had stories to share, like each of us could, like, at least come up with one or two examples of how we had been kind of like overseeing because we didnt look like the leader in the, in the room. I know youve done a lot of research into the book. Youve had so many of your own personal experiences as youve talked to several women and you know, you i think youve also brought in a lot of Academic Research what themes have you seen kind of emerge from all of this research, from all these stories . Rick, regarding unconscious bias and what what are you seeing like water what are some things women are up against in the workplace . You know, i think the one thing is when were in school, theres level playing fields, right . You you take test you know, you get your s. A. T. Score. Theres a class rank and we just feel like things are fair. And then you get into the workplace and the first time it hits you is when you get you dont get promoted or someone gets a higher rating or you dont understand why youre feeling. And a lot of it is unconscious bias. Its not discrimination. It is these really small things. So ill give you a small example. So i did a study in Tech Companies and they said for a man to be considered a leader, he has to be considered confident and competent. Right. But for a woman, she has to exhibit both those behaviors. But she also has to be seen as warm. That is absolutely not fair, because there are more men and there are not more men and theyre warm women and theres not more women. But women have this extra thing they have to do. And if youre not a woman whos seen as warm, you are actually punished in the workplace. Youre just seen not as a leader. Now, is that fair . Absolutely not. But at the same time, we only get to do we only get to choose what we do about that, because i wish i could change that right. If i had a magic wand and i said, okay, this is not a requirement that would be amazing and we would all want that. But we dont run our companies. We dont were not in charge. And so we have to live this requirement. Now, what does that mean . That is it. You know, and i think and the reason i wrote this book is first, we didnt even realize it was this extra hurdle. And then once we realized that we have to do extra work. And so how do we deal with that . But i use this quote from chuck sandall, the book. It says, like, life is 10 , what happened to me and 90 what i choose to do about it. And for a long time i was not very warm. I was not very outspoken. I didnt know what to do. I said, you know what . What does that even mean to be warm . So i worked with my career coach and she said, you need to kind of read the and understand how people feel. And i said, i feel like when i walk into a room, i just i need glasses. Like i cant read the room and shes like, youll get better at this. And it took me a long time to really understand how people were feeling, but its just im not a natural person whos very warm or empathetic. And i worked at it like it was a skill that is absolutely unfair and its absolutely part of the reason im here today is because i was willing to work on it. And so i wrote book because it is hard, right . Its not fair. But at the same time, we live with this reality and we only get to choose how we act within it, how we help, other women, how we change the rules when we get there. But until then, we had choices. And our choices are sometimes do we play the game or not. And its not an easy choice sometimes. And so i was i want us to be realistic about that. And as you the studies, its true across a number of the various, for example, men and women now negotiate just as much, which is amazing. It used to be women negotiate a lot less, but men get a raise 20 of the time when they ask and women get it 15 of the time. Is that fair . Absolutely not. But you know what . You get if you dont negotiate zero and so the distance between 15 and 20 is absolutely unfair. Distance we zero in 15 is way more so lets go ask. So ask for a raise. Ladies will do a workshop. Were doing workshop. Well do a workshop. I can. But i think, you know, sometimes kind of focused on the 15 to 20 and i absolutely want to close that gap. But if we dont raise our hand and ask, were from zero, you know, can we get going from 15 to 0 . So lets go do it. I love that im curious i mean you were talking about, you know, sort of the feedback that you got that you werent warm enough, which is absolutely a tracy sitting right next to you. But im curious like what like were there what tactics like what what did you actively do to like you know, address that feedback . How, how did you become a warm person . You know, that was really hard. Its really because my husband, like i was telling husband, i went to the Seattle Office right before covid and i said, you know, as i was in the Seattle Office, all these people came up from my old teams and came to hug me and and hes like, you let people you i know hes like, i dont like to be touched at all. And and i and i realized that over time, i got much more comfortable with who i am with people around me. But it had changed so slowly that until he pointed that out, i was like, oh yeah, guess youre right. I never. And even he had no idea that i had changed so much at work because doesnt see that. And so i realized that it was it was a Little Things it was taking a moment and saying how is she feeling now or how is he feeling . What does he need . And i was just in my own head like i was one of those people, super type a, you know, check all the boxes. I said, if i just do all of these things. And i realized it was something a little bit different, which is really my coach actually helped me with this. She she said, dont watch the movie in your head. Try to figure out what movies playing in their head. And at first im like, what does that even mean . Because i just didnt understand it. She said, you know, in your head youre kind of playing like, what you want to say, how you reacting, how youre feeling. But if you actually project yourself and say, well, how she feeling like, you know, how does part of feel after being you know way for so long and coming you know being on television the first time were doing this you know but really kind of empathizing and saying you know what do you how are her feelings then how do you project your reactions to that other person that really helps me kind of really merge the movies into one because i think sometimes when youre talking youre actually talking at each other and not with each other. And so i got a lot better at it, but it was a lot of work and it took years. But the one thing that was different and the thing that changed about me was i used to think that being an introvert was just who i was. And now i treated all of this like, skill, like i can learn these skills i dont have be an extrovert, but i can learn the skills that extroverts bring to the table. And i can be more successful. If i can adapt faster such solid advice, i feel like theres just all these wisdom, like just being dropped i want to kind of like shift a little bit to going back to talking about power. You know, we have roomful of women and some men here in product and. I think whats really interesting about being in product is like this whole like adage around like influencer without authority, right . And were talking about power. Were talking about, you know, exactly the same that were supposed to be really good at. So im curious, what is something that women misunderstand about their power and what can we do to, like, overcome . I think the thing we always forget is we have way more power than think we do. When you walk into that room, you get to decide what youre going to do in there. And i think sometimes, you know, i my friend Caroline Sasaki calls it ridiculous, unintentional, ridiculous strategies like you would never, you know, go into a room and say, im not going to say anything at this meeting. Im not going to pitch my idea or im going to back and kind of just listen or, you know, im im going to on the energy of the room by founding the whole time. You just dont choose to do those things. But how many do you walk out . You just did that, right . Someone well, why are you upset . You know, why were you frowning . And i realized that theres this this sense that we have of, you know, were not making intentional choices. Sometimes were sitting back because we feel uncomfortable. And that moment is you say, you know what, im going to choose at this meeting, im going to do x and commit yourself. All of you have goals. I mean, you are amazing product leaders because you have goals you have metrics. What if the metric, how influential you were, how many times you spoke at the meeting, how many times you pitched your ideas and if you measure yourself on those things, how would you do and . I think sometimes we kind of give ourselves this what we call the free pass over chapter on the free path, which is we sit back, but you miss 100 of the shots. You dont take. And so if you dont pitched the idea, it doesnt get pitched. You know, if you dont speak up and fight for what you think, right . For the company strategy, it doesnt get. And so in a lot of ways, you withhold your power and youre actually taking away your own power and allowing someone else to do that. And so instead actually saying, im going to be intentional, im going to make this choice and im going to measure on it. Thats why it makes your products the big thing. And that could be what makes you amazing in the room. Weve talked a bit about kind of the idea of like this. It wasnt who you are and you know, you had to work towards it. Im curious like in terms of you like looking over all of these experiences youve had, you being early days people and managing a team at facebook, what was, you know, in your mind, one of the biggest sort of stumbling blocks that you to face. And how did you overcome that obstacle . I think my biggest block was, you know, i didnt really know what i wanted in my career. And i actually almost left a few times. So when i was at paypal, i had my first child and my husband was an executive. He was a, you know he was a manager, a director at google. And was doing really well. And i felt really like i had a child i left my team because my second in command took over and i did want to take the job back after six months. And so i kind of drifted. I worked in corporate strategy. I created social commerce and charities, verticals of paypal, but was kind of working part time. And i was just frankly bored. Like, this is a very in story. I was really bored and i was like, is this it . Is this what i want . And so i went to the vp, i worked with and i resigned and. I said, you know, im leaving tech and he said, no, im going to get you another job. And he called me a couple of days later and hes like, i you the job heading the buyer experience at ebay. I was like, what . And suddenly i was doing this new job and i was really, you know, reinvigorated. But i had gotten into my own head, which was like, i just dont feel it. And than unlocking myself, i kind of just said, im going to quit. And fortunately he went out of his way to say, i know you have more talent and you have more in you. Im going to help you find something without sponsors like that and could never have could have opened up to another another chapter which case i led the buyer experience at ebay and then i got the interview with facebook. Then, you know, i had a second child and i went there. I was on maternity leave, you know, and so really just, you know, i think there had been moments when i said, you know, i just want quit this game. But, you know, i think these are the things that are the most difficult in your career, which is youre going to hit stumbling blocks, going to get passed over by you, know its going to work for somebody whos your peer. Youre going to have just like a crappy job you dont love. Youre going to have a bad. And the question is, you only get to choose what you do with it. And so i call this stumbling blocks to stones. And so, you know, youre blocks are going to stock units stub your toe, its going to suck. But you can use that as a stepping stone to the next thing. It could be the best thing that ever happened to you. But i kind of got in my head and i let it not be. And then i had reframe that and say, okay, this was an opportunity. And luckily i had amazing sponsors and mentors to help me do that. Without them, i probably would have quit tackling multiple times and. So it is that kind of thing thats really, really important. I love this idea of allyship and the fact that your manager, who is male like was like, no, no, im not going to let leave. We have a couple of men here, the room, which is amazing. Thank you for coming. What can would you give to to the men in the room how they can continue to support their female colleagues and, how they can continue to, you know, promote them . Well, i think the first chapter is a lot of research about, unconscious bias in the workplace, like none of this is like very rarely is it just people like jerks or being terrible. Its these small things built up over time, you know, things like office, housework, expectations like, you know, discrimination against like motherhood is one of the biggest biases. If you say that you work at the pta, you have volunteer pta, youre like 70 less likely to get hired and offered 10,000 less. Right. Because they just think that doesnt happen to fathers. Okay, thats just the reality. And theres so many of these Little Things that i think we just dont see. And its the workload, its those types of things. And i think that the most amazing allies are the ones who are like, i see you, i see the playing field. Youre on and i cant fix everything, but how can i help . And those are the allies that have really made a huge difference in my career was when i was just really struggling. I might i had my third child who had colic for about a year and my dad was in hospice and my manager at the time said to me, i said, i just dont know if i can do this. And he, you know, look at your peers, all of the executives we work with, they all have ways to stay at home, including myself. And i thought, whats and he goes, you cant do this alone. Like, why do you expect to be able to this when if you look at a lot of our peers and he named a bunch of people, hes like, this is what their life does. And i guess i had never really thought about it, you know, that they had a whole support system. And i was thinking, wow im really family. So one of the things ive been doing is like sharing some of the support i have. And by the way, the interesting feedback is people ask me like, well, dont you feel like you missed your kids childhood . And i read it too much. I read some of th