Transcripts For CSPAN2 Hearing Focuses On Federal Agencies I

Faced by number of inspectors general from various federal agencies. A commitment to change. Independent oversight by both the Inspector General and congress is critical and necessary ingredient to positive, constructive change. For example, the macs approach to Disaster Response changed only after Hurricane Katrina revealed at the shortfall in this operations. Consistent ig and congressional scrutiny to the problem and the administration and fema leadership committed to change the matter to respond to these events. As a side and the super storms and response, fema dramatically improved its Response Operations as a result. Tsa was likely confront with the need to change as a result of dramatic and troubling shortfalls this covered by a covert Testing Program as well as other oig reports about deficiency in key essays judgment of risk in relation to expedited screening, said airport employs a managing the access badge program. It was only through ig oversight, oversight by this and other committees, and key essays new leadership strongly embracing a message. Tsa at last publicly acknowledged the need for change and started the long road to becoming a more effective organization. Finally as of this committee well knows the wellpublicized protective failures by the secret service resulted in hearings and investigations by this committee, by my office and by the independent protective mission panel. This oversight resulted in excruciating process of examination and selfexamination which is by no means over about the man at which the secret service does business. As a result of the secret service has taken steps to fix some of the systemic issues that has plagued the east agency over time. Oversight the government better and fosters positive change picked a critical and skeptical review of programs and operations acts as a disinfection to ensure a more efficient government. It works in conjunction with the Inspector General act requirement that igs Keep Congress fully and currently informed of problems, abuses and efficiencies within the department. I think the committee for its leadership in championing the ig empowerment act, support the Inspector General community and the cause of vigorous and independent oversight. I would also take a moment to thank my staff who is creative, energetic and im proud to lead in this effort. My office will continue to conduct independent oversight over dhs programs and operations, although significant progress has been made the department continues to face longstanding persistent challenges in overseeing and managing its Homeland Security missions. These challenges affect every aspect of the mission from preventing terrorism and protecting our borders, Transportation Systems to enforcing immigration laws, ensuring disaster resiliency and securing cyberspace. The department is continually tested to work as one entity to achieve its complex mission. They key to sustain gates made thus far is a leadership commitment by the new administration and continued thoughtful but vigorous oversight by the congress and my office. Mr. Chairman, this concludes my testimony. Im happy to answer the questions for you or other members of the committee. Thank you. I now recognize myself for five minutes. Mr. Horwitz, let me start with you. The testimonial subpoena authority was something that we helped to champion. Did that make it into the bill or why didnt make it into the bill . Did not, unfortunately, despite tremendous efforts of yourself and Ranking Member and pushing it. My understanding was the department of justice continued to object to the very end and in order to get the bill passed the senate it had to be removed. We hope and look forward to working with you again, and we will not walk away from this easily. And at least personally im going to help champion district will make another run at it again but i do believe the inspector shall need the ability to compel testimony. We had a frustrating case where somebody was being approached and then they just like on a piece of paper said i hereby resign and handed it to somebody. Just stop by leaving the employee, the employment of the federal government they could just simply walk away from all this disaster that theyd cost. I do believe the inspectors general need to have the ability to compel testimony, particularly for those investigations that you are doing. Do any of the others wished to shed any light course any light or personal expenses within your purview that would eliminate this problem further . Ill just mention the two examples that a public in our reports and that a significant programs are, review of the handling of 702, highranking fbi official refused to cooperate with us because he had retired and that wouldve been an important interview to have in connection with our review of the president Surveillance Program back in the 2005six time period. The former attorney general and the former deputy ag refused to speak with us because they also had left. At that time. And there are, i could give you innumerable examples where we do our administrative work and have similar situations that you just refer to yourself, mr. Chairman, which is resignations on the eve of testimony and our inability then to get the evidence we need. From a peace corps perspective, our employees are all term limited. So after five years a time out there and so if you want to speak with them after that period of time theyre no longer a Government Employee pick it makes our job a lot more difficult. Very good. I really do appreciate you bring up the idea of whistleblowers. In fact later this afternoon we have a hearing specifically on whistleblowers and they do need to have access to communicate network with Inspector General but also members of congress, and we take that very, very seriously. I want to just in the last minute and after that i have come what are the things were deeply concerned about, were testimony throughout the last couple of years about sexual misconduct, sexual assault, the varying degrees of penalties. One of the more stark examples alike to use is within the department of justice, because if you look at the department, even within the department of justice they have different tables of penalties, different definitions. I think that is a congressional challenge for this committee. And something we do plan to address. If you can eliminate or shed any light on challenges or things that youve seen that you think we should address aluminate as a tie to deal with this problem in making sure we get rid of these that apples, does anybody have an example or something they can shed some light on . As the committee is aware from our review on the Law Enforcement component of the Justice Department and as the chair mentioned, we found these wideranging different uses of the penalties, the terminology. Were about to go forward with a report about how the Civil Division handles these issues and it will again show a unique approach, different approach, by another component of the Justice Department. And i think one of the things thats very important as a Sexual Harassment become something that needs to be addressed forcefully and clearly, is coordinated, highlevel approaches. They cant be decentralized within an agency. It cant be left to 30 plus components and adjusted to decide what three different ways they will approach it. Because the memo comes from leadership on zerotolerance. And surf leadership is the one out that policy and is expecting too great that culture, they need to look at that and try that throughout the organization equally. My time is expired. I now recognize Ranking Member cummings. Mr. Dahl, and thank you for being here. Mr. Doll, you raise two issues that really caused me to pay super attention when you raise the issue of out the job corps. Without getting into any confidential information that you cant disclose, some point i would really like to talk you about that because that is a serious problem. You may not know it but i had a nephew who was brutally killed about five years ago, shot to death in norfolk. And i would just like to talk to you about the job corps, because id like to know that young people that are going into the job corps are going to be safe. The other thing is drugs. Five years now, Bernie Sanders and i and others have been working on the high price of drugs and the fraud schemes that i didnt know you all got into that kind of stuff. But i really would like to follow up on that. Mr. Roth, we understand that the number of Inspector General received phone calls from patrol official on friday january 13, 2017. Some director with them while others receive voicemails. But the message was the same. The jobs will quote temporary. Mr. Roth, i understand you received one of these phone calls. Can you tell us specifically who called you, do you know . Yes, i got a call from the head of the dhs Transition Team about 7 15 that friday night. And can you tell us what that person said . Its along the lines of what it is that you summarize which was that i would be allowed to stay through the change in administrations, but that would be temporary and that he had assumed i was already in the process of looking for another job. Did the trump official indicate that they had any concerns about your performance . No, they did not. How long is your current term supposed to go . I serve at the pleasure of the president. So i can be removed at any time by the president with obviously three days notice to congress. And so were you surprised by the call . I mean, what was your reaction . Yes, i was surprised by the godgiven sort of the tradition that inspectors general are not removed from office typically or historically. So i immediately, immediately of course called Michael Horowitz and pulled him out of a hockey game on friday night to report this information. Was he playing or what . [laughter] spin it was a capitals game so i hope not. Certainly not. [laughter] we have obtained the transcript from a voicemail left by a trump official with another Inspector General. The voicemails that adequate, im calling on behalf of the president ial Transition Team to inform you that you were being held over on a temporary basis, continue working in the capacity of Inspector General following the inauguration. So that is also consistent, telling the ig that his position is only temporary. Mr. Horowitz, you are the head of the ig, correct . Thats correct spec can you please tell us about how you learn about these calls . The first call i got was from mr. Roth. As i was stay of the hockey game. Spoke to him from the game, then got word of two other igs who had received similar or had received calls that he think im not sure when i knew exactly what they had heard, and we arranged a call for saturday amongst several of us in the ig community, including the three igs who got calls. Several additional individuals, Inspector General buller, myself, vice chair city, vice chair of the ledge committee, to try and understand who got calls, who didnt get calls come in part because all three igs reported that they were told that all igs were going getting the call. That woman got on the call saturday morning, more of us were on the call had not gotten calls and had gotten calls. And so were trying to figure out what was going on here, and different people of three individuals who got the calls got varying, got that sort of core information as well as some other information just from the dialogue back and forth. And so what we really tried to do that weekend, and it was a holiday weekend, it was the Martin Luther king holiday weekend, we set about trying to figure out how could we reach out to transition officials to understand what was going on, given the calls three people got, the fact that the message was all igs were going to get the call but not all igs had gotten calls, at least at that point, and just try to better understand how we were. How would he igs feeling about these calls . What was the sense of concern . I think its fair to say everyone was concerned without knowing more what was the message here. Was this a message like mr. Roth got about planning to move on . Was it some Miss Understood that should we just didnt know enough. Would you tell us what happened, with the chairs indulgence, tell us what happened over the next few days and what did you do, what did others do and out did you express this concern to the trump team . Certainly. Had to be clear ive learned a lot more tuesday when we came back to work, because Tuesday Morning was a monthly ig meeting. So all igs got together at 10 a. M. On Tuesday Morning. Can you speak i will talk about what i knew over the weekend until i got to tuesday. Until on monday we learned of oy the three calls. We reached out to the various contacts we each had on the call to people we thought who could try and connect us to other people to get to the trump Transition Team. We didnt have any clear lines into higherlevel trump transition folks. We had contacts that are agency level Transition Teams. We were really looking go beyond that. Candy tells how many igs of the call with a voicemail . By Tuesday Morning after the cigie meeting, im guessing, but i dont have an exact number, im guessing its upwards of six to 10. Can you get that information back to us if you dont want . Yes. Mr. Horowitz, as a close i understand someone seemed to inform las some of the igs that a decision had been overruled by higher level of a fish within the trump team. Who informs you of that and what were you told . And im just curious. So on monday, i believe it was, we heard back from staff with this committee, majority staff for this committee, that they had heard through the contacts with the Transition Team, or the contacts and the senate Homeland Security Governmental Affairs Committee Contact with the Transition Team that the call should not have been made, it was a lowerlevel decision that had not been vetted at a higher level, that there was no plan to remove all igs, and that the igs would be getting calls, the igs who got calls would be getting calls to let them know those call should not have been made. To you all have anything in writing saying that . I dont. We will try to see if we can get you something in writing spirit if i could just add please do. Tuesday morning, that also on i think either sunday or monday, and ig had gotten a call from mr. Mcgann is now the white House Counsel do you know who that ig was . The federal election commission. A new mr. Mcgann because he had been a member of commission at one point, providing her with the same message that we had heard come that i had heard on i think it was monday from majority staff. Okay. I then got a call this past friday from mr. Mcgann consistent with what he had told the ig at the fec that we be reaching out to me to essentially say the same thing to me that he had told her on that Martin Luther king holiday spirit will try to get the ig something in writing because i think its very important that they have that document. When you, to peoples jobs and their families and their welfare, but more importantly their morel and their security, i think its important that they have a document saying that that is something of the case, and we work to make that happen. They give very much mr. Chairman for your indulgence. I really appreciate it. Mr. Farenthold. Thank you, chairman chaffetz. And i want to shift a little bit of dollars and cents questions here. Mr. Roth, i know that in your statement you draw attention to wasteful acquisition programs. Its something we here in congress all the time how government spends a whole lot more money than it should acquiring things. And takes longer to deploy them and deliver less capability than promised. Obviously you can look within the department of Homeland Security, the tsa and their puffer machines and warehouses full of equipment that either doesnt work, doesnt get deployed or both. What all are you all doing to reduce waste in acquisition . Certainly one of the things were doing is an increased emphasis on acquisition reform and acquisition auditing. Thats what of the things we really didnt have the capability of say three years ago, and thanks to congress appropriating additional funds for more ftes we are able to actually focus on this issue more than we had before. So thats what aspect of what were doing. The other aspect of what we are doing is to try to ensure legislation that will put guidelines in place for the department of Homeland Security as to the major acquisitions, what they have to do increase reporting both to the ig as well as to congress to ensure that major acquisitions continue on track. Really our emphasis is on for the auditing of these programs. Including what we call life cycle auditing which is we dont wait into all the money is spent and then we say you just wasted a billion dollars on an acquisition. We go in sort of while the requirements, for example, are being developed and then later on during the course of the acquisition to ensure that it is on track. You talk about billions of dollars. Theres been 11 years and 1. 5 billion spent on an i. T. System for the use citizenship and immigration service. And youre still using a paper system there, and actually, Inspector General<\/a> and congress is critical and necessary ingredient to positive, constructive change. For example, the macs approach to Disaster Response<\/a> changed only after Hurricane Katrina<\/a> revealed at the shortfall in this operations. Consistent ig and congressional scrutiny to the problem and the administration and fema leadership committed to change the matter to respond to these events. As a side and the super storms and response, fema dramatically improved its Response Operations<\/a> as a result. Tsa was likely confront with the need to change as a result of dramatic and troubling shortfalls this covered by a covert Testing Program<\/a> as well as other oig reports about deficiency in key essays judgment of risk in relation to expedited screening, said airport employs a managing the access badge program. It was only through ig oversight, oversight by this and other committees, and key essays new leadership strongly embracing a message. Tsa at last publicly acknowledged the need for change and started the long road to becoming a more effective organization. Finally as of this committee well knows the wellpublicized protective failures by the secret service resulted in hearings and investigations by this committee, by my office and by the independent protective mission panel. This oversight resulted in excruciating process of examination and selfexamination which is by no means over about the man at which the secret service does business. As a result of the secret service has taken steps to fix some of the systemic issues that has plagued the east agency over time. Oversight the government better and fosters positive change picked a critical and skeptical review of programs and operations acts as a disinfection to ensure a more efficient government. It works in conjunction with the Inspector General<\/a> act requirement that igs Keep Congress<\/a> fully and currently informed of problems, abuses and efficiencies within the department. I think the committee for its leadership in championing the ig empowerment act, support the Inspector General<\/a> community and the cause of vigorous and independent oversight. I would also take a moment to thank my staff who is creative, energetic and im proud to lead in this effort. My office will continue to conduct independent oversight over dhs programs and operations, although significant progress has been made the department continues to face longstanding persistent challenges in overseeing and managing its Homeland Security<\/a> missions. These challenges affect every aspect of the mission from preventing terrorism and protecting our borders, Transportation Systems<\/a> to enforcing immigration laws, ensuring disaster resiliency and securing cyberspace. The department is continually tested to work as one entity to achieve its complex mission. They key to sustain gates made thus far is a leadership commitment by the new administration and continued thoughtful but vigorous oversight by the congress and my office. Mr. Chairman, this concludes my testimony. Im happy to answer the questions for you or other members of the committee. Thank you. I now recognize myself for five minutes. Mr. Horwitz, let me start with you. The testimonial subpoena authority was something that we helped to champion. Did that make it into the bill or why didnt make it into the bill . Did not, unfortunately, despite tremendous efforts of yourself and Ranking Member<\/a> and pushing it. My understanding was the department of justice continued to object to the very end and in order to get the bill passed the senate it had to be removed. We hope and look forward to working with you again, and we will not walk away from this easily. And at least personally im going to help champion district will make another run at it again but i do believe the inspector shall need the ability to compel testimony. We had a frustrating case where somebody was being approached and then they just like on a piece of paper said i hereby resign and handed it to somebody. Just stop by leaving the employee, the employment of the federal government they could just simply walk away from all this disaster that theyd cost. I do believe the inspectors general need to have the ability to compel testimony, particularly for those investigations that you are doing. Do any of the others wished to shed any light course any light or personal expenses within your purview that would eliminate this problem further . Ill just mention the two examples that a public in our reports and that a significant programs are, review of the handling of 702, highranking fbi official refused to cooperate with us because he had retired and that wouldve been an important interview to have in connection with our review of the president Surveillance Program<\/a> back in the 2005six time period. The former attorney general and the former deputy ag refused to speak with us because they also had left. At that time. And there are, i could give you innumerable examples where we do our administrative work and have similar situations that you just refer to yourself, mr. Chairman, which is resignations on the eve of testimony and our inability then to get the evidence we need. From a peace corps perspective, our employees are all term limited. So after five years a time out there and so if you want to speak with them after that period of time theyre no longer a Government Employee<\/a> pick it makes our job a lot more difficult. Very good. I really do appreciate you bring up the idea of whistleblowers. In fact later this afternoon we have a hearing specifically on whistleblowers and they do need to have access to communicate network with Inspector General<\/a> but also members of congress, and we take that very, very seriously. I want to just in the last minute and after that i have come what are the things were deeply concerned about, were testimony throughout the last couple of years about sexual misconduct, sexual assault, the varying degrees of penalties. One of the more stark examples alike to use is within the department of justice, because if you look at the department, even within the department of justice they have different tables of penalties, different definitions. I think that is a congressional challenge for this committee. And something we do plan to address. If you can eliminate or shed any light on challenges or things that youve seen that you think we should address aluminate as a tie to deal with this problem in making sure we get rid of these that apples, does anybody have an example or something they can shed some light on . As the committee is aware from our review on the Law Enforcement<\/a> component of the Justice Department<\/a> and as the chair mentioned, we found these wideranging different uses of the penalties, the terminology. Were about to go forward with a report about how the Civil Division<\/a> handles these issues and it will again show a unique approach, different approach, by another component of the Justice Department<\/a>. And i think one of the things thats very important as a Sexual Harassment<\/a> become something that needs to be addressed forcefully and clearly, is coordinated, highlevel approaches. They cant be decentralized within an agency. It cant be left to 30 plus components and adjusted to decide what three different ways they will approach it. Because the memo comes from leadership on zerotolerance. And surf leadership is the one out that policy and is expecting too great that culture, they need to look at that and try that throughout the organization equally. My time is expired. I now recognize Ranking Member<\/a> cummings. Mr. Dahl, and thank you for being here. Mr. Doll, you raise two issues that really caused me to pay super attention when you raise the issue of out the job corps. Without getting into any confidential information that you cant disclose, some point i would really like to talk you about that because that is a serious problem. You may not know it but i had a nephew who was brutally killed about five years ago, shot to death in norfolk. And i would just like to talk to you about the job corps, because id like to know that young people that are going into the job corps are going to be safe. The other thing is drugs. Five years now, Bernie Sanders<\/a> and i and others have been working on the high price of drugs and the fraud schemes that i didnt know you all got into that kind of stuff. But i really would like to follow up on that. Mr. Roth, we understand that the number of Inspector General<\/a> received phone calls from patrol official on friday january 13, 2017. Some director with them while others receive voicemails. But the message was the same. The jobs will quote temporary. Mr. Roth, i understand you received one of these phone calls. Can you tell us specifically who called you, do you know . Yes, i got a call from the head of the dhs Transition Team<\/a> about 7 15 that friday night. And can you tell us what that person said . Its along the lines of what it is that you summarize which was that i would be allowed to stay through the change in administrations, but that would be temporary and that he had assumed i was already in the process of looking for another job. Did the trump official indicate that they had any concerns about your performance . No, they did not. How long is your current term supposed to go . I serve at the pleasure of the president. So i can be removed at any time by the president with obviously three days notice to congress. And so were you surprised by the call . I mean, what was your reaction . Yes, i was surprised by the godgiven sort of the tradition that inspectors general are not removed from office typically or historically. So i immediately, immediately of course called Michael Horowitz<\/a> and pulled him out of a hockey game on friday night to report this information. Was he playing or what . [laughter] spin it was a capitals game so i hope not. Certainly not. [laughter] we have obtained the transcript from a voicemail left by a trump official with another Inspector General<\/a>. The voicemails that adequate, im calling on behalf of the president ial Transition Team<\/a> to inform you that you were being held over on a temporary basis, continue working in the capacity of Inspector General<\/a> following the inauguration. So that is also consistent, telling the ig that his position is only temporary. Mr. Horowitz, you are the head of the ig, correct . Thats correct spec can you please tell us about how you learn about these calls . The first call i got was from mr. Roth. As i was stay of the hockey game. Spoke to him from the game, then got word of two other igs who had received similar or had received calls that he think im not sure when i knew exactly what they had heard, and we arranged a call for saturday amongst several of us in the ig community, including the three igs who got calls. Several additional individuals, Inspector General<\/a> buller, myself, vice chair city, vice chair of the ledge committee, to try and understand who got calls, who didnt get calls come in part because all three igs reported that they were told that all igs were going getting the call. That woman got on the call saturday morning, more of us were on the call had not gotten calls and had gotten calls. And so were trying to figure out what was going on here, and different people of three individuals who got the calls got varying, got that sort of core information as well as some other information just from the dialogue back and forth. And so what we really tried to do that weekend, and it was a holiday weekend, it was the Martin Luther<\/a> king holiday weekend, we set about trying to figure out how could we reach out to transition officials to understand what was going on, given the calls three people got, the fact that the message was all igs were going to get the call but not all igs had gotten calls, at least at that point, and just try to better understand how we were. How would he igs feeling about these calls . What was the sense of concern . I think its fair to say everyone was concerned without knowing more what was the message here. Was this a message like mr. Roth got about planning to move on . Was it some Miss Understood<\/a> that should we just didnt know enough. Would you tell us what happened, with the chairs indulgence, tell us what happened over the next few days and what did you do, what did others do and out did you express this concern to the trump team . Certainly. Had to be clear ive learned a lot more tuesday when we came back to work, because Tuesday Morning<\/a> was a monthly ig meeting. So all igs got together at 10 a. M. On Tuesday Morning<\/a>. Can you speak i will talk about what i knew over the weekend until i got to tuesday. Until on monday we learned of oy the three calls. We reached out to the various contacts we each had on the call to people we thought who could try and connect us to other people to get to the trump Transition Team<\/a>. We didnt have any clear lines into higherlevel trump transition folks. We had contacts that are agency level Transition Team<\/a>s. We were really looking go beyond that. Candy tells how many igs of the call with a voicemail . By Tuesday Morning<\/a> after the cigie meeting, im guessing, but i dont have an exact number, im guessing its upwards of six to 10. Can you get that information back to us if you dont want . Yes. Mr. Horowitz, as a close i understand someone seemed to inform las some of the igs that a decision had been overruled by higher level of a fish within the trump team. Who informs you of that and what were you told . And im just curious. So on monday, i believe it was, we heard back from staff with this committee, majority staff for this committee, that they had heard through the contacts with the Transition Team<\/a>, or the contacts and the senate Homeland Security<\/a> Governmental Affairs<\/a> Committee Contact<\/a> with the Transition Team<\/a> that the call should not have been made, it was a lowerlevel decision that had not been vetted at a higher level, that there was no plan to remove all igs, and that the igs would be getting calls, the igs who got calls would be getting calls to let them know those call should not have been made. To you all have anything in writing saying that . I dont. We will try to see if we can get you something in writing spirit if i could just add please do. Tuesday morning, that also on i think either sunday or monday, and ig had gotten a call from mr. Mcgann is now the white House Counsel<\/a> do you know who that ig was . The federal election commission. A new mr. Mcgann because he had been a member of commission at one point, providing her with the same message that we had heard come that i had heard on i think it was monday from majority staff. Okay. I then got a call this past friday from mr. Mcgann consistent with what he had told the ig at the fec that we be reaching out to me to essentially say the same thing to me that he had told her on that Martin Luther<\/a> king holiday spirit will try to get the ig something in writing because i think its very important that they have that document. When you, to peoples jobs and their families and their welfare, but more importantly their morel and their security, i think its important that they have a document saying that that is something of the case, and we work to make that happen. They give very much mr. Chairman for your indulgence. I really appreciate it. Mr. Farenthold. Thank you, chairman chaffetz. And i want to shift a little bit of dollars and cents questions here. Mr. Roth, i know that in your statement you draw attention to wasteful acquisition programs. Its something we here in congress all the time how government spends a whole lot more money than it should acquiring things. And takes longer to deploy them and deliver less capability than promised. Obviously you can look within the department of Homeland Security<\/a>, the tsa and their puffer machines and warehouses full of equipment that either doesnt work, doesnt get deployed or both. What all are you all doing to reduce waste in acquisition . Certainly one of the things were doing is an increased emphasis on acquisition reform and acquisition auditing. Thats what of the things we really didnt have the capability of say three years ago, and thanks to congress appropriating additional funds for more ftes we are able to actually focus on this issue more than we had before. So thats what aspect of what were doing. The other aspect of what we are doing is to try to ensure legislation that will put guidelines in place for the department of Homeland Security<\/a> as to the major acquisitions, what they have to do increase reporting both to the ig as well as to congress to ensure that major acquisitions continue on track. Really our emphasis is on for the auditing of these programs. Including what we call life cycle auditing which is we dont wait into all the money is spent and then we say you just wasted a billion dollars on an acquisition. We go in sort of while the requirements, for example, are being developed and then later on during the course of the acquisition to ensure that it is on track. You talk about billions of dollars. Theres been 11 years and 1. 5 billion spent on an i. T. System for the use citizenship and immigration service. And youre still using a paper system there, and actually, Homeland Security<\/a> is one of the more tech savvy agencies in the government. I mean, we see the same thing with a system, i. T. System in the va. Whats the big stumbling block in the government to being able to use computers that every corporation and Small Business<\/a> and middle School Students<\/a> are able to do . Well, a couple things. One, the size and complexity of some of these projects are enormous. So when youre talking about the immigration system, these are literally millions and millions of files, the tempo is just enormous. I am certainly not apologizing for them or excusing what it is that they give because they have a paperbased system youve got the airlines, billions of transactions. Youve got Credit Card Companies<\/a> that are able to do these transactions. Use that exxon mobil, a Global Corporation<\/a> that has a reasonable id system but the government cant do it. A couple things. What is there was never a structure in place to do the acquisitions correctly. That was the first issue. The expertise that is getting the personal who understand these and have the ability to do the acquisition i think has been a challenge. And thirdly come the acquisition process itself in the government is incredibly burdensome. I think we need to spend some time, mr. Chairman, and we will continue looking into how we reform that. I want to give the other igs, i dont think any of you guys, agencies except for maybe justice has anywhere near the acquisition budget Homeland Security<\/a> does. Are you seeing similar problems within acquisition of your department . We would just go down the line and start with you, mr. Horowitz. We are doing more and more contract audits and we have nowhere near the contracting that dhs does, but we are seeing challenges at doj. We saw it at the fbi when we looked at that effort to move to a computerbased system for handling all their paperwork. Peace corps . Peace corps doesnt have a large acquisition program, but the contracting function has always been a problem. Its been a management challenge for the past couple of years. The challenge at peace corps is more in line with the staff leaving every two to three, five years. We have a 30 turnover rate per year. Mr. Dahl . Similar to mr. Horowitz. We are finding problems with the contracting and the processes they are using for contracting and the approaches they are using. We issued an audit that we provided to this Committee Last<\/a> year on using time and materials contract long beyond its time and necessity. Pilot, i see them just about out of time, mr. Horowitz, i would challenge you to work within your organization. What is most helpful to us in congress are some concrete recommendations of what to fix i would like to put that on your whiteboard of things to do spin absolutely. We will get you something. Thank you. Yield back. The chair now recognizes the gentlewoman from new york, ms. Maloney. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And id like to thank all of the panelists, and thank you for all of your hard work, and really to build on what mr. Farenthold was sent to cuba formerly valuable work in just the contracting party, over 400 billion the private contracts and you are overseeing the system and making sure that it works well. But recently the president came out with a hiring freeze, and there is no time limit on it. Im just wondering how that is going to impact your ability to do your job, particularly when reports show that your job actually save taxpayers money. The council of the Inspector General<\/a> on integrity and efficiency released a report to the president in 2015 that provided a impressive cost savis that resulted from the work of igs. For example, for every dollar invested in ig, the report said the government has a potential savings of 14. Thats an incredible rate of return on investment. I think that shows freezing your departments or freezing all of you is really going to harm taxpayers. In 2015 the report explained the federal government spent a total of approximately 2. 7 billion on offices of igs which means that from that investment those offices save our federal government approximately 35 billion. These are impressive numbers, correct . Or anybody, want to comment on how the igs have saved money for the taxpayers in the compounds you have . Also, whats it going to be like to have this hiring freeze . I mean, do we have vacant ig posts now that are not failed . How many are not failed . Does anybody know . And what is the impact of this hiring freeze . Just on the vacancies, there are none district nine vacancies of the 36, 25 . The president ial appointed ig positions are vacant. There are two agency level ig positions, and then the architects at the Capital Position<\/a> which is a congressional position is vacant. So there are 12 total vacancies right now in the ig community. In terms of the hiring freeze, it a concern of ours. We were hit very hard to drink sequestration. It did impact our ability to do our work. We were pleased yesterday to see the guidance issued by omb and opm on a hiring freeze in the sense of acknowledging the igs our agency has the purposes of evaluating the exemptions, but that doesnt solve the problem entirely, obviously. So we are looking forward to working with the incoming omb director, incoming and opm, and congress, as we go through the appropriation process. Because youre right, ultimately what will happen if we are reducing and cutting staff and limiting our ability to do our audits is a waste, fraud, and abuse that we root out regularly would be impacted. Is there any place where all of the waste, fraud, and abuse is put together in one report of what the igs have meant to the taxpayer . We do an annual report to the president and post it publicly. Id like to see that annual report, and id like to really suggest to my colleagues that we might look at some type of a twotiered approach in the hiring freeze, that if its an agency that is making the government more efficient saving taxpayer dollars as igs do, then it should have an urgency of being filled and not left vacant. You mentioned president ial igs. Whats the difference between a president ial appointed ig and another ig . I thought all igs were treated the same. They are not . They are the same under the statute in terms of protections and such. The difference is the 36 of the 73 igs are nominated by the president , have to be confirmed by the senate. 37 of the 73 igs are appointed by the agency heads. Isnt tied to the agency . It is tied to the agency. Id like to see the list of which come for the committee. I think the committee would like to see which are president ial in which are not. We will leave this hearing at this point as the u. S. Senate is about to gavel in. You can see the hearing in its entirety. Go to cspan. Org and type inspectors general in the surge box to find it. The senate is expected to debate legislation rolling back obama era coal Waste Disposal<\/a> regulations. A vote may take place later. Now life to the floor of the u. S. 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