Host on your nomination for the internal enemy. Where did you come up with that name . Guest well, this was the term that virginians of the early republic used to describe their slaves, particularly when they felt threatened by a Foreign Invasion as they did during the revolution. And be they would comment that they faced two great dangers, an external enemy and be an internal enemy. It was a very different way of thinking about slavery than were used to encountering. Were used to thinking that southerners thought of slavery as a positive good. But in the early republic, we knew their slaves wanted to be free. So they feared there would be the day when they would rise up this rebellion and kill their mast pers to claim their freedom. Host now, in your subtitle youre very specific about the years youre covering. First of all, what are the years, and why are you so specific . Guest well, its 173728 17721832. At the start is something called the somerset decision, a legal decision in england which declared that slavery was not supported by law in england. And this alarmed many americans, including the leaders of the American Revolution. And it helped to hasten the American Revolution because so many people who owned slaves feared that if they remained within the british empire, that they would be ruled by people who were not thick to the slave system sympathetic to the slave system. And in 1832 because thats when we had nat turners rebellion in 1831. And in january of 1832 theres a very important debate in the Virginia Hall of delegates about whether or not to adopt the program of gradual emancipation. And after a very thorough debate, this was shot down. And never again would virginians debate whether or not to have a program for emancipating their slaves, and instead there would be a civil war over the issue. Host alan taylor, whos your publisher, and did you know that they had submitted your book for a National Book award . Guest its www norton and company, and i didnt know that they nominated me, so the first i knew of it was when i found out i made the long list which is ten for nonfiction. And then i was pleasantly surprised when i made it to the next cut of the final five. Host who called you . Guest i actually got an email, several emails principally from my editor, steve forman. Host and have you enjoyed the festivities this week in new york city . Guest oh, this has been a great thrill. Ive never been involved with the National Book awards before. Everybodys been wonderful, and its very exciting to be part of it. Host good luck tonight. Guest thank you very much. Host thisll be the forty fourth finalist in the nonfiction category. If you were watching booktv last weekend, you saw jill lepore in philadelphia emoting about Jane Franklin. Did you stumble on her . Guest i did. I was reading Benjamin Franklins published papers which are bound in 40 volumes. And hes so fun to realize. Hes such great company. Hes so charming. But every other letter he wrote was to his sister, jane, and id never heard of her, and i was just mystified. How could anybody probably understand this man who ran away from home when he was very young, and the last letter he wrote on his deathbed was to his sister. Shes clearly important to his life. So i did stumble upon her, and i was interested mainly in understanding him, but then i realized, no, shes far more interesting because we know so little about the lives of ordinary people. Host how ordinary was her life . Guest you know, franklins story was he tells it as an allegory of the american rags to riches rise. Her life was rags to rags, and that is an allegory, too, for everybody elses life. Certainly in the 18th century it was very unusual to claim to climb the social ladder the way franklin did, born the sop of a candle maker and ends up a scientist of the first importance. Jane married at 15, she had 12 children. Nearly all of them died before she did. She raised her grandchildren and great grandchildren, and many of them died before she did. The kind of loss she endured was quite ordinary. Host jill lepore, were there any portraits of Jane Franklin . Did she get any of her brothers money or did anything come her way . Guest oh, she had many kinds of joy in her life. She was never wealthy. Franklin took good care of her many this really incredibly sweet way when they were very old, he arranged to have firewood sent to her every weekend